Maybe the MAB will learn the most basic lesson in life. Which is never be friends of your enemies friends. eg MAB being freinds of the UK govt who in turn support the massacres and aid the illegal state of isreal.
The MAB consists of BRITISH Muslims, therefore we have to deal with the British govt and lobby them not to support our enemies. MAB are not their 'friends' they have to interact with the UK govt in order to influence them.
What would you have us do, clubber lang, nothing?
aafeen
I not too familiar with your organisation but it sounds similar to MCB if i am wrong then i apologize.
But you trying to influence british society calling for your rights whatever is fine but you trying to influence british government then you really wasting your efforts. This british government is the very government that works against muslims the world over in fact supplies military equipment to the israelis.
The British government base every action on material benefit nothing else matters human right, international law etc is meaningless to them.
How many laws has there israeli buddies broken hundreds do you see them threatning miitary action on the israelis for breaking un laws no chance.
You should instead work for the real solution to solve the problems of the muslims by establish the islamic state that will protect the muslims. Because belive me the british government dont give a damn if u live or die as long as it does'nt affect them they don't care.
Ofcourse Ak 47 would propagate the usual argument ie wait for Khilafah and do nothing until then…but there are 3 million Muslims in the UK and many of us do not want to sit and do nothing. We want to be represented make our views known and make Britain into part of a dar-ul-amal.
There are only three Muslim MP’s in the British parliament, compared with many many more Jewish Mp’s (although we outnumber Jews ten-to-one) and over a hundred MP’s are members of Labour Friends of Israel (thats just in the Labour party). Are there any Friends of Islam/Palestine/Pakistan etc?
No ofcourse not because people like Ak 47 want to do nothing and leave MP’s to be influenced by the Zionist lobby…we have the potentinal to change this situation.
MPAC is a MUSLIM lobby which is attempting to represent Muslim concerns in Parliament, in the media, in Islamic Student unions, highlight the threat of Islamaphobia and increase Muslim representation in such spheres. We have made a difference on issues such as arms to Israel, getting MP’s to oppose a war on Iraq and defending those attacked by the Zionists. We advocate ‘dawah’ through activism…
If those other than Ak47 wish to improve the lot of British Muslims pls join us…for more info see
http://www.connect2web.com/projects/mpac/version2/about_mpac.htm
Join our mailing list and make up you own mind…
Aafreen
keep up the good work attacking muslims and ridiculing islamic concepts will get you very far not :nono:
we have 15,000 people on our maling list already...
do you think Muslims are above ridicule even when they are underachieving esp in the UK? And i havent ridiculed any Muslim concept...pls continue to misunderstand to justify your own position if you wish....everything i have said is substantiated..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aafreen: *
ie wait for Khilafah and do nothing until then...
[/QUOTE]
is ridiculing it you trying to say don't bother going for correct solution because in your opinion it too long and basically and lets join mr kafir bandwagon
I'm all for the correct solution and i pray for it, but in the meantime i want to do something more practical, i reserve the right to lobby, to contact my MP, to admonish the media for being anti-Islamic, to join a political party and advocate the Muslim point of view, to defend those that defend my Palestinian brothers and sisters, to join rallies and protests...this is not jumping into the kafir bandwagon!
To call a Muslim and kafir so easily is also not very coherent...
I do not wish to engage in a debate with you i know your HT point of view.....my time is better spent working with MPAC.
I just want to invite everyone else to have a look at our work and join in if they want...we dont throw around 'kaffir' accusations as easily and falsely as Zionists throw around anti-semitic ones...we are about active Islam not accusatory Islam....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aafreen: *
I'm all for the correct solution and i pray for it, but in the meantime i want to do something more practical,
I do not wish to engage in a debate with you i know your HT point of view.....my time is better spent working with MPAC.
[/QUOTE]
you do not wish to debate hmmmm intresting defeated before you even get to the battlefield how you expect to influence the kafir government of united kingdom with such a defeated mentality.
Secondly allah(swt) gave us practical deen which is applicable 1400 years ao and is applicable today. for you to say restablishment of khilafah is impracticle you are contradicting the sayings of muhammad(saw).
Nobody called nobody a kafir you obviously have trouble reading my statements i said "joining the kafir bandwagon" i.e working with the kafir governments and working through the incorrect method.
If you want to account the israelis and there supporters the british government then fine but if your offering a practicle solution lobbying the very beast thats causes the problem is'nt gonna solve the problem.
same old argument..been there done that…anyway your not in Britain so there isnt any point debating with you, rile me up as much as you can. (And i didnt say the Prophet’s (SAW) teachings are impractical, astaghfirullah, some people will always willfully misunderstand)
Those people who are interested pls see the fatwa i requested at islamonline.
http://www.islam-online.net/fatwaapplication/english/fatwatoken.asp
ref number: 74VBLU
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aafreen: *
Anyway your not in Britain so there isnt any point debating with you.
[/QUOTE]
If your now saying the method is practical then fine.
If i am in china or peru does'nt matter we are one ummah not 55 different ones.
If you don't want to debate then khalas
one final point looking at your internet hukm i see one of the solutions for palestine given is:
. We must offer charities for the relief of the suffering. While doing so it is important to feel the pain and suffering they are going through right now as if we ourselves were being personally hurt.
I have a question to you have you ever been to palestine if you have'nt i suggest you ask the next person from palestine do you want food and charity to help palestine and tell me what there answer is ok.
Afreen
dont waste your time with HT and Mohajiroun folks :) They can bicker, complain and argue till the cows come home. Talk abotu practical plans, annual plans, long term goals, achievements and all, and you will be attacked left right and center.
I think your group is doing a good job and not just sitting around distributing pamphlets and waiting for 'ansaar'
yeah sit in armchair and complain instead 
quite rich coming from a meber of a group which has done diddly squat in the last 50 years.
as far as sitting and complainging the work that i do makes real changes in the life of real people on a daily basis. Not hosting useless conferences and tyiong msgs to balloons which will not fly.
You want to prove me wrong about HT, i will be very very happy to be proven wrong. how about submitting the following.
- grand plan as envisioned by tthe founder of HT 50 some odd years ago
- 5 year plans, and how they support the long term goals, annual plans, intermediate milestones. How well were they met
- organization structure. including justification for the secret halqas.
- any material put forth by HT showing their goals, plans and accomplishments on an annual basis. and these have to be specific,measureable, repeatable sort of achievments. None of that “we wrote 15 open letters” and handed out umpteem thousand leaflets
diddly squat really hmmm thats intresting i like millions of others would’nt have heard of khilafah or islamic civilasation if it was’nt for hizb ut tahrir, i have studied all islamic groups and none of them make any sense except this one. You in america right hmmmm thats great step in the right direction 
tell me what have you done in last 50 seconds let alone 50 years on second thoughts i already know its keeping that armchair warm.
As for balloons that don’t fly boy how old are you i think your stuck past my friend this ain’t 1990 its 2002.
So tell me what you have to offer apart from armchair criticism. Here your opportunity my man either put up or shut up that what you americans like to say so come on I challenege you!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
is ridiculing it you trying to say don't bother going for correct solution because in your opinion it too long and basically and lets join mr kafir bandwagon
[/QUOTE]
Those that dont play khalifah khalifah are part of the kafir bandwagon eh?
I thought u werent a Hizb supporter 
How many flyer have you distributed?
AA, Fraudz,
jazakallah khair for your encouraging comments. Yes, i know theres no point arguing with HT/Al-M people. They can be very irrational, recently at the anti-war rally in London they went around with orange and black t-shirts,with ‘reject’ written on them. They were being very disruptive, butting in,not allowing others to talk to people, they give the impression of such a negative and irrational group, just wanting to debate not really do anything practical. I know hundreds of people who HT managed to convince in their college years but as soon they these bros and sisters matured they left the group.
Also HT used to blast Muslims who were politcally active as kafir, now when their own members have been tortured in Egypt they have circulated emails asking people to write to their MP’s calling for the British government to intervene and rescue the brothers. However i was shouted at by a HT member because i said we should write to our MP’s asking them to put pressure on the Govt to condemn the pogrom in Gujarat. Not very coherent dont you think, much like our friend ak47.
what does he mean by ‘You in america right hmmmm thats great step in the right direction’ (?!)
Fraudz, since you are American you may be aware of this scholars writings but i thought i would post them anyway.
http://www.iiie.net/Articles/HizbAtTahrir.html
http://www.iiie.net/Articles/MuslimPolPart.html
Its a very convincing argument.
Also Fraudz i hope you are involved in Cair they are doing some great work.
ws, aaf
*Originally posted by ak47: *
*diddly squat really hmmm thats intresting i like millions of others would’nt have heard of khilafah or islamic civilasation if it was’nt for hizb ut tahrir, *
**every sunday school talks about khilafah. grade 4 islamiat in all pakistani schools talk about khilafa
and youbare telling me your parents did not tell you about the khilafah? surprising..mine did, decades before I even knew that HT existed **
*i have studied all islamic groups and none of them make any sense except this one. *
**yeah planning makes no sense, having goals makes no sense, having real results makes no sense, making real impact makes no sense..eh
and thats the downfall of HT. Thnking they are the only ones doing anythign worthwhile. I on the othe rhand think there are tons of groups doing good work. **
*You in america right hmmmm thats great step in the right direction tell me what have you done in last 50 seconds let alone 50 years on second thoughts i already know its keeping that armchair warm. *
**i have not been around for 50 years, as far as last 50 seconds, i wasted my time reading your response. **
*So tell me what you have to offer apart from armchair criticism. Here your opportunity my man either put up or shut up that what you americans like to say so come on I challenege you! *
**I think i asked a few questions, before you challenge me to put up or shut up, why dont you bring some answers to those questions first
or you have No answers to those questions. Dunn worry you are a foot doldier, i have posed the same question to head honchos of Ht and they have only backed off and gone of on all tengents rather than answer the simple questions.
But since you asked. here are two things out of many that were *accomplished in august 2002. * **
In the reporting month of August 2002 HDF has taken 4 new units, two in Mardan and the other two in Shamsabad Region. Now HDF is working in 12 units (one HDF unit = 1,000 households) serving a population of 116,000.
In collaboration with Pakistan Council of Renewable Energy & Technology (PCRET), HDF installed Bio Gas Plants in 8 Villages of its Rahim Yar Khan Region.
How about some highlights of 2001
In year 2001 the number of units where HDF has its projects increased from 3 to 8. One unit is equal to about one thousand households. The two new sites that were added were Karachi Katchi Abadi and Zhob, Baluchistan. Karachi project is the first urban project. Zhob brings a new set of challenges, being one of most conservative areas in Pakistan; HDF staff will have to work very carefully to create community awareness about education of girls and involvement of women in HDF project.
Education
The number of schools increased from 41 to 96
The number of students has increased from 1,350 to 2,829. As usual girls (1,672) outnumber boys (1,157)
One reason the children drop from the primary schools in Pakistan is the teaching methods. HDF is striving to make learning an enjoyable activity for young children. We hope that this will result in higher retention of students in schools
One of the hallmarks of HDF schools is very active Parent Teacher Associations. There are 67 PTAs at this time, 39 for women and 28 for men
HDF charges a minimal fee of Rs. 5-10 per month per child. This amount goes into School Management Fund. This has reached a total amount of Rs. 116,892. This will ultimately form the basis for the sustainability of the schools.
Adult literacy program is a new feature of HDF projects. It was started during the third quarter in 2001. At this time there are 8 adult literacy centers with a total enrollment of 87, 45 being women and 42 men.
Teachers’ training is an important feature. There were 13 such workshops, 6 in joy-full learning, 6 in adult literacy, 1 in basic teachers training and 1 in multi-grade teaching.
Social Organization
The concept of Development Organization (DO), which is the community based organization, and participation of the community members through them is the backbone of HDF projects.
It is through these community organizations that the micro-credit program is managed and PTAs are formed.
The number of DOs increased from 98 to 250
The total number of participants increased from 2,000 to 4.176 (women 1,935 and men 2,241)
One new concept that was introduced is VDO or Village Development Organization. Whereas the focus of a DO is the individual household and individual members of the community, the VDO focuses on the overall development of the village. At this time there are 10 VDOs
DOPoP is an organization of the really poor and destitute members of the community is another new program. The challenge here is that these people not only lack resources and skills, they also lack the will to improve their condition. It takes a lot of effort on part of the HDF staff to get these people motivated and engaged. So far 2 such organizations have been formed. One loan of Rs. 1000 has been issued to one of the women to start a confectionery business.
Micro-enterprise program
This program consists of two parts.
Micro-credit:
So far total number of credit disbursed is about Rs. 11 million
Total number of borrowers are 1,012 with 295 women and 717 men
Members of the community are encouraged to save money on a regular basis. Total savings by the community increased from Rs 100,000 to Rs. 595,409, with Rs. 277.905 for women and Rs. 317,504 for men
Members of the DO have started internal lending thus reducing their dependency on HDF.
HDF is conducting a survey in Mardan Region to find out the impact of HDF credit and enterprise program. Report should be available in Feb.
HDF has succeeded in establishing first enterprise in Zhob region. This will open the doors for the other members.
Skills Training workshops:
The purpose of these workshops is to enhance the earning capacity of people.
Total number of workshops carried out so far is 170
Total number of participants is 2,462 with 1,884 women and 578 men
Health
HDF health program focuses on the women and children. It is mainly a preventive health care program. This is carried out with the collaboration of APPNA SEHAT program. The activities are mainly education of the community in prevention of diseases by clean drinking water, immunization of children against all childhood diseases, tetanus immunization of all women of childbearing age, and prevention and early detection of complication of pregnancy and referral of such cases to physicians.
Shahab Zai Dam
Shahabzai dam is the largest community built dam in Pakistan. This accomplishment was possible through hard work, dedication, and collaboration of Pakistani Americans under the auspices of the Human Development Foundation (HDF) and the people Shahabzai.
This is a delay action dam. The construction of the dam started in October 2000 and it was completed in July 2001. The total cost came to be about Rs. 2.2 million ($35,000). The community contributed Rs. 150,000 ($2,500.00) in the form of free labor. The total catch-ment area of the dam is 12 Square Kilometer while the length is 1400 feet. Total capacity of the dam is 26.5 million gallon of water. The height of the embankment is 58 feet.
It is estimated that total of 10,000 people from 50 villages will benefit from this dam. In the case of a “Delay Action” dam like this one the benefit of the dam is dependent upon rains. The rainy water flows down and gathers in a huge pool. This not only saves water fir irrigation purposes but it also raises the underground water table.
Spock back from your trip abroad huh
I support the idea of khilafah and one islamic state with one leader which is hukm shariah. Reading literature from Ht or jamat islamiah or whoever does’nt make you memeber of a group!