Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
Just asking...cause majority of the population dont even consider it bad, let alone being haraam or one of the major sins.
Sharrabi, don't even start unless you're willing to carry that thought to it's logical conclusion.
What many don't understand is that the act of owning currency means you have wealth that is indexed on interest/inflation.
Some evils really are necessary.
So, perhaps I should bage into HR and demand my pay be done in gold coins...
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
What is the difference? I mean, if in the end you pay the lender the same ammount (or maybe even more)...it seems like this is just a game we play to avoid a word.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
picoico, that still doesn't explain why one would want to get a mortgage.
The issue with currency is not in your control. You would not be held accountable for that which was not in your control.
Mortgages and other interest based transactions ARE in your control.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
I doubt those two are the only groups around, that is if one wants to be part of a group to begin with. Individuality still rules.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
supposedly religious people blowing up people from other sects would be one example.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
Yoiu guys answer questions with questions? 
Ironically, “halaal” mortgages are technically no different from a regular fixed mortgage. Changing words here and there may be good enough and help some people sleep better at night but from a pure financial mechanics perspective there is little difference.
Topic has been discussed before and can be found thru a simple search if you are interested in the discussion that took place then.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
when Allah says in the Quran (verse 2:275) "That is because they say: Trade is just like usury; whereas Allah permitteth trading and forbiddeth usury", He says it because there is little difference in the way it works, but even if u end up paying more to an Islamic financing scheme, atleast it is Halaal....
u cant just go on paying interest or mortage by saying that Islamic schemes ask more money or that (just to convince ur self) they r just the same with different names....
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
^ i never said really said that you should go for Halaal mortgages. I know how halaal they are.
sure many of these topics would have been discussed before, but has the issue been solved? no it hasn't.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
there are people who believe interest is not riba but predatory lenging/usury is. for them whether they take a mortgage does not become a riba issue
now for those who believe that mortgage is riba, then they should not be getting into these transactions, because just switching the terminology or words does not mean that its not interest, and thus by the logic of these ppl, riba and thuis forbidden.
Find out how these companies calculate your payments when you want to buy a house, and how the transaction works. I know people who work for some of these "halal" financing groups and am very familiar with the practices.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
For me at has been solved, for others it probably has not been.
For many it will not be, whether or not the populace at GS reaches consensus.
I mean really what are your options
traditional mortgage
cash payment
‘islamic’ financing
or some sort of rent to own scheme .. which would invariably lead to time value of money and profit for the seller anyways.
people here can take their pick, go talk to their imaam, elders, whoever and make their choice accordingly.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
i had to make a report on islamic banking, its just a scam....its the same as regular banking in its functioning behind the counter ,we thrive on interest coz our economic infrastructure is built that way.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
well the discussion really does end once people start believing bank interest is not riba.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
If I can avoid a mortgage, I will...Inshallah...so far I'm on the right track ;-)
Nobody ever wants a mortgage. People want a house. Most need to loan money to get one.
The point is, LOANING money, and charging for it (not "trading") is identical to interest. Avoid debt at all costs, I say...or move to Japan :-)
As for currency being unavoidable, you can certianly minimize it's use and minimize your holdings. It's not unavoidable...it's just hard.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
THere is this ‘scholar’ Saeed (forgetting full name) who used to come to Irving, TX from Pakistan, last time I heard him he said something like this: “I’ve been coming to US for about 20 years and people keep asking me ‘is mortgage halal?’, my dear brothers if you keep asking for something which is haram for 20 years it won’t become halal” 
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
Supposedly they could be Indian or CIA agents who plant those bombs and naivete and gullibility that so becomes many of us, believe whatever comes out in the media...
10) Believing in everything one hears from the media and turning against each other in enmity and calling names and ridiculing wihtout verifying...(Despite the Quran warning us that never to believe in hearsay especially someone wicked unless verified by our own eyes and ears)...
Where's the famous cynicism that Muslims once possessed? Or do we just listen to someone and say 'we believe'...?
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
Not to worry, it is alive and well. Since you yourself are one to stereotype, you won’t be offended by this generalization: Muslims are among the most cynical of all people. As if it is western, Indian or Jewish media outlets that are making all this up. Surely it can’t be followers of the most perfect religion. 
Your “verified by our own eyes and ears” may have worked when the world according to Islam consisted of a few thousands square miles of desert. But if you think you are going to see or hear every jihadi blowing up a member of a group (or bystander) they disagree with, you will remain the most cynical and blind people of all.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
I would rather remain blind and cynical than accuse anyone blindly because I heard it…
Perhaps the most glaring example of not being ‘blind and cynical’ would be Jesus’ example…Who was crucified because people ‘unblindly and uncynically’ believed everything that was said about him and voted against him versus Barabas to be crucified…
Even Pontius Pilate was aghast at this…Even in the bible, three times he proclaimed to the Jews, what has this man done, but the Jews were ‘unlind and uncynical’ and believed every lie that was told to them about Jesus, so off they sent him to be put on the cross…
Yes…You are right…Muslims are the most cynical people of all…Thank God for that…
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
I guess you have not been listening to the speeches of sipah e sahab, lashkar e jhangvi, sipah e muhammad, tehrik e jafaraia, hizb ul tahrir, mohajiroun et al.
it is all verified by my own eyes and ears. in the 80’s and 90’s especially sipah was very active, and their banners wer every visible at their gatherings, speeches full of hatred for shias broadcast on bullhorns being delivered in shamianas set up on busy chowrangis.
believing everything one hears without verifying is i suppose just as big of an issue as pointing to some invisible forces bogeyman and burying one’s head in sand.
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
it is all verified by my own eyes and ears. in the 80's and 90's especially sipah was very active, and their banners wer every visible at their gatherings, speeches full of hatred for shias broadcast on bullhorns being delivered in shamianas set up on busy chowrangis.
believing everything one hears without verifying is i suppose just as big of an issue as pointing to some invisible forces bogeyman and burying one's head in sand.
Isn't Tehreek-e-Jaafria a Shia org?
And Hizb-ut-Tehreer? Come on Pir Sahib...These guys have hardly ever picked up a stick to beat a dog let alone kill or harm someone...
As for Sipah-e-Sahaba, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi e.t.c., they have made their intentions plain...You insult the Sahaba, you die...It's not like they are lying or manipulating or anything...They are quite upfront about their views...
You said religious bigots and hypocrites, intolerant...OK, so I would take your examples here as intolerant...Although I would hardly categorize Sipah-e-Sahaba follower as a religious person coz' I've not been in contact with any of them...
Why do you know who is a religious bigot or a hypocrite or self righteous?
Re: Muslims: Twisted beyond recognition?
**Isn’t Tehreek-e-Jaafria a Shia org? **
indeed it is, sipah e muhammad and tehrik e jfaria are shia extremist outfits with nothing but hate filled propoganda coming out of their mouths for the most part, sipah e shaba and lashkar e jhangvi are sunni extremist groups.
And Hizb-ut-Tehreer? Come on Pir Sahib…These guys have hardly ever picked up a stick to beat a dog let alone kill or harm someone…
they do have hate filled rhetoric though, same for mohajiroun. hate filled, bigoted words, publications, attitudes..
As for Sipah-e-Sahaba, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi e.t.c., they have made their intentions plain…You insult the Sahaba, you die…It’s not like they are lying or manipulating or anything…They are quite upfront about their views…
yup, upfront about their hateful, bigoted views.
You said religious bigots and hypocrites, intolerant…OK, so I would take your examples here as intolerant…Although I would hardly categorize Sipah-e-Sahaba follower as a religious person coz’ I’ve not been in contact with any of them…
you would take them as intolerant, great,
they are not bigoted?
and are they not hypocrites for preaching one thing and practising something completely different, a most obvious example of this would be Jamaat e islammi and especially its student group thigs in jamiaat, who would wax lyrical about the virtues of a muslim in their meetings and go murder fellow students on the street.
Why do you know who is a religious bigot or a hypocrite or self righteous?
why do i know, the time that I spent in Pakistan, I saw everything from Jamiaat thugs shootign their fellow students, to sipah etc. I could have kept my eyes closed and head in the sand to not know which groups are bigots, hate mongers, I decided to keep them open and see how these groups work.