Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
Don't you ALREADY have a thread opened on the same topic?
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
what is labour doing that is so different than what tories might have done?
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
oh btw wool-ass race is a visible statement of seperation and difference, and so is gender would he like to see everyone in a unisex bobcut with some uisex space suit and paint on the face.
Sorry wool-ass but having seen teh ugly side of UK (in addition to the good side) there were plenty of visible statements of sperartion and difference when asians were attacked by skin head thugs and even now when national front barks around.
tackle that wool-ass tackle that
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
Question, do you think teachers should be allowed to dress up in witches garb if they believe that they are witches?
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
I dont trust teachers in any clothes. I think they should all be naked.
same for politicians..
lets address the issue at hand instead of running in tangents. I dont like those skullcaps jews wear either, or turbans that sikhs wear, just like I am not a fan of the veil, but ppl have a right to wear what they want to wear as long as it is not breaking any laws.
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
^^ do people have the right to sack them as well if there's a good reason?
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
So no problem with witch garb ehh? From witch garb to burkas to some other kind of mask, sounds all very distracting...
And saying you'll work with women but not men? That's is a fireable offense in my book.
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
I had nuns teach me in their whole gear .. it was no problem for us .. but then it was a christan church school.
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
:no:
:k:
exactly!!!
:k:
lol…
lol…soo u think wearing tight jeans…n mini-skirts is not distracting @ all:hehe: ..whereas a decent burkha/abaaya is distracting…:aq:
…i’m @ a lost of wordz @ tht…
…pff…but it seriously did make me laugh…
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
So no problem with witch garb ehh? From witch garb to burkas to some other kind of mask, sounds all very distracting...
I dont have an issue unless it is deemed illegal. comparing viel to a witch garb is akin to equating a yarmulke with a KKK hood. Indeed sounds distracting..
And saying you'll work with women but not men? That's is a fireable offense in my book.
well your book seems to have an extra page then. i did not read anywhere that she is not willing to work with men. She is simply stating that she would like to have her veil on when working with men. Now if her veil is interfering in her job performance, then fire her, no issue with that.
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
She should only teach in an Islamic school.
If I was paying taxes in the UK and the school was being funded in part or wholely by a fraction of my tax money, I would have a huge problem with a teacher wearing a face veil. It would be a huge distraction (not just visually, but the attendant hoopla) and would take away from the process of learning (watching the teacher emote etc). My taxes would also pay for her extremely overt display of religious symboloism and the effects of the action....which is not acceptable to me. If it is a publicly funded school, any such displays must be kept to a minimum and not cause a distraction. Regarding wearing of Yarmulkes and Turbans and Crosses and Hijaab scarf....... none of these are worn over the face and or are extremely overt and over the top displays of religious symbolism. For instance if a sikh teacher decided to wear a full size Kirpan over his clothes, or his Kachha over his pants or something like that.... that would be a huge problem for me. Same is the case with a veil wearing teacher. All this is the context of my tax money being used.
If it is such a problem for her, she needs to teach in a school, where the folks who pay her salary do not have a problem with it. If I paid even a fraction of her salary, she would have got a pink slip without discussion.
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
^oii larki, she said she will just wear it front of her male colleagues, not the kids, so all this bs ur saying doesn't work. Aren't the male colleagues mature enough to understand that its part of her religion? And its about how the kids feel and not how the male colleagues want to see her face.
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
sorry, yarmulke, turban, niqab, if you are going to take a stance that religious symbols are out of place in a publically funded school then it does not matter how overt or large these symbols are, they need to go. Make a ruling, make it into a law.
If there is no law on the book then its just one person’s preferences or views. and that carry no weight.
So yes, make a policy that in public institutions religious symbols, clothing etc are nto allowed and thus turban, yarmulke, niqab is not allowed. take the crosses of school seals and crests. and holidays that algn with religious events of particular religious groups need to go as well then. I am all for it. and it does not matter how large or small the item is, if you have a standard rule it applies to everyone..even if the dot on the head of some needs to go.
but do it all the ay not in a half-assed away..
but then what of cultural stuff, ppl in India and Pakistan, of hindu, muslim, sikh, zoroastrian belief all have women who have dupatta on their heads, would that also be not allowed?
In addition she did nto say she would keep her niqaab in front of students, and male colleagues do not need to see her emote now would they?
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
:k:
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
Ok then my vote is no symbolism should be allowed if I have to be extreme. I work too hard for my money, for my tax money to be used for someone else's beliefs.
If they want to wear what is culturally and legally accepted in thier countries of origin (pakistani woman wearing a dupatta, indian woman wearing a bindi), that is fine by me. I aint paying thier salaries in those countries.
Yes in her case it is extreme and overt religious symbolism. There are degrees often of what is acceptable. My money says full veiling aint acceptable!
Yeah, but the hoopla created causes my money to be used (just for example...to pay for a door to the classroom as previously suggested). It also creates a huge distraction. I aint paying for her religious symbolism and its effects. I pay taxes for my kids to be given a secular education in a public school, not for exposure to religious symbolism. If they want that sort of exposure, they can get it in the private sphere where my tax money dosent pay for anything.
Besides which I think she commited fraud during the interview process, if she attended the interview unveiled and did not make it clear that she would be veiled during anytime that taxpayers were paying for her presence in the school. HR should look into that.
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
I dont have an issue unless it is deemed illegal. comparing viel to a witch garb is akin to equating a yarmulke with a KKK hood. Indeed sounds distracting...
I was comparing garb of one religion (Islam) to another religion (witchcraft), you're comparison of Jewish garb to a hate groups garb is disturbing.
well your book seems to have an extra page then. i did not read anywhere that she is not willing to work with men. She is simply stating that she would like to have her veil on when working with men. Now if her veil is interfering in her job performance, then fire her, no issue with that.
Having a seperate set of of rules when working worth a member of the opposite sex is discrimination. In addition facial expressions are an important aspect in the learing process, this has been shown in research. If a male teacher aid is present in class she is saying she can't take the veil off? This is unfair to the children and unacceptable.
Fraudia, this is on the subject but to an extreme, you really wouldn't have a problem with a teacher wearing a full fledge burka? You don't think that would effect your childrens view of females?
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
Ok then my vote is no symbolism should be allowed if I have to be extreme. I work too hard for my money, for my tax money to be used for someone else's beliefs.
okay good, all symbols, anything that has anything to do with any faith..period. why are teachers off on vacation on days of religious significance to them and getting paid for holidays from my tax money. secular bank holidays are fine, but thenlets end the chrsitmas and easter breaks as well.
*If they want to wear what is culturally and legally accepted in thier countries of origin (pakistani woman wearing a dupatta, indian woman wearing a bindi), that is fine by me. I aint paying thier salaries in those countries. *
so now cultural clothing and symbols are out too? so one can not wear a saari to teach, or have bangles?
Yes in her case it is extreme and overt religious symbolism. There are degrees often of what is acceptable. My money says full veiling aint acceptable!
Religious symols are religous symbols, take em all out, or keep em all in.
*Yeah, but the hoopla created causes my money to be used (just for example...to pay for a door to the classroom as previously suggested). *
had you steppred into a school in england you would know that there are doors to the room, so no one is paying for a door. thank you. my comment was more sarcstic than anything.
It also creates a huge distraction. I aint paying for her religious symbolism and its effects. I pay taxes for my kids to be given a secular education in a public school, not for exposure to religious symbolism. If they want that sort of exposure, they can get it in the private sphere where my tax money dosent pay for anything.
actually your tax money does go to private institutions in terms of grants etc. but that is a whole diff deal.
Besides which I think she commited fraud during the interview process, if she attended the interview unveiled and did not make it clear that she would be veiled during anytime that taxpayers were paying for her presence in the school. HR should look into that.
Unless thre were explicit polciies regarding the veil, she did nt commit fraud. It seems odd to me too that she went for the interview without one and wants one now, at the same time, people change their views on life change and as long as they are not breaking some policy or rule, there should be no issue with that. So unless there as a question asked on it which was answered incorrectly or unless there was a stated policy, no law has been broken and no fraud has been committed.
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
*I was comparing garb of one religion (Islam) to another religion (witchcraft), you're comparison of Jewish garb to a hate groups garb is disturbing. *
just like your comparison is disturbing to me, a comparison of a religious group to that of a group that the group in question calls the occult. anyways I see your point and apologise, I did not intend to equate the great religion of judaism with the KKK bigots in any way shape or form.
If society at large considers wiccan a religion and someone wants to wear clothes that are part of what the wiccan religion says, they can do so..unless they are breaking any rules and regulations.
*Having a seperate set of of rules when working worth a member of the opposite sex is discrimination. *
sure..
*In addition facial expressions are an important aspect in the learing process, this has been shown in research. If a male teacher aid is present in class she is saying she can't take the veil off? *
If a male teacher aid is present, sure I think u have a point there.
*Fraudia, this is on the subject but to an extreme, you really wouldn't have a problem with a teacher wearing a full fledge burka? *
I have never been in favour of a burqaa, that is besides the point. What I like or dislike does not have anything to do with the debate here. The point simply is that she is breaking no law, no rule. If they want to create some equitable rules then do it, but demonising her is not right.
While I personally dont think that either burqaa or niqaab are required by religion, I have to respect someone's right to wear them when and where they choose, whether or not I likeit, unless theya re breaking the law or rules.
You don't think that would effect your childrens view of females?
Just like I am going to try and make sure that my children's view of females, or males for that matter, is not going to be impacted by rap videos, dolled up centerfold wanna be teachers, skimpy clothed objectified cheer leaders, loutish male behavior in sports etc.. I would try to make sure that one more thing like this does not effect their views.
Re: Minister says veil teacher should be sacked
^ Just to make it clear, she is just a teaching assistant, she is not a teacher please dont call her a teacher because she is only allowed to work under the supervision of a teacher, she cant be alone with the class, teacher must be present with her inside class, teacher are qualified and professional and honoured people not the case with a teaching assistant, they are not required to have a degree or any specific training to do the job of teaching assistant, they are even paid very less than a teacher, teacher's code of conduct doesnt apply to them in a school. Students dont call her a teacher but an assistant, they are for supporting teaching, I dont know how they dared to write a word "teaching" that must be support for teaching.