Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy [Merged]

Some good news…

WPH
By Sana Abdallah
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Published July 6, 2005

AMMAN, Jordan – Over 170 Muslim scholars, thinkers and historians agreed Wednesday to forbid “takfeer,” or accusing other Muslims of apostasy, and decided to work out a criteria for issuing fatwas – religious edicts – in an attempt to unify the eight schools of Islamic thought and put an end to violence done in the name of the religion.

The decision came in an unprecedented fatwa issued by leading clerics from the eight schools of Islamic jurisprudence following three days of deliberations in the Jordanian capital, Amman, where scholars from over 40 countries gathered in the first International Islamic Conference. 

 
Dubbed "True Islam and its role in modern society," the conference was a Jordanian attempt to repair the image of Islam amid growing violence being carried out in the name of the religion and the U.S.-led counterattack in its war against terror -- where Islam and terrorism have almost become synonymous. 
 
While the final communiqué of the conference made no clear reference to violence, it tried to limit the religious approach used by militants to justify their violence through regulating the interpretation of Islam and issuing religious edicts. 
 
The final statement said the "schools of jurisprudence within Islam means adhering to a fundamental methodology in the issuance of fatwas: No one may issue a fatwa without the requisite personal qualifications which each school of jurisprudence defines." 
 
It added that "no one may issue a fatwa without adhering to the methodology of the schools of jurisprudence and no one may claim to do absolute Ijtihad (interpretation) and create a new school of jurisprudence or to issue unacceptable fatwas that take Muslims out of the principles and certainties of Sharia (Islamic law)." 
 
Mainstream clerics have complained about what they call "religious chaos" that has been growing since the late 1980s, in which Salafi militants -- those who have resorted to armed jihad -- have used interpretations and fatwas of clerics aggravated by the continued Israeli occupation of Palestine, the U.S. policies in the region, and more recently, the war on terror and the American occupation of Iraq. 
 
The Islamic conference's final statement made no political references and did not condemn terrorism against civilians, possibly to avoid opening a Pandora's Box and to give credibility to these scholars who are seeking to win over the confidence of those who have resorted to violence and extremism. 
 
Participants at the conference said had the issue of condemning violence by Islamic militants been brought up, then condemning the violence of the U.S. forces in Iraq and the violence of the Israeli forces in Palestine could not be ignored. 
 
However, the statement clearly referred to the "takfeer" approach adopted by militants and their religious guides. 
 
It said that anyone belonging to one of the eight schools of thought in the Sunni and Shiite sects, as well as those who practice "true Sufism" (banned in most Muslim countries) is considered a Muslim and cannot be declared an apostate and therefore "his or her blood, honor and property are sacrosanct." 
 
And what appears to be an attempt to avert the wrath of the Salafi militants and to try to attract them to the teachings of "true Islam," the scholars said it was also "not possible to declare whosoever subscribes to true Salafi thought an apostate." 
 
However, many factors are directly linked with the rise of Islamic militancy, primarily regional political conditions, the lack of freedom and democracy in their respective countries and poverty. 
 
Joseph Lumbard, an American Muslim and special advisor to Jordan's King Abdullah on interfaith affairs, insists that addressing the religious factors is the most important way to uproot violence by simply referring to only one thing: Islam. 
 
"It is clearly unacceptable in Islam's dictates of law to kill non-combatants," he said, adding that the fatwa issued by the scholars in Amman might "put doubt in the minds" of militants that listen to the edicts issued by those going against the dictates of Islamic law. 
 
He told journalists the conference and the final fatwa (statement) was "just a first step...the religious component needs to be addressed on a religious basis, and this is what this conference is doing." 
 
But Lumbard acknowledged that more work and effort needed to be made on all fronts -- political, social and economic -- and to combine all these efforts to address the totality of the problem of violence. 
 
So how much influence will these scholars have on the angry religious zealots who are wreaking havoc, especially that their militancy is being fueled by the U.S.-led war on terror that President Bush launched as a "crusade" in the aftermath of 9/11? 
 
Farouk Jarrar of Aal al-Bayt Foundation, an Islamic think tank that organized the conference, believes they have a lot of influence on the ground. 
 
He said that "some of these people in there have their television shows and their websites, they are highly influential. If they say that killing civilians is against Islam and must stop, it will stop," or at least decline. 
 
But it might not be so simple, considering all the elements involving Islamic militancy. 
 
Lumbard, however, believes that if results of this conference puts one doubt in one militant's mind that he is doing something wrong and it stops one car bombing, "then we have succeeded."

Re: Muslim scholars ‘forbid’ labeling apostasy

Good start :clap:

Re: Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy

as if those hell bent on accusing Muslims of apostasy could give a brass farthing about such edicts

rules like "No one may issue a fatwa without the requisite personal qualifications" are absolutely meaningless to the "militants" they are targeting

Re: Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy

Anything that makes us snuggle closer to the kuffar seems so nice and warm...

If the Fatwa was about growing a beard or wearing a Hijab, everyone would be in arms...:D

Re: Muslim scholars ‘forbid’ labeling apostasy

As I said in another thread yesterday, there are far bigger issues facing the muslim ummah than beard, hijab or whether it is ok to kiss your hands and eyes. Some muslims will, ofcourse, spend their entire lives criticizing other muslims about minor issues and completely lose focus of the larger meaning of Islam and the issues facing the ummah.

Anyway, this love-fest by 170 muslim scholars held in Amman may be an interesting event, but as gupguppy pointed out, it remains to be seen how much affect will it have on the targetted population i.e. those muslims who subscribe to edicts of violent jihad on civilians to take revenge. A few weeks ago, many Pakistani scholars also joined hands and issued a fatwa that suicide bombing in Pakistan is out of bounds of Islam. I am not sure how much impact it had on perspective suicide bombers. Those who indulge in such activities largely discount the knowledge and objectivity of these so-called muslim scholars.

Re: Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy

There is no Islamic empire anymore. Therefore, the bridge between religious decisicions (ex. fatwas) are not being bridged to actual human actions. In other words, there is no executive force with which to carry out these orders.

There is no protocol or system by which Muslim governments will execute these fatwas, either.

So the fatwa today, is basically nothing more than a press statement.

Re: Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy

PCG..I disagree..Fatwas were never meant to be acts which a government was supposed to neccessarily enforce..the collapse of even a nominal Khilafat in the 1920s has created a vacuum where anyone can issue a fatwa and claim legitimacy for themselves...this (in Faisals words) "love fest" is a step in the right direction..

Re: Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy

^ Indeed, its a step in the right direction. I didn't say it wasn't. I said that its not going to be much effective in showing an actual change in the actions of people. Fatwas are of no use unless most of your population actually listens to them.

Now, how many muslims out there probably even knew that this meeting had taken place?

PR, man, its all about PR.

Re: Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy

O you who believe! Take not for Auliyâ' (protectors or helpers or friends) disbelievers instead of believers. Do you wish to offer Allâh a manifest proof against yourselves? (An-Nisa 4:144)

all those so called "scholars" who have taken the kings and presidents of kafir regimes in muslim countries fall under this verse....they have taken gods besides Allah...wallah o alam.

because in surah yousuf,the king was called the "RABB" or LORD of the servant who obeyed the king rather than Allah...

"O two companions of the prison! As for one of you, he (as a servant) will pour out wine for his lord (king or master) to drink; and as for the other, he will be crucified and birds will eat from his head. Thus is the case judged concerning which you both did inquire." (Yusuf 12:41)
And he said to the one whom he knew to be saved: "Mention me to your lord (i.e. your king, so as to get me out of the prison)." But Shaitân (Satan) made him forget to mention it to his Lord [or Satan made [(Yûsuf (Joseph)] to forget the remembrance of his Lord (Allâh) as to ask for His Help, instead of others]. So [Yûsuf (Joseph)] stayed in prison a few (more) years. (Yusuf 12:42)

so the "Fatwas" of these govt. paid clerics or should i say clerks is of no islamic importance.

Muslim scholars move to curb fatwas

good!

Re: Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy [Merged]

ThandyMazak, then all of us are sinners, because there is not one goddam regime on this planet as of now that is not kaafir.

What are these poor mullahs to do then? Take over Aruba and settle the Mullah Dynasty there?

Re: Muslim scholars ‘forbid’ labeling apostasy [Merged]

scholars are different than ordinary muslims in sense that they have knowledge and thus they must pay for that knowledge by being firm and open against those regimes. ordinary muslims can live in countries who are run by kafir countries and dont have to openly be against them, but if one chooses to be a scholar, it is their duty to clearly state the islamic perspective and be firm against them. dont become a scholar if you cant take the heat. all those ppl might have memorized all the books out there, but if they are not willing to stand up to the truth then all of the knowledge is like loading books on a donkey, which does not get any benefit from those books but only takes them from one place to another…

The likeness of those who were entrusted with the Taurât (Torah), but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is as the likeness of a donkey who carries huge burdens of books (but understands nothing from them). How bad is the example (or the likeness) of people who deny the Ayât of Allâh. And Allâh guides not the people who are Zâlimûn (polytheists, wrong-doers, disbelievers, etc.). (Al-Jumu’ah 62:5)

Re: Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy [Merged]

^ saying they should stand up against atrocity is one thing, saying that they should not live in any kaafir country is another.

Re: Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy [Merged]

Best get that timeshare on the moon huh?

Re: Muslim scholars ‘forbid’ labeling apostasy [Merged]

actually what i said was that they should not submit to the kafir rulers.
those so called scholars continually justify defend and protect the rulers with their fatwas and then wonder why true muslims dont care about them or their fatwas. i dont wanna bring names of dead scholars, but there are some “wahabi” scholars who stood with the king in all matters and then ppl wonder why do people deride them and do not respect them with titles such as “shayk ul islam”…only the blind do not see the rampant boot licking by these so called scholars.
one idea for them…stop talking about issues if you are not going to take the correct stand and just go on the sidelines…stop defending the actions of the rulers or only say a few lines of criticism mixed in with a million lines of justifications for their filthy rulers

Re: Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy [Merged]

How do you know all 170 scholars from over 40 countries stand with kafir all matters? If is some do, does that negate all of their wisdom? So who is allowed to make fatwas - only those who oppose all governments and only preach about their overthrow and establisment of khilafah?

Re: Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy [Merged]

^ True indeed. And the ones that preach about overthrow and establishment of khalifah aren't any good either, because the parties that are demanding overthrow and khalifah are corrupt themselves.

Find me one group that is working honestly in the name of Islam and trying to achieve political power and we'll talk.

Re: Muslim scholars ‘forbid’ labeling apostasy [Merged]

i would say al qaeda is an honest non corrupt organization working for the establishment of islamic state. they are honest because they openly say what they intend to do and who their targets are. they are non corrupt because if they had corrupt ppl inside the org. OBL,Ayman, Zarqawi, and all those leaders would have been caught cuz of $25 mil. bounty on their head, so the org. does not have ppl who are going to be manipulated by the desire of money.

but since u might not agree with them, then i guess not many groups r out there except for AQ who are sincerely working for muslims, so just be on your own with regards to your religion, cuz most of the ppl r callers at the gates of hell fire.

Re: Muslim scholars ‘forbid’ labeling apostasy [Merged]

if they were to openly say that ruling by other than what allah has revealed, then they would not be allowed in jordan. jordan is one of the most strictest countries wrt ppl who might be even remotely a danger to the throne. well out of the 170 scholars, a lot of them might be sincere, but it doesnt mean we take their words as divine cuz govt. know how to coerce fatwas from the scholars, ever heard of bin baz ? he was a scholar indeed but the saudis knew how to manipulate him and he ended up giving fatwas that no muslim could ever think of. such as allowing ameican soldiers inside the kingdom to “DEFEND” islamic holy sites.

Re: Muslim scholars 'forbid' labeling apostasy [Merged]

Al Qaeda???????????????????

laughs my arse off

Wow...I do not think that an organization that commits mass murders of innocent civilians is the right answer...

I can't believe you just promoted that filthy group.

And yes, thandymazaq, maybe you should also keep your eye on your own religion, as you say most will be in hell...