Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Gosh that seems to be working out well. The US State Department human Rights Report has basicly read the same way since it started 15 years ago.

What we are failing to comprehend is that pictures from Abu Graib were shocking, and that is a mechanism for change in free societies, a free press is a big part of that. What is that same mechanism of change in a country run by a dictator? Not just Pakistan, 80% of the Muslim world run by dictators or unelected leaders. And even when they are elected, often the elections are a sham, or it is decades before the next election is scheduled.

I still have to laugh at the amusement factor here when someone "catches" the US doing something wrong? If all of that energy were redirected at the leaders of the Muslim world, things just might improve.

I guess if we were to only have some video evidence of conditions in Pakistani prisons, we could put it on YouTube or something for the whole world to see. No wait.....

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Our media is free that is why the media was showing the lawyer's protests 24 hours a day live on TV !!!! That is why all the riots, protest, rallyies are shown on TV!!!! That is why musharraf had to come on live TV and apologize to TV anchors !!!

YOu have never seen a Pakistani TV channel in your life and that is why you are making these statements.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

dude... all I am doing is correcting your statementthatthis stuff is not discussed here. It is, and is an ongoing thing.

I can be bothered about the political discussion here, but wanted to set the record straight as it came to whether this has been discussed on the site. and it has.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Actually I watched GEO on the web at the time.

Do you really think the anchors felt free to express their full opinions? Why are so many pakistani news sources located OUTSIDE of Pakistan? Hmm?

Read on:

The Government arrested, harassed, and intimidated journalists during the year. For example, on January 29, the mayor of Mansehra in NWFP killed Sajid Tanoli, a reporter for the Urdu-language daily Shumaal (North) following a report in which Tanoli accused the mayor of alcohol smuggling. The mayor’s brother and son were arrested as accomplices, but he remained at large. On April 21, Pakistani security forces detained and secretly held Afghan national Sami Yousafzai, a Newsweek stringer, who accompanied a western journalist to FATA. Yousafzai was released on June 2. Several local journalists were denied entry to the FATA during the year. On September 9, police in Okara district Punjab detained Sarwar Mujahid, a journalist with the Urdu-language daily Nawa-i-Waqt, following a series of articles he wrote on the ongoing Okara Farms land dispute.
On January 28, authorities brought to court on sedition and conspiracy charges carrying a possible life sentence freelance journalist Khawar Mehdi Rizvi, who was detained along with two western journalists in December 2003 and subsequently held incommunicado for over a month. After reviewing the charges, an anti-terrorism court in Quetta ordered him released on bail on March 29, and he remained free pending trial. In August, the Government dropped the original charges but filed new ones carrying a maximum sentence of 21 years. Trial on these charges was ongoing. Rizvi left the country in December.
Several individual journalists were threatened and intimidated by government agencies for reports that called into question the Government’s commitment to fight terrorism. Amir Mir, who was seriously harassed by the Government in 2003 for an article alleging that the Government condoned the presence of a terrorist suspect in Karachi, was able to republish the story in a book without incident.
Extremist groups also harassed and physically assaulted journalists. For example, on February 24, a bomb exploded without causing personal injuries at the Quetta office of the daily Urdu-language newspaper Jang. The separatist Baluchistan Liberation Army claimed responsibility. On February 29, Shi’a protesters ransacked the Karachi Press Club, injuring a guard, in retaliation for disparaging remarks made during a debate aired on the private television station Geo. Police blocked protesters from proceeding to Geo’s Karachi studios. There were no developments in the 2003 killing of journalist Ameer Bux Brohi.
The Government directly and indirectly censored the media during the year. For example, on May 9, satellite broadcaster ARY cancelled an interview with opposition politician Shahbaz Sharif due to what its executives termed “huge government pressure.” On October 12, Information Minister Sheikh Rashid publicly castigated satellite broadcasters for airing programs “glorifying terrorists” and threatened unspecified action. In response, ARY suspended its popular news program “News and Views,” which had aired a sympathetic report on deceased terrorist Amjad Farooqi. The program was restored on October 25. Media outlets also practiced self-censorship.
On August 31, the Government shut down a new Urdu-language paper, the Islamabad Times, before it could bring out its first issue.
Constitutional prohibitions on ridiculing Islam, the armed forces, and the judiciary and blasphemy laws have been used in the past to censor journalists, although there were no reports of the use of these provisions during the year. On November 11, the Peshawar High Court overturned the 2003 blasphemy conviction of Frontier Post copy editor Munnawar Mohsin Ali, and he was released. Many private media organizations were dependent on government advertising revenue, and two major anti-government newspapers were denied government advertising for several months.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Well, it all depends upon what you talk in which place.

In America a muslim can talk all the rubbish he wants about Musharraf, Pakistan, Iran or Saudia Arabia, but he cannot express his views on Palestine or American imperialism.

In Pakistan its the opposite.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Really Free?

Maybe thats why it was blocked during the Emergency Rule :hehe:

or YouTube has been banned

Dream on

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Stop posting those Abu Gharib photos!

Merc, whose photo is that now on your profile? Not yours again, I presume, else you would have better things to do with your eves than typing it away on this forum.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

i dont know how much freedom of speech is there in pakistan but i can tell you by personal experience that in united states you can speak freely your mind, criticize the president, their religion, their people and you wont be jailed or killed....
people here take the right to speak freely very seriously....

and as far as abu gharib goes... those people were not tortured for speaking freely. you are mixing two topics here... topic at hand is about freedom of speech. the people responsible for abu gharib were dealt with accordingly... or atleast govt and people didnt approve of their actions...

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

are there actually any prisoners in US prisons who were imprisoned for freedom of speech issues? Abu Ghraib for all its disgusting nature, is not an example of that.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

First, show me a channel in the states with so much freedom and free speech as GEO NEws. Regardless of what King Musharraf did to make them shut up.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Whats with all those "terror suspects" who had expressed their anger on US policies and favourized the resistance, but were later on released...Tortured and braind dead they left.
In one point you are right, they werent prisoned in US only, but were kept in hidden places (secret torture chambers and jails) around the globe but made by USA.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

im not disagreeing with the argument. i do feel safer expressing contrarian political views in Pakistan than I used to in the US. however, even the terror suspects you cite had something more concrete than just freedom of speech issues to tie, usually something like connections with some guy who knew some guy etc. While you may argue about whether thats fair, it still isnt just about freedom of speech.

part of why its safer in Pakistan though is that Pakistan doesnt yet have the means to lend a ear to its citizens at the scale the US does.

GEO is much bolder than I've ever seen american mass media to be, credit to them. and if FOX/CNN etc tried something like that Im sure they'd feel some (strictly institutional and legal) pain.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Not bad, I was expecting a different stance on this issue from you. This post comes as a pretty surprise to me.

Yes, many of those "terrorists" had some link to a guy who knew a guy who knew a another guy.... But there are few cases where innocent people in Pak and other countries disappeared on being verbally abusive towards the USA.
Til today no one knows were they are. Those who have been lucky were released after 1-3 years imprisonment.
In these cases you must blame both Pak (or any country supporting these acts) and USA for violating human rights.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Pakistani intellectuals are confused and lose people. They don't understand that freedom of speech that results in cold blooded murder of their generals is really a bad idea. Afghanis enjoy much more freedom to kill their fellow men. And see what a heaven on earth Afghanistan is.

So quote Afghanistan as the ultimate place for such freedoms. And then be ready to be bombed, and shot by petty militants.

In the name of Islam, people want to commit suicidal acts. Americans have understood their enemy, and unfortunately Pakistanis have not.

That's precisely why in Pakistan, Islamic militants will continue to enjoy "freedom" to kill, maim, and destroy innocents.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

I can see by your posts that you're not one of them. But what do you mean by "lose"? Do they do cocaine and have a lot of sex?

[QUOTE]
They don't understand that freedom of speech that results in cold blooded murder of their generals is really a bad idea.
[/QUOTE]

Interesting. How does free speech lead to a death of a general? I'm all ears.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Bro! Not to start a new tit-for-tat thread here. Everyone knows that criminals and militants in Pakistan have a lot more "freedom" to recruit suicide bombers. How do they use this freedom? Obviously they talk and make speeches. Or may be the militant recruiters don't talk, they just find these young chaps, then they give them a bear hug, and boom, the young chap becomes another terrorist. May be you believe in such fiction, may be you don't.

However the freedom to the terrorist speech has long been accepted by ordinary Pakistanis, the intellectuals, and the government officials. And guess what, now all of these chaps are paying the ultimate price.

You think a Mullah radio would have been allowed in America? Heck no! And that's why there is no Swat like uprising going on in America.

If you want to learn, just read up what happened in Waco Texas, or at Ruby Ridge. Yes the Americans paid for it in Oklahoma, but their version of terror sympathizers aka Mullahs are killed or locked up, pretty quick.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Well I wouldn't say they have been accepted by the Pakistani people, just that unfortunately, they have been apathetic and let the government support and give freedom to these terrorists. But that was against India.

Apathy is a dangerous thing.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

I think you have pretty different perception of freedom. You must admit the ABCDs are having a total different projection of Pakistan and It's people. One must have lived there to understand the real story.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

I thought burqa did live there.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

I highly doubt.