Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

I’m not fan of veil & neither do I think it has anything to do with Islam. However, having said that, in a democratic country you can’t force people to wear or not any kind of dress code, and that too in supposedly western secular democracy country.

Muslim Women Face Choices As France’s Veil Ban Looms

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/05/frances-muslims-react-as-_n_845113.html

TRAPPES, France — Karima has a plan. If police stop her for wearing a veil over her face, she’ll remove it – then put it back on once they’re out of sight. If that doesn’t work, she’ll stay home, or even leave France.

For Muslim women who cover their faces with veils, it is the moment for making plans. Starting April 11, a new law banning garments that hide the face takes effect. Women who disobey it risk a fine, special classes and a police record.

The law comes as Muslims face what some see as a new jab at their religion: President Nicolas Sarkozy’s party is holding a debate Tuesday on the place of Islamic practices, and Islam itself, in strictly secular but traditionally Catholic France.

The increasing focus on France’s Muslims – who number at least 5 million, the largest such population in western Europe – comes with presidential elections a year away and support for a far-right party growing. A recent palpable rise in tensions has also been boosted by fears of a mass migration of Muslims due to disarray in the Arab world.

Interior Minister Claude Gueant put it bluntly Monday.

“This growth in the number of (Muslims) and a certain number of behaviors cause problems,” he said in remarks carried on French radio. “There is no reason why the nation should accord to one particular religion more rights than religions that were formerly anchored in our country.”

France’s challenge is evident in the Paris suburb of Trappes. It has a large Muslim population and is one of the few towns in France where veiled women are occasionally seen on the streets.

At the town hall, the subject of the impending crackdown is taboo. Some predict police will turn a blind eye to any veils to keep things tranquil.

“I have a choice to take it off. I choose not to,” said Karima, 25, shopping at the outdoor market in this town of 29,000 southwest of Paris.
Karima is forthright, though she refuses to provide her full name because of her defiant stance on the ban. Others are not so willing to talk. Two women veiled in black scurried away when approached.

“The problem of veils and so on become public issues because people are afraid,” said Farhad Khosrokhavar, a noted expert on Islam in France. “It’s a process of scapegoating and it works beautifully.”

The topic of Tuesday’s roundtable by Sarkozy’s conservative UMP party is officially secularism, a foundational value of France. However, the talks are expected to take up distinctly Muslim social issues like halal food in school cafeterias or demands by some for separate hours for women at public swimming pools.

Its backers say debate is needed to address evolutions in French society – such as a growing demand for mosque building and Islamic butchers – since the country’s 1905 law formally separated the state from the Catholic Church.

Detractors, however, see a sheer political ploy to lure potential voters as Sarkozy’s popularity keeps sinking and the extreme-right National Front is getting a second life under its new leader, Marine Le Pen, the daughter of party founder Jean-Marie Le Pen. While Le Pen’s party performed well in local elections in March, Sarkozy’s party suffered a drubbing.

Muslims have felt stigmatized by the 2004 law banning Islamic headscarves in classrooms and again during the intense debate that preceeded the face veil ban. Muslim leaders are now so irked they have refused any role in the roundtable.

France’s top religious leaders – Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox Christians, Jews, Muslims and Buddhists – published a joint statement last week saying the debate could add “to the confusion in the troubled period we are traversing.”

Sarkozy fired his adviser on integration, Abderrahmane Dahmane, last month for castigating party leader Jean-Francois Cope, who is organizing the talks.

“Cope’s UMP is the plague of Muslims,” Dahmane said in an interview.

Dahmane is a controversial figure who has called on French Muslims to wear a green star Tuesday, similar to the yellow star that Jews were forced to wear under Nazi occupation. Prominent Jewish figures in France have bristled at the comparison.

Another longstanding UMP member tore up his party card in a rage at the Paris mosque. Abdallah Zekri, a member of the High Council of Mosques of France from the southwestern city of Nimes, says Arabs are being targeted.

“Muslims will always be scapegoats,” he said at a Paris news conference. “We no longer talk about immigrants. We talk about Muslims.”

In unusual terms for a secular leader, Sarkozy extolled the virtues of his country’s “Christian heritage” during a recent visit to Puy-en-Velay, the starting point of a famed medieval Christian pilgrimage route.

“Without identity there is no diversity,” the president said. “The (French) republic is secular. It belongs to each citizen without any distinction.”

Muslim women who choose to cover their faces with veils may doubt that they belong.

The measure banning the veil forbids women to hide their faces in public places, even in the streets. It punishes those who defy the law with a fine of euro150 or a citizenship course of both. Anyone discovered forcing a woman to cover her face risks a year in prison and a euro30,000 fine – doubled if the veiled person is a minor.

Authorities estimate at most 2,000 women in France wear the outlawed garment. But for each of them removing the filmy cloth would be an exceptional act.

“Behind this is spirituality,” said Karima, a doctoral student of history with Algerian-born parents. “This law will keep women at home.”

Khosrokhavar predicts that, despite the ban, the status quo will quietly continue for many women, with local authorities turning a blind eye.

The French “have lots of lofty abstract principles” like secularism, he said. “But when it comes to dealing with it concretely, you cope with it.”


Camille Rustici contributed to this report.

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

Why the issue of a veil ban?

We dont give two hoots about earning interest on our bank accounts and investments?

Muslim men do not mind working with ladies in France which are not covered up to Islamic standards - they seem to htink it is ok to look at them as much as you want.

Why has the veil been made so much of an issue?

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

Himalaya,

It's legislation that targets Muslims. It was once allowed. Now it's not. Though it is couched in generic language, only an idot would think it has nothing to do with the presence of an ever growing Muslim minority, who is pesky enough not to wholesale adopt all and every aspect of what locals define (somewhat arbitrarily, it now seems) as being 'French'.

Politics aside, it's a dangerous trend...made all the worse by the fact that real people that probably have no more ambition than earnng a few Euros are going to be impacted.

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France’s Veil Ban Looms

veil is not compulsary in islam,is it :hmmm:

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France’s Veil Ban Looms

Does it matter? To some it is…

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

It is compulsory...

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

^^^ Where? Please provide your source.

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France’s Veil Ban Looms

And that is the nub of the matter, imposing your will on a minority is a bad move by any government unless theres very good reason to do so… and France frankly has no real reason to do this aside from making panga… :chai:

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France’s Veil Ban Looms

I believe there were security concerns that led to this rule being proposed in the first place.

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

Of course there is no doubt all this anti-religion legislation in France is specifically targeted at Muslims. It is the same in the UK where debate abotu NHS, education has stopped but people want to see Burqa's banned.

Still Muslims in France did not mind the uncovered women, the interest on money ....I am not saying they should abandon the veil but Muslims themselves are very selective of which bit of Islam we follow.

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

Born of a jewish mother, Sarkozy is well known to be a very racist person. It is indeed quite strange because he himself is technically an immigrant, but hates immigrants and has done his best to toughen immigration policies to the point of absurdity. However, a particularly nasty twist in all this is that above all, he really hates muslims. He has made it extremely difficult for people from "maghreb" i.e. Morocoo, Tunisia, Algeria to come to France. His racism is bye the way not limited to muslims of maghreb, but the bottomline of his policies is that muslims should be discouraged from living in france.

All this veil issue is just another tactic to instigate muslims. The racist dwarf thinks he will win over rightist votes. However, polls show that french are really pissed at him for a number of reasons including unemployment. I hope that this will be his last tenure. Really looking forward for liberals.

I agree with the comments posted above that this is a dangerous precedence. Today they are banning this, tomorrow, maybe they will vote that every woman should walk around half-naked to express the "french-ship". I think sarko should concentrate about covering his "model" wife with atleast some clothes instead of taking off the veil of muslim women.

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

I can understand that... indeed if Bukaposh were to approach some Military base or secret installations or refuse to remove the viel at Airport to Women security then thats understandable the Viel is an issue but to have a blanket ban sounds like targetting and racism to me. Besides I see no ban on hats, hoodies or ski-masks in public places... the ban specifically says two things in one sentence...

"Muslim" and "veil" thats deliberate instigation. I work for the security industry myself and even if someone was wearing a veil one can still sense trouble from body language and posture... it's a fact that your more likely to succeed in an attempted attack not by disguise or even appearance but by the speed and strength of the attack and the Veil does not increas ones speed or strength capabilities and as a stealth weapon it's hardly any effect in a terrorist setting veil or no veil you can still bust whoevers behind the screen...

As for using it to hide behind while commiting criminal acts... I find balaclavas, Ski Masks, Panto Masks and even the French face painted Mime could be brilliant modes... the ban does not specify any of those so it's clear that the whole idea is against one particular people and is designed to pander the Right Wing.

I am not a massive supporter of the Veil, but I would be making just as much noise if the Authorities banned Gypsie Scarves, Bindiya, Purdah (headscarves/shawls), Jewish Skull caps or even something like dreadlocks.... targeting any minority with a blanket ban is just extremist state terrorism.

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

This is nothing to do with security it is political statement that islam not welcome in france, the far right in france is quite strong, sarqozy and his government wants to win this racist votes by showing he is tough against muslims.

It shows the hypocrisy of democracy you have freedom to wear what you like accept if you are muslim

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

The far right continues to gain hold in France when Taliban-supporting Muslims like yourself continue to live there. Why not move to Saudi Arabia if you hate Western culture and society to begin with? Seems a bit pointless to complain about being persecuted when you support persecution in the name of your faith.

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

Veil is farz that is its compulsory in Islam

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

Gora these also include those women who have converted to Islam if you have any promblem with Islam they dont have and they will fight for Islam we dont need ................ like you tell us to shif to Arabia or not and we will not let west get away after attacking Islam

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

Where has anyone shown support for Taliban? Please stop jumping to conclusions and do provide proof of your view if your going to make sweeping remarks on other GS members, can we please keep name calling to a minimum it's not nice at all.

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

samraz Veil is farz in Islam what do u think that muslim who have been living since 1400 years are stupid that they didnt knew that veil has nothing to do with Islam

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France's Veil Ban Looms

I agree with French Government on this niqab ban issue after reading Zarvan Ali's posts.

Re: Muslim Women Face Choices As France’s Veil Ban Looms

^hahaha Your signatures awesome. :k: