Muslims and allowable interactions with Non Muslims

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *

Did you hear me say that the Quran should be changed? No you didn't, so the weakness is in people like you who take these verses which were revealed 1400 yrs ago and apply them to yourselves and others as if everything has stood still in that time.

Didn't you post a thread in the WA forum proclaiming you were going to vote for a Kaafir in the next election? Hope you got some proof from the Quran and Sunnah for that bro, seeing as you think everybody else needs it.
[/QUOTE]

Xtreme brother You really took it to the Xtreme, Did you hear me say that you said "Quran should be changed ".? No I did not said that, I just pointed out your Words
was written which is both a strength and a weakness in some ways.

I am referring to THAT very weakness you are reffering to in Quran. Quran is not about any weakness my dear. And yes I do take that same Quran from THAT same era of time and bring it in my life as it was revealed 1400 hundered years ago. You know why ? It’s the principal source of every Muslim’s faith and practice. It deals with all subjects that concern us as human beings: wisdom, doctrine, worship. It dealt with these issues then and it has the same answers now.

[quote]
people like you who take these verses which were revealed 1400 yrs ago and apply them to yourselves and others as if everything has stood still in that time.
[/quote]

Let me tell you something, this Quran that you say was revealed 1400 years address this below your so called UPTO DATE discoveries 1400 years ago

  • The universe was created from a "big bang".
  • The universe is expanding.
  • The formation of multiple worlds throughout the universe.
  • The orbitary movements of planets, stars etc
  • The way in which the sun gives out light and heat (ie. nuclear reactions).
  • The theory of evolution.
  • The origin of all life is aquatic.
  • The finite life of stars
  • Less air (specifically oxygen) exists as you ascend the sky.
  • The area near the Dead Sea is one of, if not, the lowest spot on earth, below sea level
  • The Earth's atmosphere, which protects us from harmful radiation (ie. UV rays from the sun).
  • And more

An interesting story for you out of Quran my friend and that is just ONE of em

**The Female Bee

In the 16th chapter (Surah an-Nahl 16:68-69) the Qur'an mentions that the female bee leaves its home to gather food. Now, a person might guess on that, saying, "The bee that you see flying around - it could be male, or it could be female. I think I will guess female." Certainly, he has a one in two chance of being right. So it happens that the Qur'an is right. But it also happens that that was not what most people believed at the time when the Qur'an was revealed.

Can you tell the difference between a male and a female bee? Well, it takes a specialist to do that, but it has been discovered that the male bee never leaves his home to gather food. However, in Shakespeare's play, Henry the Fourth, some of the characters discuss bees and mention that the bees are soldiers and have a king. That is what people thought in Shakespeare's time - that the bees that one sees flying around are male bees and that they go home and answer to a king.

However, that is not true at all. The fact is that they are females, and they answer to a queen. Yet it took modern scientific investigations in the last 300 years to discover that this is the case.

**

So, let me get this straight AS PER YOU, if I had stood still in time, has that bee changed since it was made ? Do those male beez go out these days to get food? Please put some light to that.

As per me voting for Kerry instead of that monkey face, Yes I would indeed vote for Kerry for the sole reason that I hate Bush with passion, To me he is the worst person in command, because of him so many Muslim countries are in trouble. Why would I vote for Kerry? because there is no opponent that can challenge his seat. Believe me if you run for president you will have my vote, until then I vote him, till then stop whining.

BTW it is XTREMELY low of you to bring things outside of this thread just because you want to put down the other person without even disclosing the FULL views and thoughts of that person. It’s just like me calling someone' he is an A$$$ hole'. And you go ahead and start telling people that look he called that person an 'A$$$ HOLE'. But you don’t tell people that I called that person an ' A$$ hole' because he cursed my father or mother or anybody close to me.

Same thing you did here, I voting for some Kaafir( my personal business), but why ? I did explain my doings.... why didn’t you post that part?
Bro, I don’t know who made you the moderator of any forum, but let me be very upfront with you. You do not know how to defend your self, you take the help of the lame points of the other persons from past posts, to put the other person down just because you want to come out good in front of everybody. That is nothing but lame.

If I must say weren’t you the Mod who went out and made fun of Anwaar about how he posted Quranic Verses in green and then you went out Mimicking him all over gupistan ? I might be wrong but do care to explain.

*Ps/ My advice to you, stand up and talk like a man when it comes to argument, and try not dig out and quote what people have said in the past to prove your point. Incase if you do then post where the person is coming from, not just what YOU want to say for that person.
*
-Salman

22

Queer: I know as a muslim, I dun have such views that u mention.

Thank you… as very relevent ayaat from surah Tauba (9) would be:

**ﻢﻴﺟﺮﻟﺍ ﻦﻄﻴﺸﻟﺍ ﻦﻣ ﻪﻠﻟﺍﺎﺑ ﺫﻮﻋﺍ **

64. The hypocrites fear lest a surah should be revealed concerning them, proclaiming what is in their hearts. Say: Scoff (your fill)! Lo! Allah is disclosing what ye fear.

65. And if thou ask them (O Muhammad) they will say: We did but talk and jest. Say: Was it at Allah and His revelations and His messenger that ye did scoff ?

66. Make no excuse. Ye have disbelieved after your (confession of) belief. If We forgive a party of you, a party of you We shall punish because they have been guilty.

When People see such aayaat, they tend to relate there filthy acts to these and get offended… this is called “Chor kee daaRhi maiN tinka”… Quran is universal :~)

23

I noticed both of those and wanted to comment but decided to bite my tongue for once, glad someone else did it though.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by sadzzz:
sometimes its so difficult for me to explain to non believers why islam is so good.. when comments like these are broadcasted..
[/QUOTE]

Yeah.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
"Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise." (Bukhari)

Become our ally, we'll become yours.
[/QUOTE]

This is what we should be quoting, and reminding people.

24

Salman :k:

ALLAH, the creator, the supreme, the great who revealed Quran as a final and complete book of guidance for all time and place and for all of mankind.

I think some “muslims” think ALLAH did not know about the year 2004 when he revealed Quran 1400 years ago. Astaghfirullah… Unbelievable… :rolleyes:

25

Salamander-in new york mah love, don't "we" have some spare time on our hands, to be so absolutely narrow minded and silly is not healthy for the mental organs, assuming you are not male and thus think with your brain.

It's called mutual respect gorgeous, you should be able to respect fellow human beings (amazing creations and living proof that a god exisits) and based solely on their IQ, bless them with the ability to make their own decisions and then proceed to live in harmony.

If however there are certain intolerant idiots around, then they need to be shot, there are enough morons around as it is.

You are not better than anybody else and no-one has promised you a throne in the heavens. Be more concerned with your self and as a wise owl once squarked

"moral indignation is jealously on a high horse"
Come down love, you look like you are afriad of heights.

26

Doesn't Islam teach us to set an example for others with our kindness? What sort of example are we setting with such intolerance? Intolerance and kindness don't quite go hand in hand. It all gets very confusing.

27

ditto:k:

Astaghfirullah!

28

No, the point is that one can not just read a verse from the quran without understanding the context and circumstances of when it was revealed and what it meant.

otherwise what do you think of surah kauser, aur surah lahab or surah hamza? they talked about specific situations of that time, understanding the context and background of those surahs and thus using them as a guide is one thing, but just reading a statement and not realizing what it actually means does not give anyone teh full picture.

29

^^ let's just say the text when obviously without context has 'timeless' meanings.. however a lot is taken away from the Qur'an if we subject it to interpretation from other texts.. which try to bind everything in it to a certain timeframe or pesonalities..

30

I am nto talking about interpretation from other texts, but understanding the context of the surah based on what was going on then.

31

Exactly Fruadz, One should never judge NO BODY because of their one line or just a phrase. IMO, Queer should have added the Surah with this post so that the viewers would get an honest look at the problem @ hand.
One should understand where the person is coming from. One should understand the whole surah to jump to the conclusion about what Quran is saying. It might be slightly different or it might be totally different.

** hiccup** I just love ya. Never seen a bigger hypocrite in my life. You contradicted your self in your own very post girl.

[quote]
*Originally posted by hiccup: *It’s called mutual respect gorgeous, you should be able to respect fellow human beings **

and then starting out calling me Salamander-in new york babes you need to start being smart . And for next time don’t give some one the lecture how he/she should respect the other when you are violating that very rule your self.

at least I was addressing the post, woman you got some time or what I must say, that you came running to help ya fella out and your golden words that you contributed had ABSOLOUTLEY NOTHING to do with this thread.

Man, you are good, I see you were so very tolerant in your reply and the best part it had nothing to do with you. You came out of NOWHERE and I mean NOWHERE to attack me. Girl if you know Urdu there is a saying:
** MAAN NA MAAN MEIN TAIRA MEHMAAN** and you fit rite on it.
Strongman :k:
Femme Fatale You are very right, but no body is perfect sometime when you read that so not right, it hurts and people like me loose their minds. But yea including me, one should be more tolerant it’s not a nice approach.
-Salman

32

Khwateen o Hazraat....

Zara thanday ho kay guftgu karein... why resort to personal insults with such passion?

33

Quran must be understood in terms of it’s context and “shaan-e-nuzool” which is refered to as Ta’aweel-e-Khaas and must also be understood in Ta’aweel-e-Aam …

hope it will open up a door to more BALANCED discussion now:)

hope THIS LINK in urdu will give us more insight :~)

34

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Khwateen o Hazraat....

Zara thanday ho kay guftgu karein... why resort to personal insults with such passion?
[/QUOTE]

Faisal Bhai, i didnt know your urdu was/is that good :)

-Salman

35

Aren’t we just so cute in our stubborness to remain perched on pedestles?.
salamander in new york just suits you so :flower1:

And baby, by gracing this thread I contributed plenty.

Capiching?

36

What I don’t understand is that Allah himself is very companionate to non-Muslims, He feeds them, protects them, allows them to live life like normal human beings and shows His mercy by going overboard and Muslims believe him to be Rahman and Raheem. But He has instructed his faithful followers to not do the same?

How can it be that the companionate, loving, merciful Allah forbids his own true followers (i.e. Muslims, in case you are confused who am I talking about) to not show the same love and mercy to the non-believers?

37

again

** MAAN NA MAAN MEIN TAIRA MEHMAAN **

and yea

Capiching… whatever that means…

38

Very typical. If you agree with the Quranic ayat then it is a proof of how Quran was written for all people and for all times to come but if some one points out something harsh in an ayat then it becomes contextrual issue and one needs to know other thousands things before interpretation.

Muslims are humans and they have friendships with non-muslims all the time. Most of them who are exposed to non-muslims(unlike the muslims from the muslim world most of whom never met a non-muslim or never knew one well or long enough) have non-mulsim friends, colleagues, classmates that they spend time with like any other people will do. That is normal human instinct. Problem is they have not read or interpretted or paid any heed to the above Quranic ayats. Ones who take these ayats in good faith like Salman or Lajwab know what they mean.

39

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SalmanNY: *

I would love and care any GIVEN DAY my Muslim brother/sister in need above a non-Muslim, because IMO there are so many and i mean so many Muslim brothers and sisters, in Africa in Ethiopia in Nigeria in Somalia in Kashmir in Palestine, who deserve my care love and affection on this day as compare to a Non Muslim.

THINK TWICE before buying a bouquet of roses for a non Muslim. Those $ 30 dollars or even $ 5 dollars can feed a third world country brother/sister in islam for a week to a month.

[/QUOTE]

Is there some sort of medical bracelet you could wear that clearly states your type of samaritanism? It would be helpful.

For instance, say there were a bad pileup on the interstate. Normally, I would go and help the human beings most in need. But I guess if I saw you on the side of the road with a steering column protruding from your chest, and I spotted your bracelet, I'd step right over you (trying not to bump into the piece of metal sticking out of you) and go to the next person-perhaps another Muslim.

God will decide what kind of Muslim you have been. But you've given me enough info here to decide what sort of person you are.

40

Re: Muslims and allowable interactions with Kafirs

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
I happened to come across a couple of what i feel are disturbing quotes on threads posted here today - quotes from scholars stating to the effect that muslims arent allowed to have any love or respect to kafirs.

My question is, what do muslims here think of these statements. Do you believe in this?
[/QUOTE]

Queer that totally goes against what the real Islam is.Islam not only teaches us to respect others, but to treat them just like we would any other person.It doesnt matter they are non muslims or not.Allah created us all.Who ever said that was obviously not very smart.