There indians who think that everything is fair and shining for minorities in India specially Muslims are systematicly discriminated and therfor its their demant that thereshould be reservations but there are thickheaded people who believe otherwise.
Most important is what the Indian Muslims think themselfs.
All muslims in India, who face discrimination in India are more than welcome to come to Pakistan. Pakistan was carved out for the muslims of the sub continent.
But, the question is, how many Indian muslims have migrated to Pakistan or want to migrate to Pakistan even after Babris demolition, bombay riots or Gujrat riots etc. etc?
Re: Muslims of India speak openly about.......
i watched the video, and don't see anything special. it is about whether muslims should be given reservation in the dying indian public sector, along with the backward tribes and castes that currently getting this. from what i know, even their cousins who migrated to karachi are losing govt jobs to reservations for punjabis.
happy heart,
You think this is not happening in Pakistan? During 1971, Punjabis discriminated against Bengalis hence break up of country. And now don't you think there is much more racism in Pakistan than in India? The racists start again and again thread about Quota System. The muhajir elite class dont want local Sindhis who are SOS of Sind to breath Oxygen. For these fricken racists, local Sindhis are Red Indians to exterminate them. They think it is their right to grab and snatch from the mouths of poor rural Sindhis though they have much much great share in not only in resources of Sindh but whole Pakistan. They say Karachi and Urban Sindh belonged to them. Go to Pakistan Affairs look for the facts and fix this problem first befor opening your guns at India.
Re: Muslims of India speak openly about.......
i have no time for this sort of nonsense. Indian muslims are are just fine and know how to take care of themselves. You pakistani people must stop salivating about creating rifts in India because your history has exposed how bad things are in Pakistan for muslims. Sunnies kills Shia and Shias kill sunnies. So the what the heck are you drivelling about?
just plain impotent anger some of you have!
happy heart,
You think this is not happening in Pakistan? During 1971, Punjabis discriminated against Bengalis hence break up of country. And now don't you think there is much more racism in Pakistan than in India? The racists start again and again thread about Quota System. The muhajir elite class dont want local Sindhis who are SOS of Sind to breath Oxygen. For these fricken racists, local Sindhis are Red Indians to exterminate them. They think it is their right to grab and snatch from the mouths of poor rural Sindhis though they have much much great share in not only in resources of Sindh but whole Pakistan. They say Karachi and Urban Sindh belonged to them. Go to Pakistan Affairs look for the facts and fix this problem first befor opening your guns at India.
Niden,
You are no different from Happyheart, who knowledge of India is vague.
What you say about Urdu-speakers snatching ethnic Sindhi jobs in Sindh is utter rubbish. Where are your facts. You need to stop reading RSS bul****, and get an objective source. I take it the Shiv Sena loves Sindhi Hindus in Mumbai.
Happyheart,
Indian Muslims suffer discrimination, thats a FACT. They are more likely to be victins of communal violence. But they are not persecuted, are free to practice their religion and have political representation.
You are no different from Happyheart, who knowledge of India is vague.
What you say about Urdu-speakers snatching ethnic Sindhi jobs in Sindh is utter rubbish. Where are your facts. You need to stop reading RSS bul****, and get an objective source. I take it the Shiv Sena loves Sindhi Hindus in Mumbai.
Khan this topic has been discussed in past many times. Muhajir like you keep on bringing this most sesitive issue again and again only to create hatred between muhajirs and rural Sindhis. Unless parity between the education of Karachi and rural arears is minimized, quota system will stay. You should keep this in your mind.
Karachi educated do not need quota system, their education level is much higher then Sindh Rural and they never relied on Federal Jobs. They are much much better of in private industry or move to foriegn countries earning millions and millions. Bringing up quota system again and again just show your racist mentality. So stop this nonsense racist and hatred agenda on Pak Affairs Forum.
And one more thing, muhajir living in rural areas are also beneficiaries of the system. Don't forget that. You whine about India, pehlay apnay graban main jhank kar dekho ke tum Karachi main kya kar rahay ho. Karahi belongs to muhajirs only my @$$.
Re: Muslims of India speak openly about…
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Khan 15,
You must see this video, your relatives in India struggling for quota system for jobs and in education but you being a muhajir of Karachi doing away with the quota system for rural Sindhis, whose conditions are worse than Indian Muslims according this video. Why this double standards?
Re: Muslims of India speak openly about.......
the debate on quota system in india should be encouraged.....
should muslims get reservations on religious grounds...actually the constitution is against such reservation...islamic clergy says that muslims in india are basically backward...whose fault is....are they stopped by anyone to get educaton etc...
some political parties talk for backward muslims and the islamic clergy supports such reservation for muslims...though islam does not accept anykind of cast based differences among muslims...
Re: Muslims of India speak openly about.......
The reason behind quota for scheduled castes and scheduled tribes was to bring them out of backwardness due to social reasons. For backward castes, it was to bring them out of backwardness due to the economic reasons. Those Muslim castes (a paradox in Islam, which stands for equality - nevertheless in south Asia/India, this exists) which suffer backwardness due to economic reasons are provided reservations under the backward quota. In addition the Indian Constitution provides for the setting up of educational institutions for / by minority communities, where they can practically set all the rules like the quotas etc. The demand for additional 'Muslim quota' is not fair and also not very useful as the government jobs are already shrinking. The solution lies in bringing up more institutions like the Aligadh Muslim University. More and better education can set things right much faster than the additional quotas.
Indian constitution, in clause (4) of article 15 allows the state to make “any special provision for the advancement of any socially and educationally backward classes”. I even accept that large number of muslims need a constitutional methodology aimed to address there problem comprehensively.
The challenge is to identify the muslim who should be entitled to such benefit and who should not, because it must not happen that a muslim with good economic and social status is getting away with the benefits with the condition of poor muslims remaining unaltered.
Hindus have distinct caste system so they were easily identifiable, whereas muslims don’t have such thing, so one possible way is to judge them by their vocation and bracket them to the same benefit, but a proper assessment on the basis of the social and economic condition of muslims should be completed before implementing it. We, Indians should not resort to any hasty measure that may not stand judicial scrutiny.
And also scheme of reservation should be extended to all religious minorities including Islam. We can move forward in this direction but cautiously.
jeetiaf.
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Khan 15,
You must see this video, your relatives in India struggling for quota system for jobs and in education but you being a muhajir of Karachi doing away with the quota system for rural Sindhis, whose conditions are worse than Indian Muslims according this video. Why this double standards?
Niden,
Your post show a complete ignorance of the conditions in Pakistan. I bet, if I asked you to show me Pakistan on the map, you would struggle. You simple don't understand the dynamics of the politics of Sindh.
I also think most Sindhi Muslims would ask people like you to mind your own business, and not interfere in our affairs.
My posts on India have been level headed. The point these Indian Muslims are making is that they are a backward community, and like other backward communities, are asking for reservations. We can debate the rights and wrongs of the reservation system, but since it exists, I see no harm in Indian Muslims asking for it as well.
If I understand correctly, some Muslim communities are already on the reservation list, so whats wrong with putting more communities on the list.
Re: Muslims of India speak openly about.......
you will find a lot of muslims in India who will readily claim they are backward and need quotas. You will find a lot christians in India who will claim that. You will find a lot of Hindus, Sikhs etc too that claim the same thing.
Everybody wants quotas for themselves.
In fact I am waiting for the day when some group claims they are discriminated against because they are not backward and everyone else is.
Stupid people these religions-based quota advocates. Why not just have quotas for allowances for poor and needy, regardless of religion?
Your post show a complete ignorance of the conditions in Pakistan. I bet, if I asked you to show me Pakistan on the map, you would struggle. You simple don't understand the dynamics of the politics of Sindh.
I also think most Sindhi Muslims would ask people like you to mind your own business, and not interfere in our affairs.
I think this is the most stupid reply I ever seen on these forums. Unfortunately Sindhis are not vocal as you mqm thugs are, so what ever you say is the so called truth. Non participation of Sindhi in these forums itself shows how backward are they. Your ancestors came to Pakistan from khokhraparr with ghuthris on their heads, it was Sindhi brethern who opened their hearts to welcome you, perhaps you were not born at that time. Later your acestors claim evacuee properties left by Hindus and so you guys propered. That is your history.
I think this is the most stupid reply I ever seen on these forums. Unfortunately Sindhis are not vocal as you mqm thugs are, so what ever you say is the so called truth. Non participation of Sindhi in these forums itself shows how backward are they. Your ancestors came to Pakistan from khokhraparr with ghuthris on their heads, it was Sindhi brethern who opened their hearts to welcome you, perhaps you were not born at that time. Later your acestors claim evacuee properties left by Hindus and so you guys propered. That is your history.
Niden,
Once again you show clear ignorance of the history of Pakistan. You Hindus murdered and raped the Muslim communities in North India in 1947, and expelled 10 millions Muslims. In 1941, the Muslim poplulation Delhi Territory was 37%, by 1951 it was a mere 5%.
I bet you don't know a single Sindhi, and your concern for them would never extend to apologising for there illtreatment at the hands of Sindhi Hindus during the period Sindh was part of Bombay. Sindhis are very vocal, several Pakistani PMs have been Sindhis.
As I said earlier, if I asked to show Pakistan on the map, you will struggle.
Wallow in your ignorance, as you can't be bothered to have a sane argument. I am sure you are from Maharashtra or Gujarat, areas where the Hindu right flourishes.
Niden,
Once again you show clear ignorance of the history of Pakistan. You Hindus murdered and raped the Muslim communities in North India in 1947, and expelled 10 millions Muslims. In 1941, the Muslim poplulation Delhi Territory was 37%, by 1951 it was a mere 5%.
I bet you don't know a single Sindhi, and your concern for them would never extend to apologising for there illtreatment at the hands of Sindhi Hindus during the period Sindh was part of Bombay. Sindhis are very vocal, several Pakistani PMs have been Sindhis.
As I said earlier, if I asked to show Pakistan on the map, you will struggle.
Wallow in your ignorance, as you can't be bothered to have a sane argument. I am sure you are from Maharashtra or Gujarat, areas where the Hindu right flourishes.
Khan saab, lets not discuss which religion kicked out which religion.
I'm sure you dont want to discuss the case of kashmiri hindus or kashmiri pandits who kicked out of kashmir valley within 2 or 3 months in 1990 for the establishment of nizam e mustafa in valley and there numbers where more than 100,000. And still to this date they cannot go back, the reason being their houses are burnt or occupied by muslims.
Niden,
Once again you show clear ignorance of the history of Pakistan. You Hindus murdered and raped the Muslim communities in North India in 1947, and expelled 10 millions Muslims. In 1941, the Muslim poplulation Delhi Territory was 37%, by 1951 it was a mere 5%. .
Perhaps you are ignorant of history of Pakistan too, read a bit on the massacres that happened in areas within present day Pakistan which had a sizeable hindu population.
As regards to Muslism in Delhi, well they knew Delhi was within India and if they decided to leave for the newly created Pakistan - the homeland for muslims where does the element of explusion come in !!!! You mean to say that after fighting for Pakistan all their lives the mulsims of Delhi would have prefered to live in Delhi :D
I bet you don't know a single Sindhi, and your concern for them would never extend to apologising for there illtreatment at the hands of Sindhi Hindus during the period Sindh was part of Bombay.
In what ways they were ill treated by sindhi hindus,i thought relations between hindus and muslims in sindh were not bad compared to other provinces.In sindh it wasnt uncommon to see hindus and muslims praying together.
Perhaps you are ignorant of history of Pakistan too, read a bit on the massacres that happened in areas within present day Pakistan which had a sizeable hindu population. As regards to Muslism in Delhi, well they knew Delhi was within India and if they decided to leave for the newly created Pakistan - the homeland for muslims where does the element of explusion come in !!!! You mean to say that after fighting for Pakistan all their lives the mulsims of Delhi would have prefered to live in Delhi :D
Aam,
I genuinely don't want to make this about who suffered more at partition. But read Patrick French's book Liberty or Death: India's Journey to Independence and Division. Its by a gora, and details the massacres in Delhi that led to the exodus. Every country is built of the destruction of a community, Washington is built on an American Indian village and Canberra is built on aborignal settlements. Similarly the Indian capital is built on the bones of the vanquished Muslim community, whose pathetic remnant remains, but bulk of it was expelled in 1947. But hey listen, I don't want you apologise for it, but at least accept it. North Indian Hindus and Sikhs have the same denial mentality as the Isrealis. But unlike the Palestinians, I don't want my old village back in Rohtak. This Tyagi Pundit is happy where he is.
Dhanewad