Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

yes , much of it is fundamentally incompatible with Islam . By todays standards of pedophilia can you disagree? heck, christians practiced same back then but as society became enlightened many christians realized that by today's standards and the need for a human to have a child hood it is a pedophilic practice and many christian countries stopped this atrocious practice of stealing a young girls childhood and giving off to an old man. A 45 year old male getting stimulated by a little girl is ewwww , gross and sick. married or not.

islam must be defeated as you state Hirsi Ali stated----- well , let's say it must be reformed as it is practiced if not then the option she gives will be the only option. Survival of other belief systems have undergone reformation. Roman Catholicism is still encouraged to reform and adapt , christianity as a whole has gone through several enhancements to be relevant in modern society and I see Islam having and must do same. Islam like the other judeo christian faiths began in a time where much was based on tribal mentality and not intellectual enlightenment. However, i see a thousand years from now people will be increasingly educated in numbers and new age spirituality will gain numbers over organized religion as we have known it up to now. It is well proven , many religions and beliefs existed prior to Abraham and naturally history repeats itself and therefore the obvious course is perhaps in a thousand years or a couple thousand new faiths/spiritual belief system will dominate the minds. But the question of apostate versus atheism is not discounted as I pursue my university education. I am a proponent of civil law, assimilation over religious law and not self imposed segregation.

But I do a lot of reading and have travelled and volunteered abroad to see how much of what Hirsi Ali brings to the discussion table is very much practiced and prevalent to the detriment of society and it should be condemned and exposed as Ms ALi does.

And i have every right to question the suppressive subjugation of women under islam and to voice strong resentments and to make it available to many who do not realize the extent of mysogyny.

I encourage liberal thinking .

I do encourage you to read also Taslima Nasrin. Wonderful , insightful and a woman of great insight and knowledge about all that is wrong and a sham.

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

You failed to answer my question.

If that's really what you believe, why do you bother identifying as Muslim?

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

So when it comes to christians doig some BS, its about culture, when its some muslim doing some BS, its about Islam.

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

uberalles,

[quote]
Some women sadly even say its the will of Allah , to be obedient and do without question as paradise awaits. sad thinking really. live miserably as its the islamic way , be happy when dead. I guess religion is truly to make the sufferers stay in their place and not question why they can't have more ---- a useful power tool over the meak and meak afterall. I believe this is religions mandate the more I study.
[/quote]

there is nothing in islam that prevents a woman who is being abused by her in-laws from applying for a divorce , and even before that there are many inherent safeguards in the institution of marrige in islam which can be elaborated more by the knowledgable people here.This kind helplessness that u r describing arisies more out of ignorence of islamic laws and social pressures in women more than anything else

on the other hand Hirsi Ali has clearly said that the problem is not a perversion of islam but the very puritin values of islam itself , her attacks have been centered not at the interpretation of Sunnah , but the sunnah and the person ] of the Prophet[pbuh] himself.

As janab-e-Ali said that clearly puts you out of the fold of islam , and as a muslim generally speaking divine laws takes precedence over any other man made laws interpretation of which can vary obviously]

so do u believe that Muhammad [saw] was a Prophet of God or u dont?

because it totally changes the picture .....

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

[quote]

Yes, I agree some women do, but these women are usually not that well informed or knowledgeable...

[/quote]

On the contrary, they're quite sophisticated and aggressive. Of course, if they don't agree with you...they MUST be ignorant, right? Well, I'm afraid it doesn't quite work that way.

So again, where does that leave your argument?

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

not again

When will haters learn that there is a difference between Islam and Muslims! Atheists simply get away with this because they say "every atheist has different believes" even though all of them rant about same moral codes.


How do you define little/young girl, and adult man/woman? Why do you think it is sick or gross or whatever? In today's society, even 20 years old is considered young, does it mean he/she is not adult! The word "young" is so broad and varies from society to society! When two adults do not have problem with intimating with each other legally and legitimately, who are you to say anything about it! It amazes me how people (not you) have no problem with people doing it illegitimately whatever they want but if someone does it legitimately then they have problems with age.

Do you know what else is interesting? The so called Muslims, who later become apostate, act like they know everything about Islam. They attack Islam as if Islam did the worst thing on this planet to them. Many of these guys never prayed in their whole life and they call themselves Muslims, please at least show us that you are not total ignorant of basics of Islam. Some others think that they are Muslims despite the fact they slander Prophet (Peace be upon him) and reject Islamic teachings.

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Pedophiles molest their victims, they don't marry them.

Only a 100 years ago people were getting married at early age not only that we had teenage inventors, politicians, intellectuals and admirals(Ever heard of Ferragut, Abraham Lincon and Edison?), its the world controllers who want to keep people dumb by extending the childhood. Childhood ends after the age of seven, after seven you're not a baby but how can you know that?

Society today is not becoming enlightened but dumber and dumber.

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

^I would not specify a certain age but biological adulthood is enough to explain this, which is accepted by Islam-puberty! Naturally, you become adult once you hit puberty, regardless of your age, but off course people want to define their own set of rules and that's the problem. Funny thing is that they do not even agree with each other.

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

^People like umbrella never talk about teenage single mothers suffering in the West.

Yes i have a problem even now....
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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

obvious conclusion is religion is impotent compared to culture or does religion abet nefarious cultural practices?? perhaps both

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

religion is used as a foundation to commit horrendous , horrible nasty deeds. like the clerics and teachings in islam to stay away from christians and jews.

perhaps I idolize Hirsi ALi because she is intelligent and not a rabid hate spewing demagogue nutbar mullah or cleric. And it does appear much that is wrong within islamic socieity is islam itself and how it is used to control and suppress the population. what is so hard to understand. if it was lalala land in muslim theocratic regimes then why people trying to leave and migrate to the west. and when they do migrate they refuse to assimilate and espouse their hateful , vengeful diatribe against the west while collecting welfare. Not all muslims do this but when a muslim like Hirsi Ali questions it they get death threats. And afterall , she has a credible track record of proven studies and experience to question the way islam is practiced and how it controls women's rights.

Suggest a name for Kayz..
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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

who wrote the divine laws??? Men, men, men and more men, all mortal. when were these laws written? before the age of englightenment. what was society like back then? exactly. Civil law over divine law. Divine law is very much rooted in tribal mysticism and tribal mentality. present tribal mentality versus present day civil mentality. vast difference!!!!! T he former crude, rude and ignorant.

what about a woman's right to equal inheritance. in islamic law she is short changed.

why does it have to be two women to testify against one male in islamic law?

divine law of saudi arabia ? really defecates on a woman's rights as an equal counterpart to a man.

so don't go preaching divine law is something greater or wonderful as we know man wrote it before age of enlightenement.

yes , divine law sure demeans and debases a woman's human rights. no wonder it's mostly men who like to challenge me as a muslim. because I have the basic human right not to submit just cause some cleric told me so. civil law gives me more rights , any where, any time and any place.

And human rights are not based on divine law but civil , humanistic idealogy.

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Not correct. The dictionary defines a pedophile as " An adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children".

It may or may not have been a crime during the Prophet Mohamad's time but the definition doesn't require molestation.

May be some parts of it but hopefully you are not generalizing amongst all world's population.

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Yes , there are many muslim women who obey their husbands and believe without question due to lack of education and having been religiously indoctrinated.

just a few months ago I helped a woman. her husband had her believing under islam telephones is haram. he had a cell phone. she could not call out from her own home all day while he was at work. she was not aware of certain inalienable rights her new country gave her. needless to say , she has been rescued from an oppressive marriage . so yes there are many educated muslim women but these women aren't married to troglodytes with fundy dogma. They call and leave , and work , and even socialise and intermingle amongst the sexes.

Those are not the ones I worry about, I worry about the many others, the countless faces who do suffer under the name of their religion.

Your argument is not better then saying not everyone is starving to death , i have a wealthy friend who lives in a mansion. I am an independent, questioning muslim woman who has luckly not suffered like many a somali , yemeni, saudi , etc, etc has. So instead of defending by saying gee i know a strong muslim woman start investigating the suppression and mysogyny which exists under islam and act upon fighting against the oppression.

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

please answer my question.

why do you still identify as muslim?

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Eh? Did you even read what I wrote? Apparently there are some women who lack basic reading comprehension...

[quote]

Your argument is not better then saying not everyone is starving to death , i have a wealthy friend who lives in a mansion.

[/quote]
On the contrary, your argument is that one or two people are impoverished...therefore all are impoverished. What's more, you blame this universal poverty on religion...without even successfully establishing that all are indeed impoverished in the first place.

A simple counter example is sufficient to negate this claim...whereas the one or two examples you cite (as entertaining as they are) are nowhere near sufficient to establish any sort of normative pattern...

[quote]

So instead of defending by saying gee i know a strong muslim woman start investigating the suppression and mysogyny which exists under islam and act upon fighting against the oppression.
[/quote]
On the contrary, it would perahps be better for you to come out of the intellectual pot hole and admit that because you know one or two people who are supressed and a victim of mysogony, that it in no way implicates an entire tradition. That statement, as I mentioned above, is easily refuted by specific counter examples...

Straw men aside, and feigned concerned for women within the Islamic tradition masking a general hatred for the faith...not to mention your insistence on infantalizing and denigrating Muslim women who are content within the Islamic tradition...odd behavior from a self declared champion of Muslim women, aside...I ask again: where does that leave us?

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Aisha(ra) was not a child when she married Prophet Muhammad(SAW) and neither was Ariel Durant when she got married to Will Durant at the age of 13.

Btw like many others in last century my grand-mother was married at the age of 10...does this make my grand-father a pedo?

As I said before humans in past(only a hundred years ago) were not considered as children after the age of puberty(from 9 to 13).
The norm has changed very quickly after the secular laws of marrying age and child labour etc, famous inventors like Thomas Edison was working at the age of 12 in trains....today it would be considered as a crime due to child labour law.

Unfortunately, this is the case in most parts of the world.

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

How? Did you try to explain to her husband that telephones are not haram in Islam before "rescuing" her?

Timepass
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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

This begets every begetted begetter.

An example of indoctrination folks.

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Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

To somehow even defend this pedophilic concept of marriage for todays practice is atrocious, venomous and hateful against the child and to all females of whatever age. !!!! the practice is fortunately criminal in many decent , englightened modern society and educated peoples. It is pedophillic for a man of 45 to enter into any relationship with an 8 year old girl . sheer evil , evil. Equal to rape. A practice to be condemned in today's world. A real man chooses a real woman who has the right to approve or not the attention of that particular man and not a little girl in childhood. Pedophilia nothing less and nothing more. For a grown woman of 45 to engage in sexual relationship with and 8 year old boy is also disguesting and fetid.