Re: Music and Islam
Let's try some common sense here for a change. Four wives to a man is not a distraction but music is? What kind of nonsense is this.
As I've been canvassing, unless such insane rules are purged islam will continue to be viewed with disdain by others and will continue to have to be defended non-transparently by those who think it's right.
Re: Music and Islam
Tangential argument with no bearing to my post... If you believe this hadith wholeheartedly then that is your problem (and deed) brother. And yes I am married.
Peace hypnotix-2000
My answer was not tangential to you post please read it again and see. If you have posted a hadith from the Sahih collection of Imam Bukhari and I have heard this one before, but I'm not sure if it is in the Sahih Bukhari collection or just another Bukhari collection. I didn't say that I have wholeheartedly accepted it, I said that I can, because to me as I explained it provided a context that is different to how you have obviously understood it. You see the hadith in conflict with the Qur'an, but to me the hadith annoates an explanation to what the word 'approach' means in actual terms. For every conflict there is reconciliation but we need to be open to both.
After research and deliberation and it proves to be a correct and authentic hadith then again I reiterate I will have no problem in accepting that hadith.
Re: Music and Islam
Let's try some common sense here for a change. Four wives to a man is not a distraction but music is? What kind of nonsense is this.
As I've been canvassing, unless such insane rules are purged islam will continue to be viewed with disdain by others and will continue to have to be defended non-transparently by those who think it's right.
Peace Tariq Akhtar
Who said four wives is not a distraction ... I most definitely think for me four wives would be a distraction and obviously for you they would be too. Islam only prescribes a limit to the distractions we are allowed to have. The nonesense is only coming from your direction.
Islam will only be considered a pure religion if we maintain it in it's purity those who view it with disdain may continue to do so, it is their choice!
Re: Music and Islam
^I don't think it's getting redundant and boring. If people say you can get complete guidance by reading hadith, I'm just looking for that guidance.
Or are you implying that based on Hadith one cannot get answers to my questions and hence label them as redundant and boring :o
The answers are definetly there, but are you ready to accept them?
Re: Music and Islam
Let's try some common sense here for a change. Four wives to a man is not a distraction but music is? What kind of nonsense is this.
As I've been canvassing, unless such insane rules are purged islam will continue to be viewed with disdain by others and will continue to have to be defended non-transparently by those who think it's right.
So you're suggesting we mend and change Islam, so that Islam would not be viewed by disdain by others?
But then by changing and mending it, it wouldn't be Islam. It we be some next mickey mouse religion engineered by nutcases like you. Whats next?...a Continous Improvement round trip for Islam?
Re: Music and Islam
Peace NeScio
It was an assumed position that I hold. Which is that people tend to equate harmony, and vocal artistry of recitation to that of singing. Though I do not assume that people here think that music takes preference over Qur'an, in practice those people who indulge in music will find themselves doing just that even when they pay lip service to the opposite.
The reason for greater emphasis on music is because it has the capacity like the recitation of Qur'an to elevate emotion and like anything that accesses emotions it needs to curbed so it doesn't take over. People who go into music often find themselves like other intoxicating things addicted to it and sidetracked from other things in life. Music, alcohol and such things share in some attributes. However, recitation and music share other attributes.
Looking for things that are encouraged or discouraged is quite simple. If the act you are doing be it for work or play has within it elements that are part of pagan or non-Islamic religious activity such as for example the Raki festival. This is most definitely discouraged and forbidden, but things like being a window cleaner if it is being done with the intention to earn money and have trust in the money for sustaining ones life then that should be discouraged, but if the same window cleaner job is being done out of virtue because Islam requires us to work and have trust in Allah (SWT) for sustaining us, then upon that intention it should most definitely be encouraged. The same goes for all the other things you mention. Here is the simple recipe:
1) Look at the act itself and how it could be perceived as a noble or ignoble thing 2) Look at the side-effects of the act are they tending towards good or bad 3) Look at the intention behind the act that is intended: Is it for Allah (SWT) or a selfish reason? 4) Whilst undertaking the act does it involve elements that originate from non-Islamic religious activity ...
Classifcation of deeds: Fard = Obligation Mustahab = Highly desirable Muba = neutral Makruh = Highly detestable Haram = Forbidden
Many acts in themselves can be muba but when the action is performed with different intentions then those very acts can become either mustahab or makruh, and so on.
So far music has been seen and looked at in isolation that is why it is difficult to classify whether it is allowed or not. However it needs to be put into contexts of environment, and message being delivered and so on. This brought me to comparing it with Qur'an recitation because they both share:
1) The aural sense as the part used for perceiving the activity 2) The ability to affect emotion 3) The message being portrayed (if the music is being used to portray Islamic information) 4) It involves the voice to transmit it
Where music is done for the reason of delivering Islamic information effectively by the listening sense, then the Qur'an for that reason should be given preference.
In the Qur'an we are told that we will be judged on the intention behind our actions. In other words our actions alone will not be judged nor a thought if it has not become an action.
thanks for your extensive post. So basically, we can lift this whole argument and say that for every act you do, it's the intention that counts. Agreed. The reason special emphasis is put on music, is because recitation of Qur'an can be mixed up as being singing? And cuz it also involves auditory stimuli? Well, I agree with this on you, but not to the extent that special emphasis should be put on music. Just like any other things, you have to keep your intentions in check while listening to music.
Although, slight disagreement about the nuances, I think I can safely say that both you and I agree that music is not forbidden in Islam, rather when listening to it, one should keep their intentions in check (basically, like with all other things in life)?
if so, please also translate have Sharaabi read this.
Re: Music and Islam
The answers are definetly there, but are you ready to accept them?
I'm a simple soul, so please help me. Am I allowed to listen (not for any religious purposes, only for a 5 min break just to escape from daily businesses, having done islamic things already like recitation of Qur'an, namaz, zikr etc) to Pavarotti, or not?
Re: Music and Islam
Sign of a perfect loser who would clutch on anything let it be a typo or anything....you dont have to show me your mental caliber....i already know it... tsk tsk ...Retard.
You're just being rude. Carry on...
Re: Music and Islam
You're just being rude. Carry on...
Mohterma Taali do haathon se bajti hai.
**
Re: Music and Islam
So you're suggesting we mend and change Islam, so that Islam would not be viewed by disdain by others?
But then by changing and mending it, it wouldn't be Islam. It we be some next mickey mouse religion engineered by nutcases like you. Whats next?...a Continous Improvement round trip for Islam?
Nutcases? Well done. This is what I call opaque defense. you can't reason you stand, so resort to blanket statements that you expect others to just accept.
Getting past that, now why would you be against improving islam? Do you want it to die off? Because anything that doesn't adopt changes, adapt in time will be degerate and die! Liike the buggywhip, the typewriter, the ideological cults of the past (some of which actually became religions for brief times)......the warnings are plenty.
Re: Music and Islam
^ The premise of your argument is faulty and hence your argument does not stand any ground.
This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion;
Surah Maidah, Verse 3
The above is proof that Islam is perfect, and anything that is perfect doesn't need to be improved, especially by those who are born imperfect.
Re: Music and Islam
This is just what I was afraid of. I am the person who started this thread and asked a simple question. Perhaps each one of you overlooked that and started taking this matter to the heart. Thanks guys!
Re: Music and Islam
^ The premise of your argument is faulty and hence your argument does not stand any ground.
This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; Surah Maidah, Verse 3
The above is proof that Islam is perfect, and anything that is perfect doesn't need to be improved, especially by those who are born imperfect.
You obviously wouldn't recognize the premise if it bites you! This is exactly why islam is in such destruction today. Everytime something wrong is pointed out, your standard reply is either 'that is not islam' or 'quran said so'.
Why wouldn't muslims want to use their god given brain and try to make it fit for times!
Re: Music and Islam
Mohterma Taali do haathon se bajti hai.
I never called you a retard, Mauhtarim.
Re: Music and Islam
Music is permissible in Islam. Murder is not, and renders one as a disbeliever.
Very stupid topic.
Re: Music and Islam
thanks for your extensive post. So basically, we can lift this whole argument and say that for every act you do, it's the intention that counts. Agreed. The reason special emphasis is put on music, is because recitation of Qur'an can be mixed up as being singing? And cuz it also involves auditory stimuli? Well, I agree with this on you, but not to the extent that special emphasis should be put on music. Just like any other things, you have to keep your intentions in check while listening to music.
Although, slight disagreement about the nuances, I think I can safely say that both you and I agree that music is not forbidden in Islam, rather when listening to it, one should keep their intentions in check (basically, like with all other things in life)?
if so, please also translate have Sharaabi read this.
Peace NeSCio
With this in mind I agree with you, but there is a caution with music which again has consensus.
The caution is that music hardens the heart.
We must also be aware that to be Muslim we must believe that doing the fard is obligatory and avoiding the haraam is obligatory. If we fail then we are sinful. At the same time if we want to be mo'min we must not only believe that those things are necessary but make our actions conform to our beliefs. Yet, again if we want to be Muh'sin or excellent in our deen then we will endeavour to avoid the mukruh and enjoin the mustahab. And we must also be aware that if we have a choice between doing something of neutral status as opposed to something of desirable status then the Shaitan will take pleasure in making us do muba. To be of the Muttaqun we will strive to avoid even the muba acts.
Music as being a shunned thing in Islam in conjunction with it's property to harden the heart we need to realise that in order to become improving Muslims then abstaining from music will be one of the immediate requirements.
But yes ... in all this we cannot call it out right a haram thing, but this comes down to a matter of opinion.
Re: Music and Islam
^ The premise of your argument is faulty and hence your argument does not stand any ground.
This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; Surah Maidah, Verse 3
The above is proof that Islam is perfect, and anything that is perfect doesn't need to be improved, especially by those who are born imperfect.
Actually Islam has already been changed drastically since that verse was written. Early Muslims are the ones who completed Islam by adding hadith to the way Islam is practiced. It was not completed with the Quran. Now whether God *intended *for it to be or not is another issue. The above verse indicated he did.
But anyone who says that Islam cannot continue to improve the way it is practiced because it was completed by God are the ones with the faulty arguement. It HAS been changed.
Re: Music and Islam
You obviously wouldn't recognize the premise if it bites you! This is exactly why islam is in such destruction today. Everytime something wrong is pointed out, your standard reply is either 'that is not islam' or 'quran said so'.
Why wouldn't muslims want to use their god given brain and try to make it fit for times!
Here are some Ayaahs from Surah Bakarah for people like you!
These are they who buy error for the right direction, so
their bargain shall bring no gain, nor are they the followers of
the right direction.
*Their parable is like the parable of one who kindled a fire
but when it had illumined all around him, Allah took away their
light, and left them in utter darkness-- they do not see.
*
*Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back.
*
Re: Music and Islam
I never called you a retard, Mauhtarim.
You get mean...just cuz people dont hold the same close minded opinion like yours
I retaliate...
You whine...
I give you an explanation....which ofcourse you cant comprihend......
Your more than welcome to play "chase your own tail game" i'm outta here....
Re: Music and Islam
Actually Islam has already been changed drastically since that verse was written. Early Muslims are the ones who completed Islam by adding hadith to the way Islam is practiced. It was not completed with the Quran. Now whether God *intended *for it to be or not is another issue. The above verse indicated he did.
But anyone who says that Islam cannot continue to improve the way it is practiced because it was completed by God are the ones with the faulty arguement. It HAS been changed.
Peace Seminole
Your mistaken choice of words demonstrates your mistaken understanding of Islam. First of all I think you mean "... since that verse was uttered" not "written", of course you know many verses were only written at a time later than that what was revealed.
The early Muslims also were never part of completing Islam in that they were never part of bringing anything new into the practices of the basic religious system. All things that were new were grounded and based on things that were already in place. It was done with the view of what Muhammad (SAW) has sanctioned and interpolated from that.
Islam had been brought in it's entirety by the time that verse was revealed. Hence the choice of words "completed my favour upon you" and "perfected your religion". It means that whatever we need to do in future and new situations we can extract from previous decisions that have been made. The religion therefore has not been changed, it has only changed hands. First we had a prophet of God (SAW) then we had his followers (RA). The way they would lead would be different to the way the prophet (SAW) led, because he was assumed under a different status and the people would relate to him in a different way than to their own peers. This matter had also been settled within the life of Muhammad (SAW) where he ensured groups of people appointed leadership amongst themselves and operated in accordance with the regulations of Islam as entities, this method was merely applied on a grand scale when the Khilafah became in order soon after the death of Muhammad (SAW).