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Originally posted by yahudi: *
**You want facts. Open the search in your web browser, write ‘minorities in pakistan/ find….and you will get many eye opening sites.*
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Ravage, i'll save you the trouble. Open google and type in: 'anti-Pakistani websites'. You'll discover ever-so-unbiased information from there.
heres something indigestable for you, not 7th century…but contemporary!!!-
The conquest of Khaibar was later to become a milestone in Islamic law, known as the dhimma (the ‘pact of protection’) for the treatment of non-Muslims who yielded to the jihad-war without fighting. From this defeat of the Jews of Khaibar, there developed a whole system of laws under which millions of non-Muslims have lived since the Islamic conquests, including vast Christian populations.
**In many parts of the Islamic world today discrimination against dhimmis, traditionally based on the dhimma pact, still applies in one form or another, whether it be for the remnant Jewish community of Iran, the Copts in Egypt, Africans in the Sudan, as well as Pakistani Christians, and others. **
Amrosi bin Nurhasin’s triumphant reminder of Khaibar’has great significance today for all of us, Muslims and non-Muslims. For the Islamists — and like-minded ulemas and mullahs— it means the defeat of infidel enemies, and their humiliation and subjugation. For non-Muslims it stands for centuries of obliterated history and oppressive discrimination as indigenous populations – first as majorities, then as minorities, which historian Bat Ye’or has analyzed and documented using the term “dhimmitude” [Islam and Dhimmitude, Where Civilizations Collide (2002), pp. 37-38].
**Madam, the World Union wishes to recall last year’s Petition to the former High Commissioner [April 11, 2002] by the Christian Barnabas Fund (UK). Signed by over 123,000 persons from 70 countries, it was a request for indigenous “Christian minorities in Muslim-majority countries to be given the same rights and freedoms as those enjoyed by Muslim minorities in Western countries.” A UN truism! **
Gravely concerned at this shameful collective blindness by the international community, we call on the Acting High Commissioner, this Sub-Commission and the CERD, now in session, and all UN bodies – as well as church leaders (Catholic & Protestant), and particularly Muslim spiritual and lay leaders: “to see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart” [Isaiah 6:10] the lamentations of the remnant Christian dhimmi communities who often endure persecutions and discrimination as an inferior, indigenous, religious minority.
**And then there is the modern Jewish exodus from Middle East countries since the 1940s – that “forgotten million,” who had to leave Arab countries, now virtually Judenrein, whether by violent means, or otherwise! They and their progeny now number about 3,000,00, of whom 2,500,000 make up nearly 50 percent of Israel’s Jewish population of over 5,000,000. Our updated written statement [E/CN.4/Sub. 2/2003/NGO/35] provides precise facts and figures: Historical Facts and Figures: the Forgotten Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries. [Also available, a page article of the New York Times, dated May 16, 1948 – the day after five Arab armies invaded Israel. Its title is clear: “Jews in Grave Danger In All Muslim Lands”; and another page on the projected genocide (and The Forgotten Millions: The Modern Jewish Exodus from Arab Lands, (1999)].
Worse, everything is simply denied – even their condition of dhimmitude for over 13 centuries –alongside their fellow dhimmi Christians. Our text contains the words of the then representative of Iraq [Saad Hussain, at the 58th meeting, April 24, 2002] on this typical denial:
“The Arab history, the Arab and Muslim history for fourteen centuries, has not witnessed any harm to the Jews, quite the contrary. The Jews have, and continue to live in peace…they live in Arab countries today in perfect safety…”
He even added that they had been protected in Iraq during the Second World War despite the Baghdad massacres in early June1941 (Farhud) when thousands of Jews were attacked, pillaged and up to 180 slaughtered. In 1969, eleven Iraqi Jews were publicly hanged and scores more tortured by the now-hated Ba’ath regime. Today, barely 30 Jews remain in Iraq out of a former population of about 140,000 In Egypt, there are under 100 from 90,000 in 1945, and not a Jew in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, or Libya – all judenrein.
Less than 5,000 Jews now remain (half of 1 percent) in all the ‘Arab world’ from the “forgotten millions.” **
These are the historical facts and figures. When will the international community recognise this aspect? When will this Sub-Commission act? When will the much-acclaimed “even-handedness” prevail in these marble halls?
Soul, Why don't you read the works of nonMuslim authors like Karen Armstrong or John Esposito and let us know what they say about Muslim treatment of nonMuslims?
nadia,
how much you love to hear praises....even if it is from small time token nonmoslems....
how about going through human rights watch site or amnesty international to know the truth....
btw does Karen Armstrong or John Esposito live in Islamic paradises?? why not??
and Israel is empty of Jews 
, I wonder how they all got there 
Soul Soul Soul (if i say it three times will it go away?)
The truth is simply, that humans are bad, by design and perhaps default, to blanket everyone under one sweeping generalisation is dim, and unreasonable and reduces the probability of your … hypothisis, of being correct.
Listen Dorothy, there is no place like home. The earth is my home, and you, heathen as you maybe are one of my breathren. 
I think its safe from this diatribe that this guy has never come close to actually living in a muslim country.
i for one, inspite of having lived in three pretty hardcore muslim countries with significant expatriate/non muslim populations have never come across the term ‘dhimmi’ before, which according to soul here, is an article of faith no less.
Muscat, Oman, for instance, has a number of Hindu temples and atleast one Church, yet I havent yet come across any ‘obliteration’ of legacies as of yet.
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*Originally posted by yahudi: *
Dear Ravage, you do not know the population figures of your country? Very bad!
In (West) Pakistan when partition trauma was over and people started a normal life, the minority % ratio was over 7 %.
Today Hindus are less than 1.5 % and over all minority ratio is less than 3 %.
You want facts. Open the search in your web browser, write ‘minorities in pakistan/ find….and you will get many eye opening sites.
And pls tell me whom you blame for continuous migration of minorities from Pakistan, the Govt or the Muslim community or you blame both of them.
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but the border with India is closed, Afghanistan is no better, and across the seas theres merely a more brutal ME. Unless you're somehow claiming that Pakistanis abroad are disproportionately Christian, which is simply, and demonstrably incorrect, or you're saying that they were killed off, which is demonstrably absurd, you're implying that they just..vanished.
Did I mention the Muslim aversion to contraception?
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i for one, inspite of having lived in three pretty hardcore muslim countries with significant expatriate/non muslim populations have never come across the term 'dhimmi' before,
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thisis from this very forum, and yor brethren here, knows dimmi/jimmi petty well...
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either u accept islam and enter in our khilafat as muslims....
or u maintain ur faith and pay the jizya and enter the khilafat as 'zimee' citizens....
or the last choice, u face the sword until one of the two prevails....
that has always been the way we muslims have met with non-muslims
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thanx
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*Originally posted by soul: *
thisis from this very forum, and yor brethren here, knows dimmi/jimmi petty well...
thanx
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I guess you're missing the point. The debate is about contemporary Islam, CONTEMPORARY Islam.
Who is the Khalifah of Islam right now?
And are those advocating jizya also advocating obliterating centuries of civilisation...which is presumably what you're worried about, and not the non-muslim equivalent of zakat?
Dear Ravage, You have rejected all facts, descriptions.
Now it is your turn to show something in practical that Muslims are good people on behalf of Islam.
Show something from today’ world and not from some forgotten centuries.
(Usually first you people give a fight and when it comes to some real matters, there is only one typical answer that Muslim folk are not living as per Islam and there is no true Islamic State.)