ok.. What religion do you follow? i follow islam hence i am a Muslim. what about you.. i assume u will answer. unless you are ashmed of the the religion you follow?
Us Muslims are so unfortunate to have these half-educated scientifically illiterate people in our deen.
And yet the same people are the so-called self-appointed thakidars of our beautiful religion. No wonder we are in deep $hite (a clear result of jahalat).
Us Muslims are so unfortunate to have these half-educated scientifically illiterate people in our deen.
And yet the same people are the so-called self-appointed thakidars of our beautiful religion. No wonder we are in deep $hite (a clear result of jahalat).
Just answer his question, what / who do you follow?
Re: Muslims Contribution To Science
burqa!?!?!?
please study the sovereignty of the Arabs in Spain...Thank You! You never heard about it? No wonder...
It were the Moors in Spain BTW. The majority of Moors were North African Berbers and West Africans, Arabs were in the minority.
The Muslims of that age did contribute most by translating what was already known by the Chinese and people from the sub-continent and introduced it to the Europeans who went even further later on.
FYI. Have studied all and that's why it is important to not bring up lies in the name of Islam.
People who talk about Islamic inventions are living on another planet. Because
inventions are common to mankind and not a jagir of a religion. Anyone who says that a motor car is a Christian invention must be out of his fing mind.
The car is a car, not hindu car, not a muslim car, and not a christian car.
Many on this thread have no connection to science, otherwise why on earth they would shout!
-------- We made a donkey cart, donkey cart yeah, donkey cart zindabaad.
While everyone else in the world talks about
---- space travel, and Formula-1 racing,
only an 1diot would keep on bring donkey carts in the middle of a discussion about rockets to mars, and jet liners. And its not even funny anymore.
FYI. Have studied all and that's why it is important to not bring up lies in the name of Islam.
People who talk about Islamic inventions are living on another planet. Because
inventions are common to mankind and not a jagir of a religion. Anyone who says that a motor car is a Christian invention must be out of his fing mind.
The car is a car, not hindu car, not a muslim car, and not a christian car.
Many on this thread have no connection to science, otherwise why on earth they would shout!
-------- We made a donkey cart, donkey cart yeah, donkey cart zindabaad.
While everyone else in the world talks about
---- space travel, and Formula-1 racing,
only an 1diot would keep on bring donkey carts in the middle of a discussion about rockets to mars, and jet liners. And its not even funny anymore.
U know Burqa you are always on edge in discussions. Getting a point across requires a more stable and less sarcastic approach. I know your probably irritated and nauseated to see threads like these popup especially, which can be no further from the truth, muslims today in vast majority are just useless bums with little to no independent and rational thought process. The achievements of a few individuals can be cheered upon but it hasn't made much different in the future of most muslim countries because we are still more concentrated on and enamoured by bragging about personal achievements rather than team effort and moving ahead in cooperation of one another. Everyone looks to be a hero when there are none around.
I can see where you are coming from but your approach needs mended, you will not be able to get your point across to people in the manner you always attempt to. However threads like these are not always useless, they are to be used as a spring board to give muslims of today some direction. We once had direction and good one. We are lost now and we weren't always like that and historical facts such as those mentioned in threads such as these are testament to it. When people realize they fell from a height they try to climb back to it again because they have that affinity as compared to those who have never achieved that before find it lacking at times and are willing to abandon the pursuit of dreams at times and make themselves content with being of a lower grade.
And yes I too get irritated when we dwell too much on such threads and try to fortify our position by stealing credit from the past. People are not fools around the world.
U know Burqa you are always on edge in discussions. Getting a point across requires a more stable and less sarcastic approach. ..
Well I apologize if some of this "Inkishaf" hurt your feelings.
My question to you is! Why would you shoot the messenger. May be the messenger/commentator used sweet approach or a sarcastic one. No one is here to convert or sway the Islamists from their daddy jaan's thinking.
.
1........[these threads] are to be used as a spring board to give muslims of today some direction.
2......We once had direction and good one. We are lost now and we weren't always like that
3...... When people realize they fell from a height they try to climb back to it again
....
USR,
Let me try to clarify some of the points you mentioned. And do remember that none of my comments are meant to hurt your feelings. Instead they are simply shown to state the reality.
So if you are looking for a paras puther, a touchstone that will turn every Muslim into gold, then keep looking.
What direction Saudi had that they lost. I have tabled this question in this thread but there has not been an answer.
Muslims in Punjab, Bihar, Sindh, Saudi, UAE, Somalia, Yemen have been living there for 1000s of years and yet there was no fing invention or scientific achievement. The only exception the British period when some of the Indian Muslims got educated in modern European institutions and got achievements. But those achievements could never be attributed to Islamism.
If you have european schools, raising scientists then the credit should go to European culture.
Why would Isalmists hijack the whole thing?
However Saudis and Arabs in UAE etc. never learned from Europeans either so their scientific contribution is ZILCH for the 1000s of years.
There were Muslims astronomers in the era of Galileo, but they could not achieve the knowledge and conduct discoveries on par with the europeans.
So it is time we quit feeding the lies and myths of Islamism.
unless you want to bring up the same old dead topic that starts like this:
----------- meray dada jaan nain donkey dart invent key thi
While the rest of group is talking about space travel and formula-1.
Thank you.
Well I apologize if some of this "Inkishaf" hurt your feelings.
My question to you is! Why would you shoot the messenger. May be the messenger/commentator used sweet approach or a sarcastic one. No one is here to convert or sway the Islamists from their daddy jaan's thinking.
USR,
Let me try to clarify some of the points you mentioned. And do remember that none of my comments are meant to hurt your feelings. Instead they are simply shown to state the reality.
So if you are looking for a paras puther, a touchstone that will turn every Muslim into gold, then keep looking.
What direction Saudi had that they lost. I have tabled this question in this thread but there has not been an answer.
Muslims in Punjab, Bihar, Sindh, Saudi, UAE, Somalia, Yemen have been living there for 1000s of years and yet there was no fing invention or scientific achievement. The only exception the British period when some of the Indian Muslims got educated in modern European institutions and got achievements. But those achievements could never be attributed to Islamism.
If you have european schools, raising scientists then the credit should go to European culture.
Why would Isalmists hijack the whole thing?
However Saudis and Arabs in UAE etc. never learned from Europeans either so their scientific contribution is ZILCH for the 1000s of years.
There were Muslims astronomers in the era of Galileo, but they could not achieve the knowledge and conduct discoveries on par with the europeans.
So it is time we quit feeding the lies and myths of Islamism.
unless you want to bring up the same old dead topic that starts like this:
----------- meray dada jaan nain donkey dart invent key thi
While the rest of group is talking about space travel and formula-1.
Thank you.
No hurt feelings here, just trying to make your sarcasm more productive because its more degenerative.
Where the heck did shoot the messenger come in here. Lets not even get on this tangent. And how about we try not to use the words Mullah, Islamist, Tribal or Jihadist for the sake of our discussion. It'll render your posts more readible and coherent.
On to your clarifications. I wasn't alluding to some magic potion that will turn around the fate of muslims. However if we take an unbiased and unpartial look at the muslim countries (emphasis on countries not individual muslims) today, we definitely are under-achievers. If you think so too, I am in agreement with you. For all of us to be in such a state, there has to be a common underlying thread to our problems. Even if we do realize that problem there is a lot of hinderance to addressing the issue, would you agree?
I think you went onto illuminate one of the most chronic problems which collectively all muslim countries face, lack of education and a system/infrastructure to support it. Secondly, my own addition to what you said, corruption. Its widespread top down. Islam is about salvation and following the rules set by Allah SWT. Allah SWT never guaranteed that good muslims will always be on top of the world and scientifically more advanced than other nations or cultures or societies. The scientific laws that govern the mechanism of the universe are for anyone and everyone to understand. Some body who is religious or knows Islam is not necessarily ahead in the curve of scientific research. The fundamental purpose of Islam is to secure your salvation in the next world and live by the code of Allah SWT in this world. The best muslim doesn't have to be the greatest scientist neither does the best scientist have to be muslim.
.....And how about we try not to use the words Mullah, Islamist, Tribal or Jihadist for the sake of our discussion.
---- When we talk about treating the disease of "small pox", it is absoltely essential to mention the small pox virus.
---- When we talk about treating the TB, it is absolutely essential to mention TB bacterium.
--- When we talk about treating AIDS, we have to discuss "sexuality" and the use of intravenous needles, and blood transfusions.
Similarly if we want to "honestly" discuss the treatment of Pakistanis involved in terror and other counter productive activities, we must talk about the core of such issues that lies with Mullah, Islamism, and Jihadism.
Hope you get the point.
... However if we take an unbiased and unpartial look at the muslim countries (emphasis on countries not individual muslims) today, we definitely are under-achievers. If you think so too, I am in agreement with you. For all of us to be in such a state, there has to be a common underlying thread to our problems...
If you group apples and oranges for some disease, the answer will be very complicated.
So discuss them individually.
Pakistan has different set of issues and causes compared to Indonesia or Egypt.We must look at the solutions based on our own regions first.
---- When we talk about treating the disease of "small pox", it is absoltely essential to mention the small pox virus.
---- When we talk about treating the TB, it is absolutely essential to mention TB bacterium.
--- When we talk about treating AIDS, we have to discuss "sexuality" and the use of intravenous needles, and blood transfusions.
Similarly if we want to "honestly" discuss the treatment of Pakistanis involved in terror and other counter productive activities, we must talk about the core of such issues that lies with Mullah, Islamism, and Jihadism.
Hope you get the point.
If you group apples and oranges for some disease, the answer will be very complicated.
So discuss them individually.
Pakistan has different set of issues and causes compared to Indonesia or Egypt.We must look at the solutions based on our own regions first.
Yes when we treat a disease have to talk about its causes. This is where you are mixed up or rather messed up. The lack of education and corruption among the masses of Pakistan cannot be attributed to mullahs and jihadists. Providing amenities such as these is the responsibility of the state not community Imams. I grew up in Pakistan and I have heard any masjid broadcast anything against getting educated. Can you tell me how many Pakistani's have opted out of a better education when they had the chance. The problem is our mentality not some mullah going crazy or some jihadist going wild and rabid.
Ever heard of the Maslows hierarchy of needs. You'll notice the majority of Pakistani's are at the bottom level. What we envision occurs at the top level but not without fulfilling the needs of the bottom levels.
Yes different muslim countries have different problems but they are all inter-twined and do have many traits in common.
Yes when we treat a disease have to talk about its causes. This is where you are mixed up or rather messed up....
Looks like you are on a quest to prove me wrong instead of sticking to the topic "Muslim [lack of] contribution to science".
Do you take some pleasure in going off-topic?
..The lack of education and corruption among the masses of Pakistan cannot be attributed to mullahs and jihadists. ...
If you care to read some of the earlier posts, you would have figured out by now some facts about Pak:
-- There are other countries with much worse corruption than Pakistan
-- There are other countries with much worse education standards compared to Pakistan
-- There are other countries who have worse issues with governance than Pakistan
And yet Pakistanis are hell bent on global Jihad.
When you do an un-emotional comparison with other societies, you will realize (one day) that Pakistan's current situation is the result of Jihadism, Pan-Islamo-fascism, and Mullahism.
And by the way the problems are worse with Pakistanis settled in US/EU/UK/Canada even when they do not suffer from corruption, lack of education etc. in their adopted countries. If you ever quit believing in conspiracy theories, you would realize the following and then perhaps update your incorrect application of Maslow's theory.
---- The Daaaktars from Virginia who are under trial in Sargodha were not suffering from corruption, bad governance, and poverty.
---- Daaaktar Affia was not suffering from corruption, bad governance, and poverty.
---- Pig Shahzad was not suffering from corruption, bad governance, and poverty.
They all made choices in order to fulfill their dream to go to Jahannum, and thus they were on path of the self-actualization aka the top of the Maslow's pyramid.
Hope you get it.
Thank you.
Looks like you are on a quest to prove me wrong instead of sticking to the topic "Muslim [lack of] contribution to science".
Do you take some pleasure in going off-topic?
If you care to read some of the earlier posts, you would have figured out by now some facts about Pak:
-- There are other countries with much worse corruption than Pakistan -- There are other countries with much worse education standards compared to Pakistan -- There are other countries who have worse issues with governance than Pakistan
And yet Pakistanis are hell bent on global Jihad.
When you do an un-emotional comparison with other societies, you will realize (one day) that Pakistan's current situation is the result of Jihadism, Pan-Islamo-fascism, and Mullahism.
And by the way the problems are worse with Pakistanis settled in US/EU/UK/Canada even when they do not suffer from corruption, lack of education etc. in their adopted countries. If you ever quit believing in conspiracy theories, you would realize the following and then perhaps update your incorrect application of Maslow's theory.
---- The Daaaktars from Virginia who are under trial in Sargodha were not suffering from corruption, bad governance, and poverty.
---- Daaaktar Affia was not suffering from corruption, bad governance, and poverty.
---- Pig Shahzad was not suffering from corruption, bad governance, and poverty.
They all made choices in order to fulfill their dream to go to Jahannum, and thus they were on path of the self-actualization aka the top of the Maslow's pyramid.
Hope you get it.
Thank you.
Actually I ain't the one whose train has run off the tracks. It was you who created tangents in this thread. The opener simply reinterated past accomplishments of muslims. The opener of the thread never emphasized current achievements of muslims. You threw in the subject of muslims not having achieved anything substantial in the recent century or more. And your reason for this was all muslims are hell bent of jihad and other extremist activities. I think you should recap your posts and your line of reasoning.
So how many of those countries (lets give names here) who are worse in education and corruption than Pakistan have contributed to the advancement of science and made earth shattering inventions. Probably none. So again this means the religion aspect of it has nothing to do with lack of achievement but rather the degeneration of the population as a whole is the contributing factor.
The people whose examples you are giving have no world reputable innovations attributed to their names. And since you've made a case about them being religious nutcases it proves that religion did not get in their way to climb the professional ladder or education. Which also renders your whole argument a moot point. Religious extremism might have been the cause of their downfall but it wasn't a hinderance to achieving a good educational status is life.
So again my point, religious extremism is not the reason for Pakistani nation being abundant with under achievers and jahils. Its lack of education ... all kinds (not just religious). By lack of education I do not mean someone just holding a degree, what I mean is the development of mental capacity and intellect which would be in harmony with the maturity of the rest of the world. I also mean the inability to fathom what is good for them in the long run (and yes religious extremism is not favorable in this context, it is abhorable). Also the basic sense to organize themselves and achieve more by relying on each other i.e. teamwork and collective responsibility. We only take pride in personal achievement not collective achievement.
Re: Muslims Contribution To Science
Who is a Muslim?
BTW - Yes I am still alive?
Who is a Muslim?
BTW - Yes I am still alive?
Bura'i bhi khatam howi hay :)
Just kidding, good to see u back
There is no link between Islam-the-religion and science.
Religions DO NOT allow science. Why? ...
I guess this thread is here just for the people like you who are of the opinion that science and religion can not exist together. If you read you will figure out that science is just proving what religion has already said.
Give me ONE concept that of Islam that was proven WRONG by science? In fact religion opens new door for scientists to explore a step ahead it challenges scientists to leap into things.
People who talk about Islamic inventions are living on another planet. Because
inventions are common to mankind and not a jagir of a religion. Anyone who says that a motor car is a Christian invention must be out of his fing mind.
The car is a car, not hindu car, not a muslim car, and not a christian car.
I dont know if you are not getting it or dont want to get it but no one is talking about "islamic inventions" but about "Inventions by Muslims". Dont put words in other people mouth.
...... ... In fact religion opens new door...
Give me one example where religion has opened doors for Saudis in the last 1000's of years.
Saudis? Are you not the same one who says “Arabs are backwards, tribalists, jahil, jihadists, beardos, mullahs…etc” Allah knows what else you say about them..
So why here do you insist on using Saudia as an example? Why not use the examples of the UMMAH as whole!?
Dude, from WA/PA to Religion forum, you jump from one thing to another, throwing jalebis (instead of answering questions) and just posting random gibberish and when people differ with you, you label them with terms I quoted above.
Give me one example where religion has opened doors for Saudis in the last 1000's of years.
that has more to do with the education, lack of it than anything else. In essence, not following the religion...
btw, are Saudai's the scale for Muslims around the world?
