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*Originally posted by Paaga| |nsaan: *
Saif-ul-Islam:
1- Sufis are not peers. They are the people who we owe our religion to. Bullay Shah, Waris Shah, Sultan Bahu, Ali Hajveri, Bahauddin Zikriya, were not Peers. It was them who spread the message of Islam in the subcontinent.
2- If you think most muslims of the subcontinent are naam ke musalman and should've remained hindus, that should include you too. You're from back here as well.
3- It makes a lot of difference to be naam ke musalman, and it is quite enough for you to be considered one by Allah, who says in the Koran: "...say not to anyone who offers you a salutation (i.e. Salaam): "Thou art none of a believer!" (Koran, 4:94)
4- The notion that you are a pious muslim and the others should've better been hindus has been doscouraged in the above verse, and this state of mind is called Takabbur. It is one of the major sins that you do on your nafs. But then again, its the Sufis who say that, so you may not believe in it.
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How can you guarantee that whatever the Sufis or anybody said was true???
The only real source of guidance is the Quran and Sunnah. If you search for things outdside it, then you will surely go estray!
How can you guarantee that whatever the Sufis or anybody said was true???
The only real source of guidance is the Quran and Sunnah. If you search for things outdside it, then you will surely go estray!
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I did not say the Sufis or anybody else is true. I said we all believe in Islam because of the Sufis, and therefore we respect their opinion more than that of the Molvis.
Sufis take their guidance from the Koran and the Sunnah too, and know more about it then any Molvi of today. That is why they converted half of India to Islam, while the Molvis are taking half of Pakistan out of Islam! Its very obvious who is ''estray''.
Islam and ur faith is between just you and your Allah... only He is the judge of what is right and wrong...
people spend too much time worrying bout the nitty gritty things... if listening to music takes you away from your faith and ur Iman becomes weaker.. than stop listening... if it makes no difference... and if you feel your connection with Allah Mian is still as strong (same) As before... than whats that harm?
You guys should listen to Bhajans...Buddhist chants or Sikh Kirtans...combine religion and music..what a beautiful concept. Give i a try...I double dog dare ya!
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*Originally posted by Matsui: *
You guys should listen to Bhajans...Buddhist chants or Sikh Kirtans...combine religion and music..what a beautiful concept. Give i a try...I double dog dare ya!
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The concept of reading the Koran in Qirat, a combination of rhythm and melody, can be found in the Hadith. The prophet has been reported to request his companions to recite the Koran to him. No religion can deny the awesome effect of melody on human soul. The Scholars who oppose music only oppose the use of musical intruments. The Sufis who seek to prove permissibility of music and musical instruments use the very logic of the recitation of the Koran and the effect of melody on the human soul.
My point was simply this- if you want a scholarly opinion, dont scrape the surface. Look for the complete evidence instead of taking one fatwa which is in your favor.
Traditional scholar vs sufi is not something i’m interested in. So .
And the music being talked about (i assumed) was the music we have today, sufi music is not the same, hence that is a tangent.
Pagal, get off it. I never challenged your viewpoint. If you want to believe one of your drunken relevation receiving sufis then do so, i dont care. Mad scientist offered an analysis of the literature on this issue and i responded to him. You dont have to hijack and respond to every other reply. Clearly I believe that relevation was stopped with the Prophet, and hence I am trying to analayze the literature present until then. You believe the sufis can introduce anything into religion and thats your pick.
Koran is the only revelation in Islam, and unfortunately for you it does not disallow music. The molvis are trying to add to the revelation. Everything that the molvis can’t get paid for is lately becoming Haraam.
I’ll reply to every post I feel like. Lets see if there’s anything you can do about it.
it's fun seeing a bunch of HYPOCRITES babbling about this being haraam and that being Haraam while all the proof they can muster are unreliable reports and mullah interpretations.
Please enlighten us as to how you manage to live your lives in these times 'sheltered' from music?? If Music is ABSOLUTELY NO PART of your lives.. maybe then we can start listening to your twisted beliefs.. till then we'll read the Qur'an and finding in it NO prohibition against Music.. we'll Rock On.
Ahh.. now it becomes obvious why PA is so adamant on "following the Quran in itself" with his own funny little interpretations. Yeh.. its because this way he can do the stuff he likes, and before going to bed convince himself that there aint much wrong with wht he's doing. You found a clause yet which will allow you to sleep around and drink alcohol?? oh whts that?? still working on it??
by the by, it is NO BIGGIE living your life without music.
ahhh reminds me of a thread we had just a few months back :)
maybe someone can dig it up.
I am alaways amazed at how we can debate the minutia to death while not even following the basic islamic code of conduct :D
Oh Man! this is very bold. You or not even the most pious Aalim on the face of earth has right to say like this for even the worst Muslim in the world. Brother my advise to you s to make tauba for such statement and say Alhamdollillah, who has given you such a knowledge and taufeeq to practice Prophet :saw:'s sunnah.
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Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam:
Sadly most Muslims back home in Pakistan and India are nothing but peer worshippers and grave worshippers, I don't think it would've made much difference if they had stayed hindu...
Naam ka Musalman honay se kuch fark nahi parta.
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In Sub-Continent there are many pious people also! There may be many problems with the beliefs but they are good people. We ourselves are not perfect, and by the Grace of Allah things are changing very fast.
Dear brother, Allah does not like even little bit of pride. Do reconsider your statement.
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