Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

[Stardust09]

I have no hate for religious organizations but they have to make sense. and just the modesty argument falls flat on its face within 3 questions. Using the same argument pat downs should not be allowed either, why are they not arguing about that, and that goes on everywhere.

similarly, modesty about not taking your clothes off in front of anyone can get questioned about medical situations. Point is that someone can ask this and what is the response? that the person looking at it is a professional, same gender. so the response is sure, the person looking at the image are also professionals and of the same gender, then what? then we say no no but this is medically necessary for the individual's wellbeing..and the response is yes and this is necessary for the wellbeing of this and other individuals on the flight.

so forget me, but when it comes to public relations and making logical arguments they have not made a good enough argument that people can not poke holes in.

Now in business world, we say I would rather have my team poke holes in my plan or presentation before I go to company at large, and then have company poke holes in it before i go to market.

groups like fiqh council need to be more strategic, think more and have more of a chess mentality than a knee jerk slam dunk approach. Its the same lack or deficiency of vision that makes majority of these ppl seem like bumbling idiots when they are asked questions because they have a one trick pony approach to arguments and one that pony falls they are standing with nothing.

I dont hate them, what I dont like about some of our religious organizations though is their inability to evolved with the same ppl clinging by hook or crook to their positions, even when they have been shown in a light which negatively impacts the organization. I am not against religious organizations, I am against their power games, poor operations, lack of attention to detail that gets you in trouble.

but thanks for assuming. :)

females pat down females and men pat down men. That's the way it has always been no matter where I have flown be it America or Saudi Arabia. The issue of modesty doesn't arise in those situations.

And modesty might not be a "tangible" argument for you but to Muslim women, it is a very important thing. It's not something that you can poke holes into or require something definitive.

Also, apart from modesty and religious aspect there is the issue of human civil liberties which is shoved down our throats as being such a "fundamental" right. A person has absolutely every right to avoid any kind of invasive procedure which ultimately makes them feel that they got a worst deal than anyone else. and, IMO, these women definitely did the right thing denying the procedure.

I don't think any one of us can judge about body scanners until we've actually had our own scan done. It's pointless trying to argue about it.

[AzJaKa]

@Deeba1234

**Muslim women who refused to take ‘naked’ full-body scan are barred from Manchester to Pakistan flight **

Two Muslim women have become the first passengers to refuse to subject themselves to controversial ‘naked’ full body airport scans, it emerged today.
The pair - who security officials insist were selected at random - opted to miss their flight to Pakistan and forfeit tickets worth £400 each rather than be screened.

One of the women refused to go through the full-body scanner at Manchester Airport on religious grounds while her companion also declined for ‘medical reasons’. The women were travelling together to Islamabad when they were selected to pass through the controversial security screen after checking-in at Terminal Two at the airport.

An estimated 15,000 people have already passed through the scanners, with the pair the first passengers to refuse a scan. Both told airport staff they were not willing to be scanned. They were warned they would not be allowed to board the Pakistan International Airlines flight if they refused. The pair decided they would rather forfeit their £400 tickets and left the airport with their luggage.

The £80,000 scanners were introduced at Heathrow and Manchester airports on February 5. The X-ray machines allow security staff to see a ‘naked’ image of passengers to show up hidden weapons and explosives, but it has attracted criticism for also showing clear outlines of passengers’ genitals.

Manchester Airport confirmed the passengers had refused to be scanned but said it had received no complaint from the women. However, civil liberties campaigners say the incident could form the basis of a legal test case to challenge the use of the Rapiscan device in airports. Alex Deane, director of campaign group Big Brother Watch, said the organisation would represent the women if they wished to challenge the decision in court.

He said: 'People shouldn’t have to sacrifice their health, their faith, their dignity, or their privacy in order to fly. ‘People with health and religious concerns shouldn’t be forced to go through these scanners if they have good reason not to. Foolishly, the government has ignored both issues and ignored privacy concerns to boot - they are in the wrong on this.’

There is one Rapiscan scanner in use in a trial at Manchester Airport’s terminal two, which has seen 15,000 people pass through it. A further two devices - one each for terminals one and three - have been delivered and are set to be operational within the next month. The scanners have been criticised by the human rights group Liberty and the government’s own Equality and Human Rights Commission. Only selected passengers are scanned. Security staff say they are chosen at random and not according to race, religion or ethnicity.

Councillor Afzal Khan, who was Manchester’s first Asian lord mayor, said the vast majority of Muslims believed that any privacy concerns should be outweighed by ensuring they are safe when flying. He said: ‘Hundreds of Muslim passengers have gone through without a problem. While I appreciate people’s concerns for privacy, these steps are necessary for our safety and security.’
A Manchester Airport spokesman said: 'Two female passengers who were booked to fly out of Terminal Two refused to be scanned for medical and religious reasons.

‘In accordance with the government directive on scanners, they were not permitted to fly. Body scanning is a big change for customers and we are aware that privacy concerns are on our customers’s minds, which is why we have put strict procedures in place to reassure them that their privacy will be protected.’

Last month, Transport Secretary Lord Adonis stressed that an interim code of practice on the use of body scanners stipulated that passengers would not be selected ‘on the basis of personal characteristics’.

Two weeks ago, a week after the scanners were introduced at Manchester and Heathrow airports, Islamic scholars in the U.S. said Muslim travellers should not pass through the scanners because they violate religious rules on nudity.
The Fiqh Council of North America issued a fatwa, or religious ruling, warning Muslims not to go through the scanners. ‘It is a violation of clear Islamic teachings that men or women be seen naked by other men and women,’ read the order. ‘Islam highly emphasises haya (modesty) and considers it part of faith. The Quran has commanded the believers, both men and women, to cover their private parts.’

In the U.S., there are now 40 scanners in 19 airports and could be as many as 450 by the end of the year. The powerful council of ten scholars that issued the fatwa is affiliated with the Islamic Society of North America.

Source: Muslim women barred from flight for refusing ‘naked’ full-body scan | Mail Online

Hmmmm, I was thinking people refusing the full body scanners could have a physical pat-down instead.. I guess it was only a matter of time before someone refused to be examined by the scanner..

Its only your ignorance because there are also enough non Muslims who refuse the body scan. But your narrominded thought about Muslims does only allow you to think like you are thinking. YOu only see Muslims doing things that are wrong but others are angels and u dont even care about others as long as Muslims are humiliated. If you were fair enough and you were not biased you would not only start anti Musim threads. it only shows your evil intention.

[desert_bird]

Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

Poor Desis , my Sympathies with you , as always :k:

Waiting for more Hijaaban , Niqaabans , Ninjaans to come and justify thier 200 lbs** ‘Thal Thal’**wrapped up in scarfs and abaya to minimize ‘bulging effects’ and 3D Flip Flopping Anatomy Mapping at ports :k:

Sub mil kar bolo : Dollar-Pound Mata kee Jai :k:

waisay In Punajbi , we say it **" Naukar Kee tai Nakhra Kee "
**
means why someone is posting such threads and objecting such things.
3rd class citizens have no right to say all these things. Shahbash pyarai Bacho aur Bachio , dont waste your or our time in these useless threads.

Enjoy !

If you know this woman, tell her that she’s naked on the Internet

[mama_ki_dua]

Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

Why are we making such a big issue? It was MUSLIMS who were involved in the 9/11 attack. It was MUSLIMS who werre involved in the 7/7 ( London) attack. Everyone is happy to go through the scan WHY do WE Muslims find it offensive? We need to realise that this is all being done in the name of safety. You don't like the body scan? Stay at home then no need to travel.

[Deeba1234]

@AzJaKa

Its only your ignorance because there are also enough non Muslims who refuse the body scan. But your narrominded thought about Muslims does only allow you to think like you are thinking. YOu only see Muslims doing things that are wrong but others are angels and u dont even care about others as long as Muslims are humiliated. If you were fair enough and you were not biased you would not only start anti Musim threads. it only shows your evil intention.

Evil intentions???? Stop being a weirdo and no, if u could read properly u'd have seen that the article clearly states that no-one had so far refused to take the scan. If you'd even bothered to look thru my older posts u'd see I prefer to talk about hair and beauty and family-related subjects. I haven't criticised these women at all or said it was wrong not to go thru the scanner, I just added I thought they might be subjected to a pat-down instead. Anyway, no point in arguing with someone who has such poor comprehension skills..

I post two Muslim related threads here cos I feel they address interesting issues and I'm apparently biased lol, u should improve ur English so u can actually understand what the articles say instead of coming up with some ridiculous knee-jerk reaction..

[X2]

@Stardust09

females pat down females and men pat down men. That's the way it has always been no matter where I have flown be it America or Saudi Arabia. The issue of modesty doesn't arise in those situations.

...and ppl being scanned can request a person of same gender to see the scan...so if person of same gender touching you ie. patting you for security is not an issue of modesty than the scan being seen by a person of same gender for security reasons is not either..

@Stardust09

And modesty might not be a "tangible" argument for you but to Muslim women, it is a very important thing. It's not something that you can poke holes into or require something definitive.

....well let me hold off because you are going to answer your own question in 3 seconds..
its not me the fiqh council have to convince...so it is a moot point if it is a tangible argument for me or not..

@Stardust09

Also, apart from modesty and religious aspect there is the issue of human civil liberties which is shoved down our throats as being such a "fundamental" right. A person has absolutely every right to avoid any kind of invasive procedure which ultimately makes them feel that they got a worst deal than anyone else. and, IMO, these women definitely did the right thing denying the procedure.

ahhhh...yes...language that most will understand, civil liberties, human rights yes yes...
medical issues...especially xraying a woman who may be pregnant and does not know it..yes..
some pregnant lady wins the lottery of being scanned and is afraid for impact on baby .. yes..
invasice process....yeah mon

see the fact that you thought about mentioning this means that the modesty argument on its own the way the fiqh council stated it is weak, and that is my point, its simplistic, its weak, it does not sell the story it does not sell their case...and it could have, had they been smart enough to think about it from PR perspective, but they dont, they did not, the do not and they will not..and that makes them weak, and that makes them a liability, if they can only get out of their own damn way, they will be better off.

@Stardust09

I don't think any one of us can judge about body scanners until we've actually had our own scan done. It's pointless trying to argue about it.

scanned already amigo, so I guess its pointless for you to argue about it until you are scanned, but since I have already been scanned in one of those contraptions, I can wax lyrical all I want.

Thank you, drive through :)

[X2]

@desert_bird

Poor Desis , my Sympathies with you , as always :k:

Waiting for more Hijaaban , Niqaabans , Ninjaans to come and justify thier 200 lbs** ‘Thal Thal’**wrapped up in scarfs and abaya to minimize ‘bulging effects’ and 3D Flip Flopping Anatomy Mapping at ports :k:

Sub mil kar bolo : Dollar-Pound Mata kee Jai :k:

waisay In Punajbi , we say it **" Naukar Kee tai Nakhra Kee "
**
means why someone is posting such threads and objecting such things.
3rd class citizens have no right to say all these things. Shahbash pyarai Bacho aur Bachio , dont waste your or our time in these useless threads.

Enjoy !

http://www.stephankinsella.com/2010/01/08/if-you-know-this-woman-tell-her-that-she’s-naked-on-the-internet/

dont say too much or pak govt may pick you up and sell you to a foreign country..

as you say in punjabi..naukar kee tai nakhra kee

[nadz123]

Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

We muslims always have something to complain about...always. and especially these hijabi women, those that cover their faces, always complaining about everything. how the system is unfair, how everyone is racist, how gorey want to kill us all and america is the enemy....get a life. im so sick of hearing these stories from so many extreme narrow minded muslims. firstly if you dont like the way u think ur being treated, get out of the western world and move to jeddah, secondly if you dont like being scanned at airports, then refrain from flying. thirdly if you cared about the people that die through terror acts you would do anything to protect innocent people and security comes first before any haya.....people need to ge ttheir priorities straight.

[X2]

Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

i agree with nadz, those parents should send their school age girls to jeddah

[Sarsaparilla]

and btw, they dont appear as naked on that monitor as they thing they do. Its not that 40 yrs old Najma aunty will appear as a Playboy centerfold on that screen. It comes out more like a sillehoute.

You are right. What shows up is a computer generated image which does not show body parts but highlights what should not be a body part.

[burqaposhx]

Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

full body scans are the same (if not much less vivid) compared to scans such MRI. How many cancer stricken Muslim woman would refuse that?

Just like MRI is a "health issue" and not a "religious issue",

So is

body scan a "security issue", and not a "religious issue".

Anyone objecting to MRI on religious ground should be declared NUTZ
similarly

Anyone objecting to electronic body scans on religious grounds should be declared NUTZ at least (if not a fully blown terror sympathizer).

[Captain1]

@queer

i heard you could get pregnant from these scanners. better not to fly, pal..

so did you feel pain in where sun don’t shine when you got thru the scanner?

[Captain1]

@burqaposhx

full body scans are the same (if not much less vivid) compared to scans such MRI. How many cancer stricken Muslim woman would refuse that?

Just like MRI is a "health issue" and not a "religious issue",

So is

body scan a "security issue", and not a "religious issue".

Anyone objecting to MRI on religious ground should be declared NUTZ similarly

Anyone objecting to electronic body scans on religious grounds should be declared NUTZ at least (if not a fully blown terror sympathizer).

I wish you had read something about MRI before posting this.

[Captain1]

@Sarsaparilla

You are right. What shows up is a computer generated image which does not show body parts but highlights what should not be a body part.

ek se barh ke ek chhoroo

Should You Be Afraid of Airport Body Scans? Or Just the TSA? | Technomix | Fast Company

Can I refuse an electronic strip search at an airport without being detained?

[Stardust09]

We muslims always have something to complain about...always. and especially these hijabi women, those that cover their faces, always complaining about everything. how the system is unfair, how everyone is racist, how gorey want to kill us all and america is the enemy....get a life. im so sick of hearing these stories from so many extreme narrow minded muslims. firstly if you dont like the way u think ur being treated, get out of the western world and move to jeddah, secondly if you dont like being scanned at airports, then refrain from flying. thirdly if you cared about the people that die through terror acts you would do anything to protect innocent people and security comes first before any haya.....people need to ge ttheir priorities straight.

what a stupid thing to say! how dare you judge hijabi women? Do you know of every single hijabi woman on this planet? I think not! so stop tarring everyone with your same ignorant brush. Besides, in case you didn't notice, women ALWAYS have something to complain about and it's not only hijabi women who have issues with non-Muslims.

And why should these Muslims get out of the Western world? Especially if they have been born and raised there? Their religion doesn't stop them from living in the West and they have every right to live and practice their religion according to it's rules. Who the hell are you to tell them to go back? Jeez, you sound worse than a gora!

Being scanned at airports is meant to be a security measure? Now why do I find that utterly hilarious? The underwear bomber whose plot failed managed to dupe not one, not two but three high tech security procedures in Nigeria and Amsterdam and one of them included a body scanner!! So get your facts right before you start hiding behind the pretences of "security measure". Like I said before, if someone wants to blow a plane up they will find ways to do it including dodging a body scanner.

and Islam is clearly not a priority for you because you seem to think putting security over the word of God is more potent. Absolutely pathetic. You are the absolute epitome of American-media, brainwashed drivel whose constant exposure to fear has made them forget what their purpose of this life really is.

[burqaposhx]

......Islam is clearly not a priority for you because you seem to think putting security over the word of God is more potent.

Absolutely pathetic. You are the absolute epitome of American-media, brainwashed drivel whose constant exposure to fear has made them forget what their purpose of this life really is.

Stardust!

I kind a agree with your complaints on stereotyping Hijabis, and I also see your point that body scanners could potentially fail to detect bombs hidden in the inner most cavities of Jihadis.

The low point of your post is your argument when you say:

----------- putting security over the word of God

What on earth is this word of God that would deny law enforcement officers to conduct their security checks including but not limited to x-rays, wand scanning, hand patting etc?

Care to explain?

Why it is that we have to drag Allah swt in some cheap low level worldly affairs like traveling by air?

Huh?

[nadz123]

Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

Thats the problem with us muslims, we drag allah into everything, we dont use our own brains and think with it. god gave us common sense, which we seem to forget most of the time and think what we are doing is for allah.

AND YES i do have problem with certain hijabis...because the ones that i know are very narrow minded, do not have full facts of ANYTHING before jumping on the america is evil bandwagon, and most of the time hear info 3rd hand from another jumped up crazy loon rather than researching on the topic themselves.

now i never called them bad muslims, hey these people are prob better muslims than me, but just because you pray, do everything else right, doesnt mean your educated in everything islamically or not. these people always think they know one better than others, thats what gets my goat.

[nadz123]

Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

and not just hijabis, but people who try to look relgious, i.e beards, hijbab etc to somehow make themselves look superior when they talk...people do that, not all, but i assure u some wear it JUST to show.

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

[Miss_Noland]

Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

O boy.. here comes the New World Order. That's exactly what the one world government advocates want! Use Terrorism as an excuse to bring out the big weapons that seem so harmless now but this is only the beginning. Watch them take away all your rights...

hippie mode on