If the Quran is the Complete and Perfect Book, why wouldn't it mention somewhere in the text something as drastic and life-altering as a woman not being allowed to show her face? It's not like that is some small detail.
As I recall, the Taliban used to require women to show their faces for ID photographs. That was the one exception they had to the rule of enforced veiling.
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MUHSINKHAN: Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much
YUSUFALI: Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
Kindly explain your categorization PA. and LETS PLEASE NOT make this another one of your anti hadith threads. ok??
We are explicitly ordered to obey and follow the Prophet. I'm sure you see that in a different light, to me it means following his example and his orders in our daily conduct.
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
used out of context!
The 'example' the Prophet is supposed to present is of following monotheism.. this does not mean adopting his personal clothing preferences or culturally/regionally necessitated dress codes he may have followed.
[/QUOTE]
ammarr
so at mimimum its a debated issue and there are diff schools of thought but there is not concrete undisputed statement that the faces must be covered.
that does not make it "preferred' ..it ay make it "preferred" in some people's views but its not an absolute fact.
I can do hadeeth to hadeeth counter which is not my style. I am sure you are aware of the sayings by the prophet himself that the face does not need to be covered. There will be some hadeeth which may be extrapolated or stretched to show that this is mandated.
btw your logic of following the prophets and his wives examples in this regard is a bit weak. by that token women should not remarry after their husbands have passed away as well..right? whereas there is nothign against marrying widows in Islam.
Mr fraudia
Yes its debatable whether the veil is compulsory or not, however none of the scholars.. (pick scholars from today, or from the taba tabieen such as Abu Hanifa, imaam malik etc) have debated whether it is better... why? Because there are way too many examples from the life of the Prophet and the lives of the companions that women in those days used to cover their faces as a result of the Quranic ayah posted above.
but i do agree, that due to it being a debated issue the face veil can not be made obligatory... wallahu alim.
What a psycho.
Amarr
so no scholar has indeed proven beyond any debate that it is better? The ayah above can be used for any point, but as I noted since the prophets wives did not remarry after his death, does that also serve as an example for the rest of the women..no . not at all.
there are also ahadeeth that note that the prophet himself told women that they dont have to cover their faces.
since it is not obligatory, it is a personal preference. thats it.
Ok, for a moment if we stop analyzing the interpretation of the ayat and look at the actual case, here is a CNN report of May 23, 2003.
Some interesting excerpts:
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Sultaana Freeman, an American-born Muslim woman, lost her license after she refused to remove her veil, or hijab, for a photo. Now she is suing the Florida State Department of Highway Safety for violating a Florida statute that says the government “shall not substantially burden a person’s exercise of religion.”
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the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
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But Florida authorities say the world changed after September 11. After learning that 13 of the 19 hijackers allegedly obtained licenses in Florida, authorities cracked down on the system, hoping to ensure that the DMV photos could remain one of the primary tools used by law enforcement officials for identification.
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Even within the Islamic religion, the form and function of the veil is widely disputed. Some Muslims take a loose interpretation of the verse, believing it does not mandate Muslim women to wear the veil. Others take a strict interpretation. But even then, some women cover only their hair, some cover only part of their face, and some — like Freeman — cover all but their eyes.
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But whether full, half or hair only, the hijab is often an integral part of a Muslim woman’s identity.
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But Florida authorities have geared up to dispute her strict interpretation of the veil, and plan to call an expert witness, Khaled Abou El Fadl, an Islamic law professor at the University of Southern California, to argue that full-face veiling is an Arabic cultural custom, rather than a practice mandated by Islamic law.
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"I’m sure you can get religious scholars to pretty much disagree on anything," said Howard Marks, Freeman’s Florida-based lawyer, who is working on her case pro-bono. It is not the role of a court to be the arbiter of religious scripture."
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“We do not believe the events of 9/11 justify the government’s intrusion to restrict a person’s ability to live by their religious principles and religious beliefs,” said Marks.
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Before September 11, Freeman had a Florida driver’s license with a photo of her in traditional garb. She also had one in Illinois, where she lived before.
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Marks is also seeking to show that his client has been singled out, when, he claims, hundreds of thousands of Florida residents are issued drivers licenses without photographs each year.
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The lawyer says he has precedent on his side, citing three cases brought by Christian sects that believed the second commandment prohibits photographs. And 14 states, not including Florida, have built in exemptions to deal with such religious objections to photographs.
*]“The practice has been to ask the men to leave the room. They lift the veil, we take the picture, they get the license, and they put it in their pocketbook and nobody sees it again,” Vail said. “We don’t care. We just have to have the picture.”
Some really interesting comments there, I would say.
Even in Pakistan with the new NADRA identity cards you are REQUIRED to show your facial features, even if you are a women. Otherwise you will NOT get the card. You can however cover your hair.
Even in Saudi Arabia women do not wear nijab on their IDs.
MS same goes for Saudi Arabia, only b/c girls kept letting other girls go in and take their exams for them and many other troubles 
This is so nonsensical...who cares what religion says? You want to drive then you better show your face! I am sure if they had licenses when Mohamed was alive, he would have allowed taking veil of for photo!
If this is allowed the Sikh will say they want to wear kirpan everywhere and extreme Hindus may say they want to take Trishul (yes yes, Hindu religion does not say so but they will claim it anyway!)
ninja outfit :D
finally a word that fits perfectly
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*Originally posted by IceLander007: *If this is allowed the Sikh will say they want to wear kirpan everywhere
[/QUOTE]
What's wrong with that? In Britain, it's perfectly legal for Sikhs to carry kirpans. They just have to keep them blunt and concealed. As long as these two conditions are met, even if the police catch a Sikh man with a blunt kirpan hidden in his clothes, he cannot be charged with any crime as he would be merely exercising his freedom of belief.
ok…i wear a veil …but i felt ashamed when i read about this lady …coz she has the degree of iman to stand up for the right …i couldn’t do it…!!
n NY Ahmadi don’t worry about her drinking pepsi or whatever …where there is a will …there is a way …!!!
the bad thing about us muslims is …we can incline towards evry unislamic way …n expect no one should dare to say a word …coz its our personal choice …!!!
but when someone is bold enough to do the right thing ,…we would cry the hell out …n will argue just for the sake of arguement
isn’t it her own choice …whatever she is doing …who r all of us to judge 
CORRECT ME IF I AM WORNG BUT I'VE READ IN MANY PLACES THAT HIJAB IS COVERING YOUR ORNAMENRTS. IN FACT I HAVE NEVER READ IT BEING SPECIFICALLY HAIR EITHER. SO IF SHE IS COVERING HER FACE, I THINK MAYBE SHE'S TRYING TO BE AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE, WHICH SHOWS HER FEAR FOR ALLH.
If she is covering her face because of her fear for God, how could she instead display her love for God?
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
If she is covering her face because of her fear for God, how could she instead display her love for God?
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HOW she displays her love to GOD is her personal matter ,, why dont you go ask her ??
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Amarr
so no scholar has indeed proven beyond any debate that it is better? The ayah above can be used for any point, but as I noted since the prophets wives did not remarry after his death, does that also serve as an example for the rest of the women..no . not at all.
there are also ahadeeth that note that the prophet himself told women that they dont have to cover their faces.
since it is not obligatory, it is a personal preference. thats it.
[/QUOTE]
ufff yar had ho gayee :p
Let me explain:
A good explanation of the words of the Quran can be found in the actions of the Prophet and by his companions. AND SINCE THE QURAN DOES NOT SINGLE OUT ANY GARMENT, WE LOOK AT HOW THESE PEOPLE IMPLEMENTED THIS ORDER IN THEIR DAILY LIVES!!!!
Where we find out, that a strikingly large majority, followed the face veil after this order was revealed! NO SCHOLAR (like i said please pick any scholar) disagrees that the veil is considered better.. Due to there being SOME (comparitively little) evidence that a few women did just cover their hair, and not their face, doing the head scarf is considered acceptable.
Ok bhai me out of this thread.. i can not state this in any simpler terms.
btw- the wives of the Prophet did not remarry because certain orders are specific to the Prophet, such as keeping 4+ wives. Once we have the knowledge to distinguish between the khaas (specific) and aam (general) rulings then we can come back to that.. ok?!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by &Talhaa: *
HOW she displays her love to GOD is her personal matter ,, why dont you go ask her ??
[/QUOTE]
I was responding to the post that said she may be dressing like this because of her fear for Allah. It strikes me as odd when people who claim piety and righteousness do so out of fear of God instead of love and respect. Devoutness from fear is not a spirtual relationship, but rather an obligatory one.