Muslims Are Good Folks

A very honest opinion by an American…

I wish more Americans had an opportunity to get to know Muslims. Then they would not be susceptible to the silly anti-Muslim propaganda that is floated by some right-wing Christians.

Muslims are good folks. One fellow e-mailed me quite convinced that Muslims lop off the heads of every infidel they meet. I’ve been a guest in the homes of many Muslim friends, and the only thing they lopped off were extra servings of lamb.

People believe such nonsense because they are ignorant of the facts. The oldest Christian communities in the world are in Muslim countries. Some of the oldest Jewish communities in the world are in Muslim countries. The deputy foreign minister of Iraq is a Christian. Saddam Hussein donated $1 million to help build a Christian church in the United States. There are Christians in practically all Muslim countries, and there have been for centuries. I’ve said all this before, but when lies blow strong, truth bears repeating.

Islam, like other religions, has different groups. Some are strict in their observances, and they might be likened to the Christian Pilgrims who settled Massachusetts. But even the most strict – commonly called fundamentalists these days – know that a Muslim is commanded to treat Jews and Christians “as I would treat myself,” in the words of a Hamas leader.

In my travels in Muslim countries, sometimes among the poorest of the poor, I was never panhandled or attacked. As far as crime goes, you’ll find cities like Beirut or Damascus or Amman or Ramallah much safer than most American cities.

Islam is not a religion with a hierarchy such as the Roman Catholic Church. In that respect, Muslims are much like Southern Baptists, only more so. Any group of Muslims can build a mosque and hire themselves an imam, or teacher. They are independent. There is no Muslim pope or College of Cardinals. There are no bishops. When an imam somewhere issues a fatwa, which is a sort of formal opinion on a subject, it is not binding. Like Protestant Christians, Muslims interpret their holy writings themselves and consider themselves answerable directly to God – or, to use the Arabic word, Allah.

Most of the disputes in the Middle East are secular and political. Hamas’ quarrel with Israelis is not about the fact that they are Jews but about the fact that they occupy Palestine. The objections some Muslims have to Western culture are the same as those some Christians have. They don’t like the violence, the immorality, the pornography and the greed. The conflict one sees between the religious and the secular in some Muslim countries is similar to the conflict in this country between religious and secular folks.

There are 6 million or 7 million American citizens who are Muslims. Muslims have been in this country since the late 19th century. If you don’t already, you should make an effort to get to know Muslims. You’ll find that they don’t fit the stereotypes created by mean-spirited propaganda or superficial news coverage.

Racism is a monstrous injustice because it imposes a stereotype on millions of innocent individuals. The only real solution is education and broad experience. It seems to me that God creates individuals one at a time, and it is the human mind that insists on grouping and classifying them. We should resist that temptation.

The oldest Christian communities in the world are in Muslim countries. Some of the oldest Jewish communities in the world are in Muslim countries.<<

Is this guy slow or something. where else were these comunities supposed to be, in China or Nepal? Where Muslim countries are now that si where Judaism and Christianity were born before Islam.

What an idiot. Not all muslims are good people, in fact a large minority of them are much like the right-winged Americans that we so love to demonise.

Both sides of the coin exist of course but all in all (and call me biased on this, it doesn't matter) my feel on this is that most muslims are good people indeed (especially those living in the US) as per my experience.

There are plenty of rightwing and inherantly bad muslims, to suggest otherwise is wishful thinking and very naive. Not to mention stupid. Although yanks are dim, I would like to belive that maybe they can see a middle ground full of no prejudice, be that positive or negetive.
Muslims are people, and like the laws of humanity dictate, not one of them is perfect.

I couldn’t read it after it said "Saddam Hussein donated … "… :rolleyes: Did this guy mentioned what OBL has done in terms of welfare of Christians or Jews? Whether OBL has done good for Christians/Jews or not is not the question, but to bring an example of a person condemned worldwide and show him as “good Muslim” is just a slap I guess.

I agree and confirm that Muslims are good people.
The majority of Muslims are good people, not just because they are Muslims, but they are good like people of any other community.

The article is a real fun. No doubt!
When did Saddam donate 1 million dollars for a church?
Muslims always boast that somewhere in far history Jews and Christian lived a happy life in Islamic States.
The fact is (from our cotemporary days) that wherever Muslims are in majority, the people of minority community start locating some other residence. We must know the reason.

Only people in any position of authority and/or influence may confirm anything.
And I would love to view some of these contemporary studies you have conducted. A worthwhile read, I'm sure.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by yahudi: *
I agree and confirm that Muslims are good people.
The majority of Muslims are good people, not just because they are Muslims, but they are good like people of any other community.

[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you concede as much. Perhaps you should also know that the majority of these good people are also good Muslims, and know a lot more about Islam than you do.

[QUOTE]

When did Saddam donate 1 million dollars for a church?

[/QUOTE]

Does it matter? He was a beast of a man who did not represent muslims in any way except being the head of a secular dictatorship.

[QUOTE]

Muslims always boast that somewhere in far history Jews and Christian lived a happy life in Islamic States.
The fact is (from our cotemporary days) that wherever Muslims are in majority, the people of minority community start locating some other residence. We must know the reason.
[/QUOTE]

How does your "fact" from "contemporary days" impact our history?

And yes, I second hiccup. please give us some basis for this fact about exodus of minorities en masse from Muslim countries.

But why do I have this feeling that you'll never be heard from on this thread again?

Mr ravage, how much you like the praises, is a real fun. The article above is a correct sample.

Yes I repeat that Muslims are good people, not because they are Muslims, but because they are like people of any other community.

Where did you get the concept of a ‘good Muslim’? I do not think if Islam talks in terms of good and bad Muslims.
Islam has two categories, Muslim and disbelievers.

Do minorities in Muslim majority area look for some other residence?
What was the % ratio of Hindus, Christians in (West) Pakistan in 1948 and what is it now in 2003?

(I can walk out if it appeases you on this thread. No ego problem, Sir)

i'll enjoy this, but just so i dont miss the fun of you making an idiot out of yourself, I'll withold the answer until you ask the question.

so, yahudi, pray tell what do you mean? in clearer terms?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by yahudi: *
Mr ravage, how much you like the praises, is a real fun. The article above is a correct sample.

Yes I repeat that Muslims are good people, not because they are Muslims, but because they are like people of any other community.

Where did you get the concept of a ‘good Muslim’? I do not think if Islam talks in terms of good and bad Muslims.
Islam has two categories, Muslim and disbelievers.

Do minorities in Muslim majority area look for some other residence?
What was the % ratio of Hindus, Christians in (West) Pakistan in 1948 and what is it now in 2003?

(I can walk out if it appeases you on this thread. No ego problem, Sir)
[/QUOTE]

Just so you know, we do have concepts of good muslims, bad muslims and so on. Goes to show how superficial your knowledge of Islam is. I assure you, I am not a very religious person, and a lot of my closer friends worry about my Islam, with some basis. Even so, what rankles me is that you would insist on sticking to such juvenile, childish arguments when theres so much more out there that is unsettling to me, as a Muslim, and insist on instigating spurious, pointless, done-to-death debates.

As a forewarning, since Im in a more charitable mood, that percentages stuff about hindu/christian populations is a bunch of statistical baloney. The magic lies in the use of percents, and not actual figures. If you looked at the population distribution of 1948, and the numbers that emigrated either side of the border on partition, you'll find that there is very little to take issue with in the actual figures of populations, the little there is can be explained by taking into account the general muslim tendency to be vary of contraceptives, which is evident from the fact that the muslim growth rate in india too exceeds the non-muslim rate.

the reason why the percentages are so disparate is because, whereas roughly equal numbers of people emigrated after the partition, this impacted the percentages of Pakistan much more adversely, with a total denominator of 150 million, whereas the same amount becomes very small in India's case, 1 billion.

its called spin.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *

the reason why the percentages are so disparate is because, whereas roughly equal numbers of people emigrated after the partition, this impacted the percentages of Pakistan much more adversely, with a total denominator of 150 million, whereas the same amount becomes very small in India's case, 1 billion.

its called spin.
[/QUOTE]

?????????

Can you explain this in easy to understand English? The question was something to do with percentage of Christians in W Pak in 1948 (after partition) and today.

Why would the partition have an impact?

i wish i had the figures at my disposal but im at my office and cant spend much time answering.

but a great number..i remember upto 300,000 people emigrated at the time of partition. in Indias case, the refugees were almost exclusively Muslim. in pakistan's case they were almost exclusively non-muslim.

emigrants now make up 10 percent of Pakistan's population.

the question I foresaw coming was why christians/hindus formed such a small percent of pakistan's population now as opposed to pre-partition days..which is an oft-floated point on anti-pakistan propaganda sites. The answer to that question is, that while people at the time of partition changed sides in both countries, this impacted the percentages in Pakistan's case much more "adversely" than in India's case, simply because you're dividing by a much larger number in the latter.

If you want to compare the two countries, compare the actual numbers, and you'll see whats going on.

ofcourse the partition was a very painful experience, and there was killings both sides of the border..but thats how India-Pakistan have always been.

cheers.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Toddytapper: *

?????????

Can you explain this in easy to understand English? The question was something to do with percentage of Christians in W Pak in 1948 (after partition) and today.

Why would the partition have an impact?
[/QUOTE]

emigrants went back and forth after partition well into the sixties.

and as far as I know..the figures quoted in these reports are 1945 figures, before the partition. I doubt that during the turmoil of 1948 either government had the time to conduct a census.

Beautiful and lovely and some may say as interesting, as this discussion is turing out to be. This still has nothing to do with the inherant goodness of muslims. Lets put it this way, in Pak I don't see hindus being burnt at the stake.
But I do see Sunni shia violence.
Nor is Pak the only country with a majority of muslim community. The Arab emmirates is full of the buggers, however many people still migrate there for the sake of work.

Yahudi jee, dear sir, etc. You are condradicting yourself, on the one hand you say there is both good and bad in the muslim faith, and then you condemn it by asking why poeple flee from muslims. Which is a weak question, and based on no viable data collection.

But, I understand where you are coming from, according to the statistics I have right here, in this pink file, It says that you are completely random and that actually I am right. I am always right.
Being a muslim I'm sure you understand why I am being so difficult.

Not my fault, says so right here.(the I'm right bit)

Let us keep ourselves away from partition confusion.

Next time I will use a better date, say, what was the % ratio of Hindus and Christian in (West) Pakistan in 1955 or in 1960 and what it is now in 2003?

It is a good question that why Hindus do not create any problem in Pakistan?
And why in India Muslims take an equal part in riots?

Deatr Ravage, pls enlighten me. Where did you find the concept of a ‘good Muslim’ and a ‘bad Muslim’ in your Holy books?
Thanks in advance.

Mr Hiccup, I do not argue, Muslims are always right, there cannot be any other way left.

Who said that Hindus created no “trouble” in Pakistan? Just becasue the majority of Hindu nationalists are neurotic and rather phychotic has nothing to do with the mental stability of Pakistanis.
Sweety, if you are going to get ridiculous than so am I.
Hindus burnt muslims alive in gujrat. I hope you are not implying that the women and kids burnt in the homes “had this coming” to them? Becasue not even you could be so viciously wrong.
Why is it that muslims are still persecuted in India? You tell me.
Maybe your pink folder has all the amswers.
There is a sizeable population of Christians in many parts of Pakistan. A minority, obviously, but they are living in rather more harmony than in say India, where Churches too were set ablaze and Priests murdered on several occasion. ( what is it with hindu nationalists and fire)

Me being a muslim only dictates that I am assured in my beliefs and morals.
Me being eternally right is all my doing. :flower1:

Miss yahudi, I am glad we are in agreement but next time “dear” please don’t ignore all the reasonable points I make in my posts it’s a rareity. Appreciate it.

Like a dodo egg.

[QUOTE]
A minority, obviously, but they are living in rather more harmony than in say India, where Churches too were set ablaze and Priests murdered on several occasion. ( what is it with hindu nationalists and fire)
[/QUOTE]

Pakistani Hindu temple faces demolition

A 150-year-old Hindu temple in the Pakistani city of Peshawar has become the focus of a property dispute involving the army.

This is the most important temple for the Hindus in Peshawar

The Balmiki temple is located in the Kalibari area of the city where a small Hindu community is concentrated.

But the Kalibari area is part of the city's military cantonment and is run by the army.

The army is saying that the people who run the temple, as well as the owners of some 70 houses in the neighbourhood, must leave.

They have been served with eviction notices.

The army wants to pull down the existing buildings and replace them with a high-rise shopping complex.

The army says that Kalibari is the property of the local cantonment board, and it has the right to vacate it.

Stiff resistance

It has been trying to clear the area for the past 15 years, and has met stiff resistance from the Hindu residents.

The presence of the Balmiki temple, which is the hub of the Hindu community in this crowded neighbourhood, has become a sensitive issue.

Head priest Ramlal says the temple was built in 1861

The head priest, Ramlal, who has looked after the temple for the last 35 years, says the property in Kalibari belongs to the minorities.

"In 1861, four Hindu merchants were the owners of half of the cantonment area. They built the houses in the Kalibari area to house their employees. They have been living here since then," Ramlal told BBC News Online.

He said the army would have confiscated the land and property a "long time ago" if they owned it.

Local people do not want to move out of the area.

"We have spent our entire lives in our house or the temple. They are a part of our lives now," said Ms Devi Das.

Ramlal, who is also the local Hindu leader, said that residents of Kalibari are not prepared to live in any other neighbourhood in Peshawar.

But he said that the people would vacate their homes if they were promised accommodation in the high-rise complex.

THE VOICE OF THE VOICELESS OF PAKISTAN

  • MR. SHAHBAZ BHATTI -
    AT IMMINENT RISK OF LOSS OF LIBERTY OR LIFE.

Mr. Shahbaz Bhatti is a prominent voice for the voiceless of Pakistan, and has been since 1985. He is the Founder & President of the Christian Liberation Front of Pakistan (CLF), the Chairman of the All Pakistan Minorities Alliance (APMA), and the Executive Director of the Pakistan Council for Human Rights. He is a Christian who works tirelessly and courageously, despite threats and dangers, for the Christians and other religious minorities of Pakistan. (For further details on CLF and APMA see footnote below.)

** For some months now Mr. Bhatti has been under great pressure from government security agencies, warning him clearly that if he does not stop raising his voice against the persecution and victimisation of the religious minorities of Pakistan, he will be punished severely, or even assassinated.

Government authorities have placed Mr. Bhatti’s name on Pakistan’s Exit Control List (ECL), which means he cannot travel abroad. The threats and harassments are becoming more intense and more severe by the day and the situation is becoming critical.

Mr. Bhatti is in grave danger because he is the voice of the voiceless, oppressed, persecuted and terrorised religious minorities of Pakistan, and the government wants that voice silenced. Reports from reliable sources indicate that his arrest is imminent. **


Since the War on Terror commenced in October 2001, persecution of Christians, including terrorist attacks against Christians in Pakistan, has escalated dramatically. Mr. Bhatti has strongly condemned the brutal killings of innocent Christians at the hands of pro-Taliban and pro-al Qaeda militants and he has exposed the ongoing networks of militant Islamic organisations inside Pakistan.

Mr. Bhatti’s exposure of the persecution and terrorism against Christians in Pakistan embarrasses the Pakistan government. Pakistan needs to present an image of progress and success in its domestic fight against terror and Islamist militancy, if it is to continue to secure U.S. financial aid.

The U.S. has already granted Pakistan nearly US$2 billion in aid, and President Bush recently pledged another US$3 billion over the next five years. However, “the flow of the aid is to be subjected to a strict annual review on the extent of Islamabad’s crackdown on terrorism, control of the spread of nuclear weapons and steps towards restoration of democracy.” (Link 1)

Pakistan’s president, General Pervez Musharraf, has promised to clamp down hard on militant Islam and terrorism, but he has not been able to match his rhetoric with results and this puts future U.S. aid under threat.

On Wednesday 29 October, Pakistan will be under the spotlight as the US House Committee on International Relations meets to discuss the subject of terrorism in Asia and the Pacific.

Mr. Bhatti is in grave and imminent danger. Apart from angry government officials after U.S. funds, there are also those in Pakistan’s intelligence service (the ISI) and in the government, who hold a radical, hard-line Islamist, pro-Taliban position. They are more than willing to support or even facilitate the silencing of Mr. Shahbaz Bhatti’s Christian voice.


Madam hiccups, wot about blasphemy laws used against christians and other minorities in your country…is it anything less than setting ppl fire…
and why dont you have freedom of preaching any religion other than islam in your paradise?? are christian missionaries allowed to function in your country?? gr8 tolerance…it brings tears into my eyes…