Sorry CoolDude, didnt mean to dominate ur post…
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i still have another article to post…i’ll post it in a new thread.
Arai, if you want more proof, you’re free to visit “historic proof of muslims in america before columbus”
HK.
Let me begin by exclaiming the fact that I do not need to read a 3-page report on someone else's opinion or 'suggested proof' of what they believe.
You need the very common sense you talk about. Like I said before, and like you just mentioned that they may not have been the ones that travelled through Alaska.
CORRECT.
Therefore, how did they get here? THEY got here with the European explorers. That's how. Now, one or two of the sailors, slaves, captives may have been Islamic. No arguement on that. But what about the Captain of the ship? I don't recall any of the captains of any vessel to cross the Atlantic of having a arabic, or middle-eastern name of some sort.
I will agree to say that Islam did arrive early. But it arrived in conjunction with Christianity, and was not the FIRST religion in the America's like how you all would like to claim and are trying to claim.
The first religion was the religion of the Natives. And it is a POLYTHEISTIC religion, a really big offset of being Islamic (Monotheistic).
I have nothing against Islam. But, I have something against people who like to alter history for their preference, and for their sake of pride even when they make it up. Credit is given where Credit is due. What most Muslims try to do is, not did only Muslims now conqeor Asia, Europe, but also the America's, which is ridiculous. I can give you that Islam travelled all over the known world. But in the new-world, it was just another religion carried on with the crew of the ship, and had no sufficient impact then.
Arai
p.s.
For the person who has referred me as a "she", sorry. As much as you would like me to be female, I'm a guy.
By the way.
Of all the articles I see posted.
All of them have an Islamic author, or possess Islamic bias.
It is very obvious, that a Muslim author is gonna convince everyone that it was Muslims who were there first.
Similar to having an American Jewish author write about the "Truths of Islam", so if I quote that.. Does that mean it's true???
Ridiculous to prove something, and using that very something as the proof.
Like proving to an Atheist, and trying to convince me by using quotes from the Bible that there is a God..
If you don't understand what I mean, then you're just another person who is brainwashed by their community's media.
Arai
Arai, if you dont want to read the post dont read it, if you want to close your eyes on the facts close them, want to remain illetrate remain illetrate....
Just because u dont understand something, does'nt mean it does not exist.
If you may. Read this FAKE article I am gonna post.
Truths of Islam.
Dr. Joshua Goboin
Religious Studies
University of Redstone
January 12, 1997
Islam is evil. It was created by a drugged Arab, on opium. His name was Muhammad and he was a great fictional author of the time.
Islam allows the killing of youth and other people of other religions for the sake of fun. And their sole purpose on earth was designed to kill Jews.
Muhammad the founder, was a child molestor and molested every child he saw in sight, because the great God allowed him too, since he was the prophet.
Muhammad married his own children, and was essentially the modern day Oedipus
Now that you have read this, and are totally pissed off beyond belief.
Keep your eyes OPEN. Read it, for it is just ANOTHER ARTICLE that you all like posting.. Go ahead, re-read it.
Now tell me, DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS? IS THIS TRUE? I am sure, if I posted this on many Jewish forums, they would all give me a nice applause.
The point I make is. You can't believe everything you read, and you can't believe everything that is made, on purpose with a bias. In this example, a JEWISH person writing on the truths of Islam. How ironic.
And these articles you all post, do have one fundamental bias. They try to prove something is Islamic, by using Islamic as a method of it's proof.
Yes, open your eyes and read it. I hope you beleive it, like how you believe everything else that is posted. Honestly, sometimes I believe that Islam was a religion designed for lemmings. They will follow anything (etc in this case.. pro-Islamic (even lies) as they get), and sometimes neglect the very truth.
Arai
p.s. If you still didn't get it. The point is to show you, you can't believe everything you read. And what is posted up there, is obviously NOT TRUE. However, if people want to make it true in a forum, should they simply post it, and make it as a reference of proof?
USE YOUR HEAD PEOPLE.
Arai, as you said “use your head”, I am goiing to do that now. OK?
That is just opinion of some person who hates Islam. It has no authencity at all! I can make many many assumptions and stories about jesus, will that make it right and true? NOT AT ALL! Here I will not post anything for you, I will post references, reseach it your self, if you really care. If you really care denying the facts, I think you should care learning about the facts first. Bye.
References:
REFERENCES:
Do your research, don’t deny the facts out of arroganes and ignorence. Please. Take it easy.
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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
arai, its sad to see how narrow minded you are and not even willing to read what people have to write…
read the other thread i’ve opened about historic proof of muslims in north america before columbus.
and i posted the name of a non-muslim source because I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO BRING UP THIS MUSLIM BIAS THING!
Care to read “Saga America” by Barry Fell??
and thats not the only non-muslim source…i dont have time to bang my head agianst a wall trying to convince you of something that you’ve already closed your mind to. But i am a 100% sure that you are asolutely wrong!!
Go talk to some history prof. or something or look for these NON MUSLIM sources and they’ll tell u the same thing. And if you still choose to deny proof…well than no one can help you.
I know what im right on this one and that makes me feel so good
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[This message has been edited by hk (edited November 06, 2000).]
Well, HK. I am glad you are getting some sort of orgasmic experience from this conservation. Although, I never intended to make you feel so great.
Anyhow, I am not competing with you. Nor, am I competing with anyone else. I have nothing to gain from Islam supposedly being in the America’s before any other religion, or before Columbus or for any other religion in this matter. Not only does it not matter, I don’t see what point is to even prove it, even if they had the slightest chance of being here, they never made any significant contribution to make their presence known. If they had, I would not need to look in any references, I would know this from the way I see North America now. And, what I see is, North America, as puppets of the Jews (jews are the founding people of modern day capitalism), and from this I am automatically convicned that Islam had no real significant impact, thus ruling it out, because I know from history, whereever Islam is, it always made some sort of significant impact on the residing society.
If Islam did arrive in the US before any other religion etc. Then it is one fine example of Islam failing even in the early stages of a new world.
However, I beg to differ. I am sure that Islam can’t fail that easily, especially not fail in a new world, where religion is not even know to the society. Heck, Islam went about converting Hindu’s to Muslims, yet they couldn’t convert people with no concept of religion into Muslims? Ironic I’d say.
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Arai
Arai----"orgasmic experience"what do you mean?
If you say it is impossible outrageous claim ,i’ll disagree with you.Is it plausible & feasible within reason &logic _ofcourse yes.
As to question of proving something goes it depends how inportan it is.We all know that obviously islam was not being widely practiced inAmerica in 20 th century ,so there can’t be a trail of papers or archtecture ,but as a theoretical probability ,inconjunction with circumstantial evidenced by these scholars mentioned .it is not improbable either.That is more important than physical proofs!
Now if b/c it makes yopu fell less as a hindu to acknowledge that widespread islam is from one corner of the world to the other,that i can understand.Heck,i didn’t know bosnia,kosovo,serbia ,croatia HAD MUSLIMS TILL 80S & I’M MUSLIM!!
THATS IT!! How dare u say something so disgusting?? Is this what the west has taught you? no Muslim man would dream of saying something so repulsive to a female, its absolutely sinful. I dont have to take such sexist comments from you…Heck i dont even feel sorry for you for your pathetic beliefs
Ur not going to be civilised about this, thats up to you but DONT ever stoop to personal attacks again!! we dont need u or any other non-believer telling us about our origin and history
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[This message has been edited by hk (edited November 07, 2000).]
arai,
There is no call for this kind of behaviour. It is not appreciated and it certainly will not be tolerated, so be warned.
i have to say im disgusted with the sexual remarks made by arai...............what a perverted man!
admin should ban such a dirty minded person.
people like arai are lucky they can hide behind a computer or else i would break his nose.
Arai,
take a chill pill dude.
You got your ass whipped for no reason. No one was claiming that muslims conquered America, just that muslims arrived in America before Columbus. There does seem to be plenty of evidence to support this.
And watch your tone when addressing muslim women. Maybe it's ok on Indian forums to talk like that about sikh atheist women but that's not the case here. Would you make such comments face to face? No, coz you'd get your head caved in. So think before you start mouthing off.
Aria!
I would have answered all your questions regarding Arabs and the Americas, but I didn't want to waste my time on someone that doubts the existence of God. Someone that believes, that his existence is a mistake; an accident by nature.
I am surprised why have these people stressed out something with someone like you, a person who considers him self a natural freak. It's futile to carry on a debate with someone who is confused as you are.
And don’t you EVER use such language towards a Muslim female again. You dare to use such words, because you are behind a computer. In realty you'll get your perverted ass killed.
Even after so much education, you have no manners.
But one can't blame you, since it's in your blood.
We are the Taleban! Resistance is Futile!
Common guys! let's not stoop to Arai's level here. If he wants to feel superior to Muslims let him.
We as a people should not condemn him because of his Hindu religion, even if he did make fun of Islam & it's ppl earlier. For all his faults lets not mke his religion one of them.
But we will definitly not tolerate him because of his shameful & coloueful language. I geuss Mr. Arai wanted to create an impression upon us by his command of t/ English language & that he most certainly did.
I think Mr. Arai should really look up some of t/ refernces by t/ "NON ISLAMIC" authors
before evn venturing in this forum, let alone trying to debate w/ us in such a vile & shameful manner.
thanx for lending me ur support guys...
The problem with aria is:
The idea that "muslims came BEFORE columbu" is really hard for him/her to digest. For non-Muslims, it is like swallowing a whole watermelon in one bite. Which can be very hard. So, he/she got a little carried away with the indigestion lol, that is why she/he had trouble reading the subject and posts that followed.
Arai, we gave you all the references and needed material, go out there and search for your self. You are first in line to criticise us, be the first to research it.
Good Luck. Take it easy.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
Sorry if I am repeating something that might have been posted earlier:
There was a recent PBS documentory on Columbus in which it was stated that he was a student of a Muslim oceanographer. I have seen other documentaries recently on PBS on a Muslim voyager who "reached" the Americas much before the arrival of Columbus. That voyager landed in Brazil, I believe.
"Orgasmic Experience".
First for all, just from seeing everyone's reaction due to this phrase has shown me how everyone in this thread lacks very basic english skills.
LOOK in the dictionary. Orgasmic is synonmous with many other words that are not of sexual behaviour. Before shooting off all your mouths about what I said. Hence, the term METAPHOR (term used to indirectly describe another term)
In addition, The sentence "Orgasmic" came from a reply from what HK said earlier about "feeling so good". Feeling so Good is synonmous with Orgasmic and has NOTHING to do with SEX. The word Orgasmic is used in many contexts without mentioning sex or anything of sexual content. (Since you all LOVE to REFER things, go check your dictionary)
It seems as though before you start generalizing me, my views, and atheism that many of you should start taking some English lessons. And I would suggest, reviewing Hononyms, Synonyms, Metaphors especially. I am surprised many of you can read the Q'uran and not take this for consideration. Since, the Q'uran is full of these speech/language parameter variations.
Another thing.
That is one thing I will respect you Muslims for. For all getting together and attacking the very next person because he said something against the next muslim, without even THINKING what the non-muslim had said. One generalization I can say about muslims is, they JUMP to conclusions.
As for my views, being wrong, idiotic etc. You will only get idiotic responses to idiotic statements.
Islam before Columbus. <- Idiotic Statement
Thus, you will get a response that I will definitely not show you respect for. To take credit from history, transliterate it, twist it and compile it to suit your own needs is wrong.
Afterall, you are Muslims, you're supposed to take everything the way it is the way God intended it to be, and you claim not to change the Q'uran of course, yet you find it perfectly reasonable to alter history. GOOD JOB. Allahu Akbar to that my theists.
Next post. I await for you to all explain to me how Islam was on the MOON before the Americans too.
Arai
p.s.
Western culture has taught me to respect those who deserve respect, what you want to do unto you, is what you do unto others. Simple, and such a meaningful phrase you can base your life upon, without reading ridiculous books.
Oh yeah, someone mentioned me being a "pervert"? Better a "pervert", than marrying my cousin(s).
Another funny thing is, you refer each other as brothers and sisters. Yet, in the very same forums, you guys are essentially trying to 'hook-up', find dates on this also. As I can see from posts as some kid wanting a girlfriend, and someone actually replying saying it can happen.
REALLY INTERESTING the way you guys work.
Also Sanam. You keep mentioning me being Hindu. I guess, you have not taken a brief look at the posts regarding Hinduism and Sikhism in these forums, where I think it's quite defined that I am no where close to being a Hindu.
In addition, since this is such a long message. And everytime I tend to post on pak.org, my messages tend to get very long, and become very time-consuming for me to post. Any message that comes in-regard to this, you can expect it to be ignored, unless for some unusual circumstance, I feel compelled to reply to it.
"Religion is the Opiate of the Masses" - Karl Marx
I forgot to address the ones who “threatened” me.
You want to cave my head in, because I used a word that you only understand one meaning of?? May Allah have pity on you for your limited mind, speech, and language.
Another wants to break my nose.
Wow, is this what Muslims do? They don’t understand everything, they take everything they hear the way THEY WANT TO HEAR IT (in this case, from a non-believer, regardless of what I say, they will negate everything I say).
Now you all want to break my nose, and cave my head in. I wonder if all Muslims when they don’t understand anything that they just resort to violence. Maybe the MEDIA is right?
In addition, I can tell you very well. Face to face, you DO NOT stand a chance.
However, I am not gonna resort into threatening you, since threatening you via the internet is quite useless. Considering you could be very well across the oceans, and seas that it would unrealistic.
However, if you do live in the direct vicinity of Toronto (or GTA). I don’t mind meeting for cappucino so we can talk about our differences.