Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Alot of are spreading propaganda that Muslims are totally free to speak their mind in America, but in Pakistan people are not free to speak their mind. What a load of horse crap !!!

In Pakistan we are free to speak our mind , to curse musharraf , to curse government on the street !!! Nobody is going to spy on us in paksitan for speaking our mind.

But in America, Muslims don’t openly say what is in their mind. If you say anything the government doesn’t like they will spy on you left and right. They will put wire-tape machine on your underwear if they have to. They will discriminate against you, they will make you feel that you are living in soviet union under the fear of KGB. If you are too open in your views on Israel, they will spy on you.

Remember in America it is an open secret that the government use to spy on americans they suspected of being communists. They also spied on many civil rights movement personalities like Marther Luther King. Now the Muslims are the victims


Report: FBI agent bumped Irvine Muslim with car

By: Associated Press -
IRVINE, Calif. – The University of California, Irvine, is investigating whether an FBI agent bumped a Muslim student with his car near the site of an anti-Israel protest.

Yasser Ahmed, 21, said he noticed he was being followed by a car with blackened windows as he drove a 24-foot moving van on campus Monday night to pick up an exhibit sponsored by the Muslim Student Union.
The exhibit was a mock wall set up on campus to represent a barrier Israel has built in Palestine.

Ahmed said he got out of the truck, stood in front of the car and asked the driver to identify himself.

When the driver of the Ford Taurus wouldn’t speak, Ahmed said he tried to snap the car’s license number with his cell phone.

The driver then revved the engine and began pushing Ahmed back with the front bumper, he said.

Ahmed got out of the way and the car drove off but it was chased by other students on bicycles and a campus police car.

The driver quickly was stopped and identified himself as an FBI agent who was “doing surveillance” in the unmarked car, campus Police Chief Paul Henisey said.

The alleged incident caused “a degree of emotion and concern” on campus, according to the chief.

“There are potential criminal allegations, and we’re still not certain what happened,” Henisey said. “We’re trying to determine if there was an assault and if the vehicle was used.”

“He didn’t open his window and didn’t let me know who he was. He never said anything,” Ahmed said Friday. “All he had to say was that he was FBI or law enforcement and this wouldn’t have happened. I was frightened.”

The agent was “in the course of an investigation that brought him to the campus,” said Laura Eimiller, a spokeswoman with the FBI in Los Angeles.

She declined to elaborate but said the agent was not required to identify himself because he was not making an arrest.

“But I can tell you we don’t monitor students exercising their First Amendment rights,” she said.

“Agents can be led anywhere during the course of an investigation,” Eimiller said. “There is no surveillance being conducted at educational institutions.”

Last year, Muslims protested after an FBI agent was quoted as telling a business group in Newport Beach that the agency was aware of activism among Muslim students at UC Irvine and the University of Southern California.

J. Stephen Tidwell, assistant director in charge of the FBI in Los Angeles, met with students and parents at an Irvine mosque to assure them their community was not being monitored.

Now, “some parents are asking, again, `What’s the FBI doing on campus?”’ said Hussam Ayloush, executive director of the Southern California chapter of the Council on American Islamic Relations in Anaheim.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Because thousands of people being beaten in the streets for voicing their opinions... is truly freedom of speech.

I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet for your blatant racist speech.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

this is not the way u achieve freedom of speech

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

If the US is so free then why didn't they let Aljazeera English channel ?

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Psh.

  1. your measure of freedom consists of having a tv channel on air?
  2. al jazeera arabic is available on satelite already. english was not available because no cable company wanted it.
  3. if you want al jazeera english in america you can make your own cable company and bring it. theres no law saying you cant.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

[mod]there is no need for throwing around nick names for each other. [/mod]

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Another example of US freedom of speech !!!

Right in the begining of the Iraq War MSNBC under pressure from the US govnment fired Phil Donahue because of his anti-war views. There was a systematic attempt to silence mainstream news personalities who were known to be anti-war !!!!

Why wasn't donahue allowed to run his show ?

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

I agree , even the fundamenlist Islamic extremist's bombast venom is more often and too often heard in Pakistan then in the USA.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Please validate your comments..

Also it is easier to talk about bomb blasts, suicide bombings etc in Pakistan.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

So in a way you cheer on the bomb blasts happen in Pakistan. Im impressed I must say.

Yes, the average Pakistani enjoys same freedom of speech as in any state of America. There is no difference between Bush and Mush, therefore there are hardly any differences between their mindsets and ideologies.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

I gotta agree with Brown Sugar.
In Pakistan you can talk sheet about government. or anyone openly without the threat of being under surveillance.
Here in the US, Muslims tell their children not to speak what's on their mind about anything especially about Bush, war or anything that has to do with Islam/Muslims. Who's FISA and wiretapping for? They're not wiretapping Mexicans.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Yup, just ask any Pakistani lawyer… :rolleyes:

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

These lawyers were not beaten for freedom of speech. They were beaten for trying to block city courts. I am sure this is what the happens in america during WTO meetings.

Anyway, this seems nothing compared to what your people did in Abu-ghuraib prison when white US soldiers were electricuting the innocent prisoners

[media]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/AbuGhraibAbuse-standing-on-box.jpg[/media]

http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/abughraib2.jpg[/media]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/AG-8.jpg[/media]

http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/capt6.jpg[/media]
White colonial thug trying to act like a british colonial viceroy

http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/abuse1.jpg[/media]

http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/torta.jpg[/MEDIA]
http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/dogs2.jpg[/MEDIA]

http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/dead-iraqi1.jpg[/media]

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Why don’t you go over to Guantanamo bay or all those lovely prisons your government is maintaining and ask the inmates?

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Those inmates are not human according to the US government.

Coming back to free speech, why is it in Europe one cannot question the Holocaust? Where is the free speech there?

Or how about getting fined for drawing an offensive picture of the Spanish royal family? Where is the free speech there? Of course, there is nothing wrong with drawing offensive pictures of a religion's prophet.

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

Excuse me?

Those Lawyers were beaten as they protested the unilateral dismantling of the highest court in Pakistan! Oooops!

And, perhaps one should look in your own backyard, where worse things have been happening with virtually no press coverage…

The extrajudicial killing of criminal suspects in staged encounters and during torture in custody occurred. Human rights monitors reported that 251 persons were killed in police encounters during the year. Police said that many of these deaths occurred when suspects attempted to escape, resisted arrest, or committed suicide; however, family members and the press said that many of these deaths were staged. Unlike in previous years, there were no reports of police killing suspected criminals to prevent them from implicating police in crimes during court proceedings.
On February 26, police shot and killed Dikhad Butt in Lalamusa. Police said the car in which Butt was riding failed to stop as ordered in connection with a drug investigation; however, family members claimed that police opened fire on the car. Protesters unsuccessfully asked that murder charges be lodged against the officials involved. On March 20, Nazakat Khan died in Khanpur while in police custody. Residents maintained he was tortured to death, while police claimed he committed suicide. Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP) Inspector General of Police (IGP) suspended four police officials in connection with the death. A judicial inquiry was ongoing at year’s end. On August 10, police shot and killed Saleem Butt in Lahore following his attempt to flee when police raided his mother’s house. On August 13, Syed Qutbuddin Shah died in police custody in Mirpurkhas. Police claimed he committed suicide, but the autopsy showed evidence of torture. Murder charges were pending against five police officials in the death. Two police officers were arrested and charged in the August 2003 killing of Zafar Iqbal. On August 18, one of the two suspects in police custody in Karachi burned to death; the other died 9 days later. Two police officials were suspended for 3 months in the September 2003 death of Samuel Sunil. There were no new developments in other cases reported in 2003.
In August, Tabassum Javed Kalyar was shot and killed by police while attending a demonstration. An assistant Sub Inspector, Mehdi Bhatti, was arrested for Kalyar’s killing; however, Bhatti was released without bail 3 days later. Six persons have been charged in the case and an investigation was ongoing at year’s end (see Section 2.b.). No progress was made in investigating the Ranger killings of Okara protesters in 2002 or 2003 (see Section 2.d.).
The Government frequently investigated police officials for extrajudicial killings; however, failure to discipline and prosecute consistently and lengthy trial delays contributed to a culture of impunity.

There were no reports of politically motivated disappearances; however, police and security forces held prisoners incommunicado and refused to provide information on their whereabouts, particularly in terrorism and national security cases. For example, on June 14, unidentified security force personnel detained a British and Dutch national at Lahore University for alleged ties to al-Qa’ida. Despite High Court petitions from their families, police refused to provide any information on their whereabouts. After holding journalist Kahlwar Mehdi Rizvi in secret detention for nearly 40 days, authorities charged Rizvi with sedition and conspiracy on January 28. Rizvi was released on bail on March 29.
MQM-H claimed that security forces acting on behalf of the MQM routinely held its activists incommunicado. Opposition parties charged that the MQM kidnapped and tortured their activists during the March 28 local government by-elections and the May 12 provincial and national assembly by-elections in Karachi.
c. Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment
The Constitution and the Penal Code prohibit torture and other cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment; however, security forces tortured and abused persons, often to elicit confessions. Ordinary courts at times dismissed such confessions. Under provisions of the Anti-Terrorist Act, coerced confessions are admissible in Special Courts; however, police had not used this provision to obtain convictions.
Security force personnel continued to torture persons in custody throughout the country. Human rights organizations reported that methods used included beating; burning with cigarettes; whipping the soles of the feet; prolonged isolation; electric shock; denial of food or sleep; hanging upside down; and forced spreading of the legs with bar fetters. Officials from the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) estimated 5,000 cases of police torture annually; the Lawyers for Human Rights and Legal Aid Madadgaar Project recorded 1,101 cases of torture during the year. At times, torture resulted in death or serious injury (see Section 1.a.). For example, on January 2, police in Choti Zaireen village, Punjab, beat Saifullah Ghangle with a blunt object until he fell unconscious. Ghangla remained in a coma in Lahore at year’s end. Five police officials were charged in the case but none were arrested. On November 21, Naddeem Latif died during torture in custody. Two police officials were arrested in the case and remained in detention at year’s end. There were no new developments in the Rasheed Azam case from 2003, nor were any expected.

Ho humm…

You know, I have been coming to Gupshup for 6 1/2 years, and never have I seen a thread started by a Pakistani talking about torture, deaths and imprisonment in Pakistan! But boy do you guys have a field day with any news story regarding the US. Sort of back to that accountability thing again aren’t we? In the US Guantanamo, and Abu Graib were big news, (and do yourself a favor and read my comments on Abu Graib if they are still archived here) but torture, police murder and annonymous detentions are pretty run of the mill in Pakistan (and most of the Muslim world for that matter). Somehow those visiting here are much more amused and interested when this involves the US. Why do you think that is?

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

We put more pictures of abu ghraib to expose your horse crap about america being the good guys , "leader of the free world" blah blah blah and those who might be against it are the "axis of evil "

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

If you have not seen it, it does not mean it does no exist.

you dont visit pak affairs section much. please drop by and a do a search before you go painting all people with the "you guys" having a field day.

plenty of threads on that topic, somehow those visiting here are oblivious of that. Why do you think that is? :)

and oh yeah...ho humm right back at ya :)

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

There are all kinds of incidents in Pakistan which are covered in the news and even here on Gupshup (dissappearences of people suspected for terrorism---does that ring any bells). It may not be perfect in Pakistan, but there is extensive protest when things like this take place with judicial inquiries and judicial magistrates/bailiffs raiding police stations and releasing people falsely imprisoned and outrages are extensively covered in the press(check the local news sections of most newspapers). This is in stark contrast to things with your government where there is widespread belief that detentions murder and torture are pretty run of the mill for the US govt too if you are of the wrong belief system and/or color but kept tightly under wraps by the government and a pliant press.

We are actually more amused with people who have never set foot outside their counties make claims about places half a world away....now why do you think that is?

Re: Muslims are MORE free to speak their mind in Pakistan then they are in US

is that why fox news never showed those abu ghraib pictures. Is it why the US government tried to hide the pictures and made life a living hell for the guy who exposed the pictures ? LOL:D