Muslims and alcohol

Hangout GupShup Cafe
1

I was reading a member’s thread when something occured to me. Why do Muslims who drink alcohol refrain from eating pork, bacon etc? The excuse is, it’s haram. As far as i’m aware, so is alcohol. If you’re drinking haram why do you refrain from eating haram? I’m no one to judge whether or not they’re still a Muslim regarding their haram indulgence but I was just curious to find out why do we have such double standards? Alcohol is fine but pork and bacon isn’t? Strange

2

Re: Muslims and alcohol

^ Good point.

3

Re: Muslims and alcohol

:)

4

It's actually not becoz of halal or haram. It's becoz pork or bacon is disgusting while alcohol is not.

They would do anything haram as long as it doesn't disgust them.

5

That's it. But actually, I do know Muslims who eat pork, too. But most won't.

6

Re: Muslims and alcohol

I don't think its double standards.
Some people prefer to refrain from some things . buss.
If you do one haraam doesnt mean you do all haram's.
Every haram has its own gunah.

7

MKD at least kisi cheez se to bach rahein hain :hehe: Other than that I see most of people eat haraam beef,chicken and drink alcohol but don’t eat pork.Well I myself don’t know the reason.

8

mate if you have enough alchol u'd guzzle down a bowl of pork chops before any one can say 'haram'..

9

you are wrongly informed, alcohol is not haram.

now come again.

10

Well those whom you've seen drinking alcohol but refrain from eating pork and bacon etc, are muslims who make their own sharia law and decide what is haram and what is not.

They would also have zinnah and call it halal.......But coming back to the topic.

Pork and bacon are are haram to a bit extreme and through out our childhood we are told that Pig eats and lives in his own filth and most of us wouldnt prefer eating it even if it was halal.

11

Re: Muslims and alcohol

i get more concerned with muslims who pray 5 times a day and then loot, cheat, kill, wait thats extreme, those who are not kind, not paying any attention to haqooq al ibaad, those who forget things like kindness, compassion and respect.

the bloke who is having a few brews is not positioning himself as some super muslim to begin with, his incorrect actions impact only him, and maybe a few around him who can get influenced by his thoughts and approach.

The characters I mentioned earlier, they are the ones who cause real trouble..and there are many of them around

12

Re: Muslims and alcohol

jo jitna bara gunah kareyga usko uski saza mileygi.
Jo jitna zyadah kareyga usko utni zyadah mileygi.
Buss.

13

uncle first bring a verse which say .. alcohol is haram.. then we will talk further?

14

Let me make it easy for you guys:

[QUOTE]
"O you who believe, do not approach the Salat while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless travelling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving." (4:43)

"O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tools of affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful." (5:90)

"They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say: “In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.” And they ask you how much are they to give, Say: “The excess.” It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think." (2:219)

"And from the fruits of the palm trees and the grapes you make wine and a good provision. In that is a sign for a people who comprehend." (16:67)

"Is the example of Paradise; that the righteous have been promised with rivers of pure water, and rivers of milk whose taste does not change, and rivers of wine that are delicious for the drinkers, and rivers of strained honey, and for them in it are all kinds of fruits, and a forgiveness from their Lord; like that of those who abide in the Fire, and are given to drink boiling water that cuts-up their intestines?" (47:15)
[/QUOTE]

Argument # 1: Alcohol is haram/forbidden

This statement is usually uttered by followers of the Hadith or Ulema with no ability to provide direct evidence from the Quran. This statement is based on no knowledge or research as the Quran is very explicit in the items that are haram** (see verse 5:3 for an example of how forbidden items are directly stated).**

When confronted with obvious contradictions to their statement such as the verse (see 4:43) stating that Salat is not to be approached if a person is intoxicated, they will go into a spin that alcohol was permitted at the beginning of the Quran`s revelation as God did not want to scare people away from the new religion (God had no problem ripping the very fabric of their social and political and religious lives, but did not want to upset people by taking away their drink!). And that when Islam was established, God went ahead and forbade it.

Argument # 2: God tells us that alcohol is to be avoided which is far stronger than being haram/forbidden.

This statement, although wrong, is somewhat creative. The debaters have decided to create a new category called stronger than being forbidden and they base their view on** verse 5:90** which they claim God tells people to avoid alcohol and therefore this is more powerful than being forbidden as you have to make a conscious effort to even get out of places and situations where alcohol is present.

SHAKIR: O you who believe! intoxicants and games of chance and (sacrificing to) stones set up and (dividing by) arrows are only an uncleanness (Rijs), the Shaitan's work; shun it therefore that you may be successful. (5:90)

Why is this argument wrong?
Simply because the verse being quoted and used as evidence has been mistranslated.

The word in question is the Arabic faijtanibuh. Nearly all translators (and even Arabic speakers) automatically relate this word (which means: avoid / stay-away) as addressing the subject of alcohol quoted in the beginning of 5:90. What is obvious to a careful reader is that the wording ends with the H which is in Arabic called dhameer and is referring to a singular.

Now, the verse in question has two singular items that it may be referring to: 1. Rijs/Uncleanness, 2. Shaitan.

While the majority have obviously selected the Rijs to support their theory of alcohol being avoided, the verse is correctly referring to the Devil Shaitan as can be seen in the very next verse:

"The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the Salat. Will you be deterred?" (5:91)

The correct translation therefore becomes:

"O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and sacraments, and fortunes are foul tools used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful." (5:90)

Argument # 3: Alcohol is Ithm (sin) and ithm has been forbidden.

This argument is based on verses 2:219 and 7:33.

As with point # 2, this argument is not valid based on a simply study of the Quranic text.

While ithm/sin is indeed clearly forbidden in 7:33, the verse linking alcohol with ithm is saying fihima ithm (in them is ithm) and not they are Ithm. Thus, alcohol in itself is not Ithm but may be used in a way that produces the Ithm (which is in-line with the previous point that the devil uses these tools against people).

15

Re: Muslims and alcohol

*Conclusion:
*

1) Nowhere does God forbid alcohol in the Quran.
2) Allah informs us that Salat is not to be approached while intoxicated. This nullifies the haram argument in its infancy.
3) Allah tells us heaven will have rivers of alcohol as well as milk and honey. This again nullifies the haram argument as no pig or blood or any other haram elements are made available.
4) The verse used most to outlaw alcohol speaks of the devil and that he should be avoided (not the alcohol).
5) Cleary alcohol is not forbidden in Islam and the only restriction found in the Quran is to avoid making Salat if intoxicated..

:)

16

Kindly define word 'haram'.

You wrote it and hence it means you know what it means. :)

17

Re: Muslims and alcohol

interesting firenze

18

are you confusing haram & haraam? ..actually you know what i have to use haraam instead of haram.

but anyway.. meaning.. hmm.. forbidden.. or anything that is prohibited by the faith.

19

good point

20

Dude!

You keep trying to fool people or yourself with your baseless posts again and again. (some of your posts do make great sense though. :))

Would you please stop the obvious sillines of posting silly thoughts without even thinking YOURSELF?

Thanks for copy pasting from this site. :smack:

http://www.free-minds.org/alcohol2

Not to mention your weak argument or the site you went to to get the support. :smiley:

Bring a stronger argument somehow even if you have to make it up yourself or just admit that you love to drink and do not care of any scripture. (Perhaps a more realistic stance)