if i am not mistaken Talmud is not considered part of the Torah, but “commentary” of it. and it is kept seperate. but jews to accept Talmud to be authentic commentary and practice the man made changes in it with out fear.
like the issue of punishment of adultry in Torah. during the time of prophet SAW, there bought the case to prophet SAW of adultry and prophet SAW asked them what is in Torah, and they showed him the torah with their fingers hiding the verse stating that the adulterers be stoned and said that we dont stone them just some other minor punishment is perscribed. so the punishment was there but they hid it and did not practice it. so most likely with all of their other things they do such as not believing in prophet muhammad SAW is not because they have taken the prophecies about prophet mohammad SAW out of torah but because they knowingly ignore it.
Sure Islam is the religion as per 3:85, but you are reading this out of context as well. Islam just happens to be a “super set” of other religions. Look at the following aya from AL-MAEDA, instead of reading 5.51 and 3:85 out of context.
005.048
YUSUFALI: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
PICKTHAL: And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee.** For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ.**
SHAKIR: And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you;** for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;**
AQ and others, only Allah will let you know if there were any problems with any of the faiths. You and I can not judge Jewish and Christian faiths.
Such a deviated argument. Long Quranic statement is given to try to support this deviated argument and belief.
Let’s not try to get the conclusion fron Quran which is not even mentioned in the Quran. Lets read what is written and not try to read in between the lines.
If Quran is being presented for the evidence then according to this book, no one is considered muslims who does not believe in Quran and its statements.
After the revelaton of Quran previous books are considered null and void. If Allah wanted us to follow Torah..then there was no need for Quran.
We have Quran and life of the prophet (PBUH) to judge any human being even those who call themselves as muslims..
Now this does not mean that we start passing remarks, ridicule or bash someone based upon our judgement.
I do not know why try to muddy the water. A muslim is muslim based on certain rules he/she follows and non-muslims are non-muslims based on their believes.
If billion of people do not want to be called jews then why try something new??
**
005.048
YUSUFALI:
… To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way.
… If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people,
…but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you:
…so strive as in a race in all virtues.
…The goal of you all is to Allah;
…it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;**
Hurry up man! The race is on, and so far you are the laggardy
Where does it suggest Muslims are to be called Jews?
Last line may mean....refer to Allah's rule in case of dispute. (Which I said earlier. Allah almighty will not come to us and tell who is right) OR this does not suggest that in future like during the day of judgement, Allah almighty will reveal the 'big secret' who actually won the race among the muslims/christians and jews and in fact muslims could be wrong and jews were the righteous people!!
They wayt I believe it based on the info I gathered on it.....its like the test questions are already revealed and the answers are also given. Now its up to us who really remembers to follow the rules and who forgets or changes for the convenience.
Quran is already here and its for our guidance in matter of dispute.
Yes to each of us the law was prescribed. Some of us changed it for our convenience.
Still does not prove muslims to be called jews. OR muslims to follow Torah. OR current Torah is for our guidance.
True jews of the past in our view are called muslims though.
If they do, they would’ve believed in ALLAH’S last prophet:saw: and since they do not submit to His command of believing in His last prophet, it is very logical to say that they do not submit to ALLAH.
antiobl, try concentrating on the earlier part of the verse instead of jumping to the latter half....
the first half clearly says that Allah has revealed unto them a book and revealed to Muhammad (saw) to confirm the original books revealed to them, and that we muslims shud judge them according to the book revelaed to us and not according to their vain desires (which they consider as divine laws after distorting the original books)....
actualy i would consider talmud to be jewish Fiqh, as in the implementable Torah. it contains “oral torah” which would be compared with our hadiths, and also tafsir and then fiqh done by jewish scholars. since the oral torah had been oral for a long long time, i suspect a lot of man made things were added in it. and that is the cause of the misguidance of jews.
now some hadith rejectors will come and claim same with islam that the hadiths have caused us to go astray and all, but hadiths were written down within decades of the death of the prophet :saw: but oral torah was written down in 2 CE, thousands of years after musa :as:. so there is a lot of difference between authenticity of oral torah and ahadith.
AQ- According to your translation of that verse Islam means Submission to Allah (as it is written in brackets). Ofcourse it is debateable question that who submits to Allah ?
Like there are few dozen sects in Islam, and every one of them reckon that Only they submit to Allah and followers of all other sects of the same religion possess one way ticket to hell.
So the path to salvation becomes blurry if we go into lengthy details.... Only Allah knows the best
So thats why I am not going into details, The basic requirement upon human ordained by Allah in Quran is do not commit shirk(pray anyone besides Allah, One Almighty GOD)
The righteous jews are acceptable for Allah and they are treated as righteous muslim in Quran in many places.
..........
Just a light example, We used windows 98 then 2000 and now XP. The company recomends that we use the latest operating system because it is '*THE'* best operating system ....But the observers see that there are many problems with people who use the latest OS, they are confused either the OS is flawed or the users are not well versed and 'trained' to use it; either way they stay away from it and stick to windows 98/2000 , just because the latest OS is not upto mark !
all this talk but I only have one faith. Whoever denies the last prophethood of Muhammad:saw: is not submitting to ALLAH:swt: and that’s about it. The jews who are praised are the jews who passed before the coming of Muhammad :saw:
please, try to distinguish the two as I proved the same thing earlier.
^^ You need to look outside a dictionary when it comes to such matters.
It only qualifies as worshipping when you look towards the being as a God. Now go back to your dictionary and find out what God is and then come and say weather we attribute any of our Prophets to a God or not.
