Music in Islam (merged)

[Seminole]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

Read up on Ollie and the massacres that were commited under his command. You don't have to be a Jesus expert to know that goes against everything he preached (Biblically speaking of course).

[NeSCio]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

if music and singing is haraam, how come all islami naats are based on bollywood tunes and songs

Let alone singing, if music (=a melody that through still undisclosed ways stimulates your brain in a positive way, for example classical music has been shown to increase short term memory and IQ) is not allowed, how come the Qur’an is often recited in a melodious way? How come it is often advised to learn Qur’an using the melody and rhythm which is used when reciting it? Clearly, melody and rhythm must have a positive effect, that they are also included in the Qur’an. So again, letting alone songs and text, what about classical music, which is nothing else than a sequence of melody and rhythm?

[Lajawab]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@Seminole

Oliver Cromwell was a puritan from the 17th century, he hardly represents **modern Christian **thought. Today music and singing are an integral of most Christian services.

As far as in Islam, my belief many rely too heavily on man-made hadith to determine what is right and wrong in God’s eyes.

The bolded part is where lies the dilemma of Christianity…There is the ‘old’ Christian thought and the ‘new’ Christian thought…

As opposed to Islam where it is a perpetual religion…

As for your ‘knowing’ the God of Islam is concerned, many people like Bush even talk to him…So, in Islam, it’s not about how you know God but what you have been told by Him to do…

[Seminole]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

What is so perpetual about not knowing the status of music in Islam after 1400 years? Perpetually confused?

Big difference in opinion in what God expects from us. I don't see him as an angry, jealous man-in-the-sky with a list of unnatural sacrifices he wants us to make just to reward us with those very vices in the hereafter. God is in my heart, not on a throne keeping a scorecard on how many times we prayed today or what direction we faced when we did it.

[5ho_ib]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

dear mr. PakistaniAbroad

quite an intilectual appraoch when u say 'that's what I said.. do what your scholars tell you cuz your madhab is Sunni/Barelvi/Hanfi etc etc whatever.. In Islam though, Music isn't haraam by any stretch of the imagination.. it's based on mathematics which plays an integral part in the design of the universe we live in... and since Allah is the Lord of the Universe, He it is who has created music too.'

*I must say that typical sick overseas Pakistani thoughts there. Such people think that whatever they are saying is very authentic and everyone shud say yes to it, but dear this is not the case. *
*Can u plz elaborate which Islam u r talking about? And I wish to know if you are not talking about qadiyaneyat and not about Islam. *

Waisay ap ki Itila kay liyay arz hai kay 'sharab' bhi dunya main paee jati hai, wo ap kay islam main halal hai ya makrooh ?

[malhot]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

If what i've read above is correct-then urdu 'Gazals'would all be haram!!

They explicitly talk of love & is sung by females throughout the centuries.

This seem meaningless, gazals are a part of the urdu/Hindustani culture???

[Lajawab]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@Seminole

What is so perpetual about not knowing the status of music in Islam after 1400 years? Perpetually confused?

Big difference in opinion in what God expects from us. I don’t see him as an angry, jealous man-in-the-sky with a list of unnatural sacrifices he wants us to make just to reward us with those very vices in the hereafter. God is in my heart, not on a throne keeping a scorecard on how many times we prayed today or what direction we faced when we did it.

No, perpetual meaning an ocean of knowledge in which one dives into for knowledge…On GS, everyone comes up with their own pearls of wisdom…And since no one on GS is a scholar, we talk about it…

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@Seminole

Read up on Ollie and the massacres that were commited under his command. You don’t have to be a Jesus expert to know that goes against everything he preached (Biblically speaking of course).

Actually he did not go against the word of Bible

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@picoico

Important to point out too, that devotional music played a critical role in the spread of Islam on the Indian subcont.

Yes we were all(including me) forgetting this aspect,thanks for bringing it up

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@malhot

If what i’ve read above is correct-then urdu 'Gazals’would all be haram!!

They explicitly talk of love & is sung by females throughout the centuries.

This seem meaningless, gazals are a part of the urdu/Hindustani culture???

Urdu hindustani culture is not puritan Islam if muslim rulers adopted the ways of Pagans that dosent make them a part of Islam.The Poetry of sufis and many urdu poets who wrote religious poetry is another matter altogather.

[Seminole]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@Lajawab

No, perpetual meaning an ocean of knowledge in which one dives into for knowledge…On GS, everyone comes up with their own pearls of wisdom…And since no one on GS is a scholar, we talk about it…

That ocean is mighty deep if one has to know more about Islam than yourself (someone who exhorts its tenants so loudly to everyone else) just to know if music is allowed. Are you saying that one has to have years of experience as a scholar to know the truth to this answer? What about scholars with opposing opinions? That’s not fail-safe truth. Even if it is the opinion of the majority, what if that is just the more prevailing, conservative opinion, relying on tradition and cultural interpretation?

[FrozenFire]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

well.... songs are basically poetry... so if poetry is permissible in Islam than how about have music in the very same poetry and make it a song ...so that way u have entertainment and in the same time understanding of the poetry..

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@FrozenFire

well… songs are basically poetry… so if poetry is permissible in Islam..

depends on what kind of poetry it is

[Lajawab]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

Seminole,

The basic tenets that are shared by each and every sect of Islam are universally the same, unchanged and unchanging...The tenets that makes you a Muslim...There is no argument whatsoever about them between any sect...There cannot be...They are written plainly and without a hint of ambiguity...

But the laws which have been defined by Quran and Sunnah (Shariah) is based on proofs and evidences (Dalail)...So, since every sect has their Dalail, hence they follow those Dalail and we talk about them...There is no argumentation...In this case we say, you to your way, me to mine...

I'll give you my example...I belonged to the Hanafi sect of which the majority scholars came from the city of Bareli, hence, I was a Barelvi...It is the same branch from which Sufism comes from alongwith (which I later found out) some very deviant other practices which I myself practiced...

After coming to America and gaining interest in my own faith, I started reading about Islam and about Dalails...Since you know in Islam we follow the strongest Dalails, I shifted my views from the Hanafi school of thought to the Shaafiee school of thought...It is the same sect from which Wahabbism comes, a movement which was started by the great scholar Abdul Wahab...(Now, upon reading the word Wahabbism, keep in mind Pavlov's experiment...You are trained to know what you should think when you hear the word Wahabi...)

Why? Because of Dalails...Now, I know from proofs and evidences that the Shafiee school of thought has more valid and stronger Dalails...Not that it in any way nullifies the Dalails of the Hanafi sect...It's just that Shafiee school of thought, in my view, is more grounded in beliefs...It doesn't allow for innovations (Bida'a)...

Here, on guy just posted his views of what he thought about music from his own Dalails...There is nothing wrong with that...And those that do not agree to his views based on those Dalails are countering that with their own Dalails...Nothing wrong with that either...

That is why Islam is such an engrossing religion...There has been no gathering, meeting, get-together of Muslims where I have been to and Islam doesn't come up...

Can any religion boast of such dynamism and interest?

Hope that explains a droplet from an ocean of knowledge...

[Crescent]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@Lajawab

Seminole,

The basic tenets that are shared by each and every sect of Islam are universally the same, unchanged and unchanging…The tenets that makes you a Muslim…There is no argument whatsoever about them between any sect…There cannot be…They are written plainly and without a hint of ambiguity…

But the laws which have been defined by Quran and Sunnah (Shariah) is based on proofs and evidences (Dalail)…So, since every sect has their Dalail, hence they follow those Dalail and we talk about them…There is no argumentation…In this case we say, you to your way, me to mine…

I’ll give you my example…I belonged to the Hanafi sect of which the majority scholars came from the city of Bareli, hence, I was a Barelvi…It is the same branch from which Sufism comes from alongwith (which I later found out) some very deviant other practices which I myself practiced…

After coming to America and gaining interest in my own faith, I started reading about Islam and about Dalails…Since you know in Islam we follow the strongest Dalails, I shifted my views from the Hanafi school of thought to the Shaafiee school of thought…It is the same sect from which Wahabbism comes, a movement which was started by the great scholar Abdul Wahab…(Now, upon reading the word Wahabbism, keep in mind Pavlov’s experiment…You are trained to know what you should think when you hear the word Wahabi…)

Why? Because of Dalails…Now, I know from proofs and evidences that the Shafiee school of thought has more valid and stronger Dalails…Not that it in any way nullifies the Dalails of the Hanafi sect…It’s just that Shafiee school of thought, in my view, is more grounded in beliefs…It doesn’t allow for innovations (Bida’a)…

Here, on guy just posted his views of what he thought about music from his own Dalails…There is nothing wrong with that…And those that do not agree to his views based on those Dalails are countering that with their own Dalails…Nothing wrong with that either…

That is why Islam is such an engrossing religion…There has been no gathering, meeting, get-together of Muslims where I have been to and Islam doesn’t come up…

Can any religion boast of such dynamism and interest?

Hope that explains a droplet from an ocean of knowledge…

Very good Answer, cept Hanafism doesn’t allow bid’aa either, no one does.

[picoico]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@Seminole

That ocean is mighty deep if one has to know more about Islam than yourself (someone who exhorts its tenants so loudly to everyone else) just to know if music is allowed.

Superficial take on the issue. The point is, WE are concerned about it…and simply don’t write it off as “obvious” just because our view of the Prophet (or any Prophet for that matter) is that of a laid back buddy we hang out with…

Perhaps the devil is in the details, but better the devil you know…

[PakistaniAbroad]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@5ho@ib

dear mr. PakistaniAbroad

**I must say that typical sick overseas Pakistani thoughts there.

oh there’s a category now?

Such people think that whatever they are saying is very authentic and everyone shud say yes to it,

no.. u don’t necessarily have to agree..

****Can u plz elaborate which Islam u r talking about? And I wish to know if you are not talking about qadiyaneyat and not about Islam.

qadiyaneyat would be another madhab wouldn’t it.. i’m only concerned with Islam.
**
**

Waisay ap ki Itila kay liyay arz hai kay ‘sharab’ bhi dunya main paee jati hai, wo ap kay islam main halal hai ya makrooh ?**

Of coure it exists and Allah tells us it has benefits as well as detriments. However since the ill effects outweigh the benefits, Muslims are advised to stay away from it in order for them to be successful. Pretty simple wouldn’t you think?

Now while u’re in that thinking mode, something else should become clear to you.. Allah never said anything similar about Music.. He could have, but He didn’t. When He wants to declare something halaal or Haraam.. He does it in clear words.. The entire Qur’an was at His disposal to do it.. but you and your scholars will go twist words and replace Allah’s words with your own just to be able to create new halaals and haraams… typical sick sectarian mentality here..

[stupid_idiot]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

Is Music & Singing haram in Islam?

…and if the music is not violent or being listened to at a loud volume (to show off).

What is wrong with ‘showing off and loud volume’. As I understand you base you opinions on quran and hadith. Both of them do not say anything about not listening to em in the loud voice or for showing off. Why then you are specifically stressing on the point.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

I base my conclusion from these facts (and a few others):

provide facts for the above answers please.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

Among the entertainments which may comfort the soul, please the heart, and refresh the ear is singing.

Brother it is a mere matter of perception what comforts your soul, pleases your heart and refreshes your ear may infuriate me, discomforts my heart and doesnt refresh my ears. Personal likings and disliking cant not merely turn things into haram or halal. See I may not like chicken at all and therefore may not consume it but that doesnt make it haram.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

Islam permits singing under the condition that it not be in any way obscene or harmful to Islamic morals. There is no harm in its being accompanied by music which is not exciting.

again brother, which is exciting and which is not exciting is just a personal way of thinking. I may hate rock, you may find it exciting. Would that make it halal for me and haram for you?

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

In order to create an atmosphere of joy and happiness, singing is recommended on festive occasions such as the days of 'Eid, weddings and wedding feasts, births, 'aqiqat (the celebration of the birth of a baby by the slaughter of sheep), and on the return of a traveler.

brother recomendation in my viewpoint is s’thing which Allah (swt) or Muhammad (s) has emphasized to do. I dont think that has been that case. The ocasions you are reffering to did had some singing and it was not stoped, that is all. Had it been recomended then on the weddings where there was no sining, Muhammad (s) would have ‘recommended’ the companions to practice it. Did he?

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

‘Aishah narrated that when a woman was married to an Ansari man, the Prophet(peace be on him) said, " ‘Aishah, did they have any entertainment? The Ansarare fond of entertainment.’’ (Reported by al-Bukhari.)

With all due respect brother, I’ve seen peopel arranging call girls for weddings. I’ve seen ‘rented’ girls dancing on the weddings and people touching various parts of thier bodies. I’ve seen people arranging alcholic drinks on the wedding they arraing. They claim to be muslims and they say they have ‘entertainment’ by the things I’ve mentioned above. Come to Pakistan, I’ll show how people ‘entertain’ themselves on wedding gatherings. Can we say all that would not be haram becuase they are having ‘entertainment’?

What you have quoted doesnt say anywhere mother Aishah used to have entertainment by listenting to music. Its how you want to percieve the tradition that is all.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

Ibn 'Abbas said, " 'Aishah gave a girl relative of hers in marriage to a man of theAnsar. The Prophet (peace be on him) came and asked, ‘Did you send a singer along with her?’ ‘No,’ said 'Aishah. The Messenger of Allah (peace be on him) then said, The Ansar are a people who love poetry. You should have sent along someone who would sing, ‘Here we come, to you we come, greet us as we greet you.’ " (Reported by Ibn Majah.)

Brother kindly mentione the hadith number with the hadith. I’ll look into it only then I’ll be able to comment on it. At the moment I couldnt find it in the source (ibn majah) you ahve mentioned.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

'Aishah narrated that during the days of Mina, on the day of 'Eid al-Adha, twogirls were with her, singing and playing on a hand drum. The Prophet (peacebe on him) was present, listening to them with his head under a shawl. Abu Bakr then entered and scolded the girls. The Prophet (peace be on him), uncovering his face, told him, “Let them be, Abu Bakr. These are the days of 'Eid.” (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)

brother, the instrument you have reffered to (hand drum) used to be open from one side is called ‘thuf’. Sholars unanimously agree that playing the ‘thuf’ is permisable along with specific poetry (limits are defined). So if the music you are listening to is only based on ‘thuf’ that is it is differnent matter.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

In his book, Ihya ulum al-deen, (In the quarter on “Habits”, in the book Listening to Singing.), Imam al-Ghazzali mentions the ahadith about the singing girls, the Abyssinians playing with spears in the Prophet’s Mosque, the Prophet’s encouraging them by saying, “Carry on, O Bani Arfidah,” his asking his wife, 'Aishah, “Would you like to watch?” and standing there with her until she herself became tired and went away, and 'Aishah’s playing with dolls with her friends.

Which book are you quoting? share the name with us.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

All these ahadith are reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim in the two Sahihs, and they clearly prove that singing and playing are not haram.

Brother, if you are talking about the hadiths you have mentioned above, then look at them yourself and you’d realise not ‘all the hadith’ are mentioned in Muslim and Bukhari. If you are quoting it from a website and/or book. Please share the name so I cant have a look and understand a few things. You see at times wholistic approach to a problems helps in sloving.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

Fromthem we may deduce the following:

First: The permissibility of playing; the Abyssinians were in the habit of dancing and playing.

Second: Doing this in the mosque.

Third: The Prophet’s saying, ‘Carry on, O Bani Arfidah,’ was a command and a request that they should play; then how can their play be considered haram?

We are not able to deduce anything since it jsut says “Imam al-Ghazzali mentions the ahadith about the singing girls” but which hadith is that, we need to see that before we deduce s’thing.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

Fourth: The Prophet (peace be on him) prevented Abu Bakr and 'Umar from interrupting and scolding the players and singers. He told Abu Bakr that 'Eid was a joyous occasion and that singing was a means of enjoyment.

It also shows that instrument allowed to play is ‘thuf’ the poetry is specified (detials are long so i’ll not get into that at the moment) three that such singing is allowed on the Islamic occasions only.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

Fifth: On both occasions he stayed for a long time with 'Aishah, letting her watch the show of the Abyssinians and listening with her to the singing of the girls. This proves that it is far better to be good-humored in pleasing women and children with games than to express such disapproval of such amusements out of a sense of harsh piety and asceticism.

I can sense that you’ve give the explaination of another hadith but not the one which you have quoted above. Look at the words you ahve chosen “women and children with games” Music doesnt qualify for the ‘games’ brother does it.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

Sixth: The Prophet (peace be on him) himself encouraged 'Aishah by asking her, “Would you like to watch?” (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)

Watch what?

Here is the hadith brother:

Narrated Aisha: Bukhari: Volume:2 Book :15 Number :70
Allah’s Apostle (p.b.u.h) came to my house while two girls were singing beside me the songs of Buath (a story about the war between the two tribes of the Ansar, the Khazraj and the Aus, before Islam). The Prophet (p.b.u.h) lay down and turned his face to the other side. Then Abu Bakr came and spoke to me harshly saying, “Musical instruments of Satan near the Prophet (p.b.u.h) ?” Allah’s Apostle (p.b.u.h) turned his face towards him and said, “Leave them.” When Abu Bakr became inattentive, I signalled to those girls to go out and they left. It was the day of 'Id, and the Black people were playing with shields and spears; so either I requested the Prophet (p.b.u.h) or he asked me whether I would like to see the display. I replied in the affirmative. Then the Prophet (p.b.u.h) made me stand behind him and my cheek was touching his cheek and he was saying, “Carry on! O Bani Arfida,” till I got tired. The Prophet (p.b.u.h) asked me, “Are you satisfied (Is that sufficient for you)?” I replied in the affirmative and he told me to leave.

You see brother, mother aisha was watching the people playing with shields and spears. Secondly Muhammad (s) asked them to “carry on!..” with thier play with sheilds and spears. Quoting peices may not give the complete picture. Make sure what you are reading is actually correct.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

Seventh: The permissibility of singing and playing on the drum…and what follows, to the end of al-Ghazzali’s discussion on singing.

I doubt this was the case.

[stupid_idiot]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

It is reported that many Companions of the Prophet (may Allah be pleased with them) as well as second generation Muslim scholars used to listen to singing and did not see anything wrong with it.

Mentioned where?

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

As for the ahadith which have been reported against singing, they are all weak and have been shown by researchers to be unsound.

Show us the hadith which were ‘weak’ and let us know why they are weak. Mere claims dont mean anything.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

The jurist Abu Bakr al-'Arabi says, “No sound hadith is available concerning the prohibition of singing,” while Ibn Hazm says, "All that is reported on this subject is false and fabricated "

I can quote many jurist who say otherwise. Will you believe them? If not why do you believe him?

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

However, since singing is in many cases associated with drinking parties and night clubs, many scholars have declared it to be haram or at least makruh.

I’ll give you my reasons, non of them have anything to do with parties, dance clubs, alchol or anything.

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

They state that singing constitutes that kind of idle talk which is mentioned in the ayah, And among the people is the one who buys idle talk (at the expense of his soul) in order to lead (people) astray from the path of Allah without knowledge, holding it in mockery; for such there will be a humiliating punishment. (31:6)

There are other reaons as well. The the reason to interpret this aya the way the do is becuase it has been interpreted by ibe-abbas who was companion of Muhammad (s).

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

Ibn Hazm also refutes the argument of those who say that since singing is not of “the truth” it must be of “error,” referring to the verse, “And what is beyond the truth except error?” (10:32). He comments, The Messenger of Allah (peace be on him) said, 'Deeds will be judged according to intentions, and everyone will get what he intended. (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim. Accordingly, the one who listens to singing with the intention of using it in support of a sin is a sinner, and this holds true of anything other than singing (as well), while one who listens to singing with the intention of refreshing his soul in order to gain strength to do his duty toward Allah Ta’ala and to dogood deeds, is a good and obedient servant of Allah, and his action is of the truth. And he who listens to singing intending neither obedience nor disobedience is doing something neutral and harmless, whicis similar to going to the park and walking around, standing by a window and looking at the sky, wearing blue or green cloths, and so on.

brother, again it is mere matter of perception. Suppose (Allah forbid) I claim to refresh my mind with ill legal sex and suppose I say that I can increase my productivity which’d be benificial for the Muslism after I have ill legal sex. Would I be allowed to do it? I dont intend anything wrong do I?

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

However, there are some limitations to be observed in the matter of singing:

1. The subject matter of songs should not be against the teachings of Islam. For example, if the song is in praise of wine, and it invites people to drink, singing or listening to it is haram.
2. Although the subject matter itself may not be against the Islamic teachings, the manner of singing may render it haram; this would be the case, for example, if the singing were accompanied by suggestive sexual movement.
3. Islam fights against excess and extravagance in anything, even in worship; how, then, can it tolerate excessive involvement with entertainment? Too much time should not be wasted in such activities; after all, what is time but life itself? One cannot dispute the fact that spending time in permissible activities consumes time which ought to be resaved for carrying out religious obligations and doing good deeds. It is aptly said, “There is no excess except at the expense of a neglected duty.”
4. Each individual is the best judge of himself. If a certain type of singing arouses one’s passions, leads him towards sin, excites the animal instincts, and dulls spirituality, he must avoid it, thus closing the door to temptations.
5. There is unanimous agreement that if singing is done in conjunction with haram activities—for example, at a drinking party, or if it is mixed with obscenity and sin—it is haram. The Prophet (peace be on him) warned of a severe punishment for people who sing or listen to singing in such a situation when he said, Some people of my ummah will drink wine, calling it by another name, while they listen to singers accompanied by musical instruments. Allah will cause the earth to swallow them and will turn some of them into monkeys and swine. (Reported by Ibn Majah.) This does not mean that they will be physically transformed into the bodies and outward form of monkeys and swine but rather in heart and soul, carrying the heart of a monkey and the soul of a ###### in their human bodies.

Brother, for Muslims the ‘limitations’ are set by Allah (swt) and Muhammad (saw). If your scholars say that these are the limitations we must follow then they must reffer this in the Quran or the Sunnah.

NOTE: I’ve so far just neggated what you have presented as the “proof”. If you are interested I can also tell why Music is Haram.
I’m short of time as well there are many other members whos topics need to be replied. But I chose to reply this one as you were the starter

[stupid_idiot]

Re: Is Music Haraam?

@Seminole

I’m not Muslim. But if I were I would put my faith and belief in the words of Allah (Quran), not a collection of unsubstantiated writings written by man that may or may be Allah’s wishes. If music was banned as per Quran then I would believe it.

Since you are not muslim you are unaware of the importance of understand the hadith & sunnah (sayings and doing of Muhammad (s)). If you are interested I can tell why we follow that. And kindly do not give judgemental remarks about religions other than what you follow, specially when you dont have the proper knowledge.
regards