It it permissible for a muslim to eat with non muslims who drink wine on the same table?
i heard its not allowed and i have done that before..
if u have the same answer..then do u know why its not allowed??
Re: muslim to eat with non muslims who drink wine
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by KhuShi786: *
It it permissible for a muslim to eat with non muslims who drink wine on the same table?
i heard its not allowed and i have done that before..
if u have the same answer..then do u know why its not allowed??
[/QUOTE]
You should also ask yourself the following questions:
is it permissible for you to sit on the same train or bus as a non-muslim ?
should you be in the same building as non-muslims ?
should you live in a country where the vast majority are non-muslims ?
should you breath the same air as non-muslims ?
You might find 'something written somewhere' by some scholarly persons, but I suggest you have a good think
logically ultimate question to ask is: since more than half of the earth is inhibited by non-muslims, do you need to go to mars to practice your faith freely and completely?
here we have the replies from people who do not show concern about islamic rulings according to allah and his rasul :saw: and here is the reply from a scholar who gives evidence from allah and his rasul :saw: please read and judge for your self.
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=20959&dgn=4
I work for an american company. I am the only muslim. I am forced to be on business trips or functions with people from my work who sometimes drink alcohol. am I doing sin by being with them when I am not drinking or doing anything against my beleives.If I don’t participate in those functions, maybe I will jeopardize my Job.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
Allaah has favoured this ummah over other nations in many matters, chief among which is enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“You (true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad and his Sunnah) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma‘roof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained) and forbid Al‑Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden), and you believe in Allaah”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:110]
What you have to do – as you are the only Muslim in your company, as you say – is to be proud of the teachings ?] of your religion, and strive to apply them, and not to do anything that you are forbidden to do. This is something that will raise you in status and increase your reward. Staying with them even though you are not drinking alcohol yourself is still a sin in itself, because Allaah has commanded us not to sit in places where evil is committed, otherwise what befalls those who are committing the evil action will also befall us.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And it has already been revealed to you in the Book (this Qur’aan) that when you hear the Verses of Allaah being denied and mocked at, then sit not with them, until they engage in a talk other than that; (but if you stayed with them) certainly in that case you would be like them”
[al-Nisa’ 4:140]
“And when you (Muhammad) see those who engage in a false conversation about Our Verses (of the Qur’aan) by mocking at them, stay away from them till they turn to another topic. And if Shaytaan (Satan) causes you to forget, then after the remembrance sit not you in the company of those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers)”
[al-An’aam 6:68]
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever among you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand (by taking action); if he cannot, then with his tongue (by speaking out); if he cannot, then with his heart (by hating it and feeling that it is wrong), and that is the weakest of faith.” Narrated by Muslim, 70.
This denunciation of the heart refers to the stress and agitation that one feels in the presence of evil. This is an individual obligation upon all people in all situations, and they have no excuse for not doing this, because no one has any power over the heart. Staying in a place where evil is being committed goes against this required denunciation.
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
The believer has to fear Allaah with regard to His slaves, but their guidance is not his responsibility. This is what is meant by the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“O you who believe! Take care of your ownselves. If you follow the (right) guidance [and enjoin what is right (Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do) and forbid what is wrong (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden)] no hurt can come to you from those who are in error”
[al-Maa’idah 5:105]
Following right guidance means doing all the obligatory duties. If a Muslim does his duty of enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil, as well as other duties, the misguidance of those who are misguided will never harm him. This may be done sometimes with the heart, sometimes with the tongue, and sometimes with the hand. Denunciation with the heart is obligatory in every situation, because no harm can result from it, and whoever does not do that is not a Muslim, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “And that is the weakest of faith.”
Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 28/127
Moreover the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade sitting at a table where wine is being drunk.
It was narrated that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day, let him not sit at a table where wine is being drunk.”
Narrated by Ahmad, 126; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel, 7/6.
See also the answer to question no. 8957; 6992.
Finally we remind you of the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):
“And whosoever fears Allaah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty).
And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine. And whosoever puts his trust in Allaah, then He will suffice him. Verily, Allaah will accomplish his purpose. Indeed Allaah has set a measure for all things”
[al-Talaaq 65:2-3]
So give up these evil things, and those trips and sitting with those people. Seek the reward for that with your Lord. If this leads to your leaving your job, then you will have a great reward with Allaah and you will find goodness, a way out and provision by His Leave.
And Allaah knows best.
ThandayMazaq,
Now read the responses given here](http://www.islamonline.net/livefatwa/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=3Av3R6) and tell us what you think. I am not endorsing the website, myself, since some answers left me scratching my head too, but they are saying the hadith you quoted for “wine” is not authentic (Wallah o Aalim). The scholar who is giving the responses is Sheikh Muhammad Al-Hanooti from Palestine.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
… here is the reply from a scholar ....
- ....Staying with them [non-Muslim co-workers] even though you are not drinking alcohol yourself is still a sin in itself, .....
- ...So give up these evil things, and those trips and sitting with those people [non-Muslim co-workers]. ... [/QUOTE]
This scholar is a MAToo PiThoo with most "waahayat" (crap) advice for the Pakistanis. This kapoot has no concept of international business and he wants to misquote Quran and Hadees on a completely different time and situation. Quoting single verses and single hadees out of context is typical problem with such MAToo PiThoos.
Who is this scholar any way! who doesn't even want to put his name on this "Fat-wa".
Pakistanis need more international business to provide jobs and work for its people. Travel to and from Europe + US will eventually subject Pakistani businessmen with a group of co-workers who may have a beer or two during the dinner. This wahayat Mullah wants to stop all such interaction. What a peace of crap. You don't like to drink alcohol that is fine.
These Saudi MAToos can live off the oil and throw this crap around for the poor Pakistanis.
Please leave us alone mr. We have already suffered a lot at the hands of Saudi MAToos. Our Pakistani-Shias are getting bombed, Pakistani-Ahamadis are being jailed, and Pakistani-Christians are being killed.
Please give us a break you Saudi Wahabi. We beg you to leave us alone in the name God and his Messenger saw.
We don't need to cleanse our country from every minority like the way you have done in Saudi.
Please have mercy.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
This scholar is a MAToo PiThoo with most "waahayat" (crap) advice for the Pakistanis. This kapoot has no concept of international business and he wants to misquote Quran and Hadees on a completely different time and situation. Quoting single verses and single hadees out of context is typical problem with such MAToo PiThoos.
Who is this scholar any way! who doesn't even want to put his name on this "Fat-wa".
Pakistanis need more international business to provide jobs and work for its people. Travel to and from Europe + US will eventually subject Pakistani businessmen with a group of co-workers who may have a beer or two during the dinner. This wahayat Mullah wants to stop all such interaction. What a peace of crap. You don't like to drink alcohol that is fine.
These Saudi MAToos can live off the oil and throw this crap around for the poor Pakistanis.
Please leave us alone mr. We have already suffered a lot at the hands of Saudi MAToos. Our Pakistani-Shias are getting bombed, Pakistani-Ahamadis are being jailed, and Pakistani-Christians are being killed.
Please give us a break you Saudi Wahabi. We beg you to leave us alone in the name God and his Messenger saw.
We don't need to cleanse our country from every minority like the way you have done in Saudi.
Please have mercy.
[/QUOTE]
You lost me in your first few lines....
Perhaps if you posted messages in a more civil manner people would give your thoughts more time ? and maybe actually listen ?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Maniac: *
You lost me in your first few lines....
Perhaps if you posted messages in a more civil manner people would give your thoughts more time ? and maybe actually listen ?
[/QUOTE]
Actually even then I doubt people would give a ****. Why, because he hasn't got anything to say except to repeat the rants he hears on Fox News.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
... but they are saying the hadith you quoted for "wine" is not authentic (Wallah o Aalim).
[/QUOTE]
If you mean the words, "We don't have any authentic hadith like the one you mentioned..." then it doesn't necessarily mean, as you suggest, that "they are saying the hadith you quoted for 'wine' is not authentic"
... what was more likely meant is, "We are not aware of any authentic hadith like the one you mentioned"
... but one scholar's lack of awareness doesn't cancel out another scholar's knowledge of a hadith and its authenticity
why are u telling me to ask myself these questions????
no offence buh, i asked only one question and "Risky" your exagerating bout this ..if u want me to answer them then all the answers are definatley Yes
all i asked was a simple question "that in islam is it allowed to sit on the same table as someone else who is drinking:alchohol"
.the thing is that i went to a couple of islamic websites and im not stupid but someone asked this question and the answer was No by an islamic scholar
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gupguppy: *
.. but one scholar's lack of awareness doesn't cancel out another scholar's knowledge of a hadith and its authenticity
[/QUOTE]
Sheikh Muhammad Al-Hanooti says nay (nahin).
Who is this tomb of the unknown scholar who said yea (haan)?
Al-Hanooti says go attend a business meeting where alcohol may be served.
Now at least give us the name of the scholar (hiding like a eunuch) who say it is not kosher.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Now at least give us the name of the scholar (hiding like a eunuch) who say it is not kosher.
[/QUOTE]
Engage your brain (for a change) and go to the link already posted above by ThandyMazaq... do you need me to draw you a diagram?
Well, the responses on Islam-qa are generally provided by Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid. Typically I find their interpretations quite narrow, though not necessarily incorrect. Like here, they take quotes that talk about meeting of non-believers where they are “denying and mocking” verses of Allah and apply it to business dinners that have usually no religious discussions, at all. The one relevant quote they have on ‘not sitting on a table where wine is being served’ is a hadith, not from Quran (for those whom that matters). All the while another Sheikh claims he doesn’t have that authentic hadith (the reference is from Muslim, so one would wonder how hard it is to lay their hands on that hadith), and therefore, where it is necessary for knowledge/business purposes to participate in such gatherings, then there’s no harm.
Anyway, thats the gist of it. Make your own conclusions.
By the way, this is a religious discussion, so try to discuss the topic, rather than launching personal attacks on either ThandayMazaq or myself or any one else. Getting to the right answer is more important, but what is even better is to have a courteous and informational discussion.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
All the while another Sheikh claims he doesn't have that authentic hadith (the reference is from Muslim, so one would wonder how hard it is to lay their hands on that hadith)...
[/QUOTE]
?? I think you'll find the reference is actually from Musnad Ahmed... look again...
... it's also one of the largest hadith collections so if one shaykh didn't recall or wasn't aware of a particular hadith from it it shouldn't come as a big surprise
Yeah. Ahmed. Right.
Thandy
It is not about ‘not showing concern about Islamic rulings’ - its about using your head and living in the real world. Sure - have a listen to all those scholars but, bear in mind:
- they are human, and hence are open to bias and error of judgement
- they’re thoughts and perceptions are shaped by their environment and exeprience
- no two interpretations will be the same
- they can be narrow minded, or open-minded, depending on how they’ve developed.
In the end, Allah has given you your most prized gift - your brain. Be accountable for yourself - why follow blindly and let others think for you ?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by KhuShi786: *
why are u telling me to ask myself these questions????
no offence buh, i asked only one question and "Risky" your exagerating bout this ..if u want me to answer them then all the answers are definatley Yes
all i asked was a simple question "that in islam is it allowed to sit on the same table as someone else who is drinking:alchohol"
.the thing is that i went to a couple of islamic websites and im not stupid but someone asked this question and the answer was No by an islamic scholar
[/QUOTE]
786 :
The questions to you weren't flippant - they were an extension of your own question, i.e where do you want to draw the line ? If you are not going to sit on the same table as someone drinking alcohol, then why should you be allowed to be in the same room. What's the significance of the table ? The key fact is, you are mixing with people who drink alcohol, whether they do it in front of you or not. Hence if this is unacceptable to you, then you shouldn't be anywhere near them - you are therefore committing a continous sin by being in the same country. Where do you want to draw the line ?
One other advice - avoid Islamic websites - scholars are bad for your Islamic health. The best medicine is read and listen and use the ultimate gift Allah has given you - your head (with a good mixture of common sense, balance and reason).
The Wisdom of
Muhammad (P.B.U.H.)
"It is better to sit alone than in company with the bad; and it is better to sit with the good than alone. And it is better to speak words to a seeker of knowledge than to remain silent; and silence is better than bad words."
But I think that if ur attendance is neccasary at any meeting like in a situation like then it is permissable, but if u have the option it is better if u didn't, just keep a clean niyyat or intention in ur heart that it is for ur job or other important purpose
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Risky: *
The questions to you weren't flippant - they were an extension of your own question, i.e where do you want to draw the line ? If you are not going to sit on the same table as someone drinking alcohol, then why should you be allowed to be in the same room. What's the significance of the table ? The key fact is, you are mixing with people who drink alcohol, whether they do it in front of you or not. Hence if this is unacceptable to you, then you shouldn't be anywhere near them - you are therefore committing a continous sin by being in the same country. Where do you want to draw the line ?
[/QUOTE]
It is not in our power to live in a country in which there are no non-muslims or kafirs. All Muslims have to deal with them in some way. If there is a table in which people are drinking wine and are doing bad sit alone. If u have the choice and there are other options then take them. But it is not a sin for us to be living in a country with majority non-muslims or other of these kind of circumstances these things are beyond our power. Whichever country or place u live there are bound to be bad people.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Risky: *
One other advice - avoid Islamic websites - scholars are bad for your Islamic health. The best medicine is read and listen and use the ultimate gift Allah has given you - your head (with a good mixture of common sense, balance and reason).
[/QUOTE]
Allah has also given us the Quran. Which we are supposed to refer to, u can't use ur common sense for everything. If i have a question about how i read namaaz or do roza i should ask a scholar or moulana who has studied the Quran, knows these facts, and who's main job is to answer our questions or stuff we have doubts about.
We have all these sources available, and true we have been given common sense and reason, but we can't make up reasons for these questions or doubts we have about religion.