Mushy's non-stop nonsense

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Pervez Musharraf, the militaray dictator and self-anointed president of Pakistan and a thinker, philosopher, strategist, politician, interviewee and above all a dolt out and out is ready to give up Pakistan’s claim on Kashmir.

India is not ready to accept any other solution but to change the LOC into the international border, can somebody here tell me Pak’s (read glorious army) real stance over Kashmir, if it has any? And who gave any right to decide the fate of millions of Kahmiris and Pakistanis to this tinpot dictator? Any ardent Musharraf lackey around?

](http://www.gulfnews.com/world/Pakistan/10087332.html) Pakistan could give up claim to Kashmir

                                                               New Delhi: Pakistani President General Pervez Musharraf has suggested that his country could be willing to give up its claim on Kashmir if India agrees to a self-governance plan.

Speaking in an interview on New Delhi Television, Musharraf said that Pakistan would agree to greater autonomy or self-governance for Kashmir with New Delhi and Islamabad jointly supervising the disputed region.

Asked if Pakistan was ready to give up its claim, he said: “We will have to … if this solution comes up.”

Both India and Pakistan claim all of predominantly Muslim Kashmir, and the dispute over Kashmir has claimed the lives of more than 68,000 people since1989.

Tensions have eased in the past few years and in 2004 India and Pakistan began a peace process.

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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

Some body got to shut him up.

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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

Finally someone got the nerves to do the right thing and ppl still got a problem with that......
get a life all u idiots who thinks that he is making a mistake......
he is putting a end to a almost 60 year old Galay Ka Azaab.
We should support our leader.

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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

yeah yeah

stab kashmiris in the butt.

Well paln musharraf.
History will never forget you. I hope allah fix him-- before making such a decesion.

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Re: Mushy’s non-stop nonsense

yeah.. kashmiris in in kashmir are musalmaan and ned our help, yet the bengalis were pushed around, and then the guy who won majority not allowed to rule teh country, resulting in the seperation.

the ppl stuck in bengladeshi camps who consider themselves Pakistanis, are on no one’s radar, from 1971 until now govt after govt has had an opportunty to let them come to Pakistan and no one has done that.

Today they are kashmiri bhai, tomorrow when they are part of Pakistan, it will be the same as oh, you are mohajir, you are sindhi you are baluchi..

I mean lets get real, the kashmir problem has not been solved by the current thinking in over half a century, why would you think that ‘staying the course’ in this case is the best option. if it has not provided results for such a long time, why is there some assumption that its going to click all of a sudden and all will be good.

No one in the world gives a damn and no one is going to do jack. Add to it India’s growing clout, and the bad press on ‘freedom fighters’ due to the negativity associated with mulsim militancy worldwide now, so no real support.

What is the goal then, continue to fight, and all, or grow up, and find a solution that helps everyone.

The amount of money spent on defense due to threat from India, would not have to be spent was there no conflict. In essence we are sacrificing the wellbeing of Pakistanis for our view of the wellbeing of kashmiris.

recognize the LOC, and any kashmiris who dont want to live in India, give them free houses in Pakistan, economically you will still come out ahead. and if kasmiris want to be independent and be an indpendent state, then let them be.

what is the logical alternative here? …

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Re: Mushy’s non-stop nonsense

You seem confused. The article explicitly mentions Musharaff sponsors the SELF GOVERNANCE of Kashmir. Who are you to say that Pakistanis have any right to decide the fate of Kashmiris? If anything, Kashmiris can best decide what is best for Kashmiris. A Pakistani satelite will not do. We need to get out. When both India and Pakistan are prepared to withdraw, they will have realized the strategy has failed miserably, and the best solution now is complete withdrawal.

The people of Kashmir, unfortunately, have been held hostage as a political tool by both Pakistanis and Indians - in particular Pakistan. Kashmir unites Sindhis, Balochis and Punjabis like nothing else, it’s a great unification myth. In reality, Pakistan does not care about them. Kashmir is, and always will be a strategic piece to amass the otherwise fragmented masses of Pakistan in Anti-India rhetoric. Its a political distraction.

In the end, we’re just fooling ourselves. Kashmiris must self govern themselves. If they decide to form some sort of unity with Pakistan later, ONLY then should Pakistanis consider inclusionary policies. The first step is self governance, and if India is willing to allow it - Pakistan has an obligation to the people of Kashmir to allow them self governance.

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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

Bangladesh is being "bey gairat"(shameless) for asking pakistan to take those people back.
They are living in a muslim state(bangladesh). Pakistan should not worry about them at all.
Its bangladesh responsibilty(remember muhajer and ensars---in madina)

That is just "wellcome " to pakistan.
For you information their are million of kashmiris living in pakistan with out any trouble.
Only kashmir who is not allowed in pakistan is Nawaz-Sharif hahahaha i am so funny

That would be merging back to india??? because our lazy a@@es cant handle of pressure of a bigger country???
What would have happened if usa had attaceked us instead of iraq???? we should gotten real then and onvert into americans???
Or if russia had attaked us instead of afghanistan === what would you say then put up with russia or be slaves???

did we ask any one to help----did we not use to ask allah for help??
what happened to us now???

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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

*Bangladesh is being "bey gairat"(shameless) for asking pakistan to take those people back. *

These are people who consider themselves pakistanis and refused bangladeshi citizenship which was offerfed to them i belive in 1972, about half a million plus ta that point decided that they wanted to be in pakistan and not Bangladesh. Pakistan had agreed in principle, and btw they are listed as refugees by ICRC as they registered themselves as refugees.

They are living in a muslim state(bangladesh). Pakistan should not worry about them at all.
Its bangladesh responsibilty(remember muhajer and ensars---in madina)

why should it not worry about its citizens, people who migrated from India to east pakistan because they wanted to be Pakistanis, only for Pakistan to later break up..we are responsible.

For you information their are million of kashmiris living in pakistan with out any trouble.

yeah its a little easier to cross the border on land versus oversea, especially if the country is not allowing you to come in aside from some minor gestures here and there.

That would be merging back to india??? because our lazy a@@es cant handle of pressure of a bigger country???

well, so its either accept LOC or let kashmir self govern i.e. be independent. which one do you prefer?

*did we ask any one to help----did we not use to ask allah for help??
what happened to us now??? *
God helps thoe who help themselves, and that includes getting global support behind one's position, and well we have not ben able to do that in over half a century. Militarily its impossible..especiallynow that both nations are nuclear powers.

and in the end, is this the best use of our energies? really..

you want rights for kashmiris, self rule will give them rights.

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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

^ bhai allah still is the greates.
and source of all knowledge.
We should not put our brains to dirty little trick.
We should make every effort to make life easier for kashmiris(occupied).
Kashmirs should do "saber" which is have faith and struggle.

Inshallah every thing will be as it supposed to be. Naver have fear of having no support.

Believe it or not our biggest support is indian's heart. No one in this world know more then indian's that where kashmir belongs.

What ever they say--they know it. If you keep talking to indian in calm manner you will be surprised what they think of kashmiris.
I was too.
Kashmiris have done that miricle already.

Inshallah allah will -will prevail.

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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

President Musharraf is just stating the obvious - we (Pakistan) do not claim Kashmir as "our" territory. Only India does that. We have long held that the Kashmiri's should be free to decide to their own destiny as to who they want to be part of.

Complete demilitirization and autonomy to the individual regions with "joint sovereignty" over all of Kashmir by Pakistan and India (which Musharraf is also stating in case someone missed it) is a viable medium term solution. Once again Musharraf has masterfully put India on the spot, and now they have to start to make the compromises they have long held back on.

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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

No this isn't nonsense. He has been saying this for over two years. Its just that he has put it in a different manner. When he came up with his own step-wise agenda for the resolution of kashmir, there was a great hue and cry from different sections of the society. It was equally shocking for the Indian government.
Now that entailed that Pakistan and India, both states give up their claims on Kashmir ( as in Pakistan demanding plebicite and hoping the entire Kashmiri population would side with it and Indians disapproving/denying and disagreeing whatever promises they made with regard to the plebicite or the UN resolutions, or worst still referring them as redundant; thereby asserting their right not only on the IHK but eyeing the Gilgit-Baltistan area too).

What are all those polices being drawn up at the behest of Washington, behind the scenes back-channel diplomacy, the track-II initiatives mean for the Kashmir problem---it is to compel India and Pakistan to come up with a solution/s other than laying claims on the entire territory, which basically kill the entire exercise.

Mush lacks the diplomatic finesse (which can be damaging too, given the sensitive nature of the issue) which is important for a leader. Otherwise he isn't saying anything new and is repeating himself ever since I guess he came from the Agra summit.

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Re: Mushy’s non-stop nonsense

abay, u meant kashmir not pakistan, :slight_smile: although there are pakistanis who probably dont claim pakistan, or atleats they act that way, ghaddar types also ppl who cheat the state and dont pay taxes included

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Re: Mushy’s non-stop nonsense

Ooops, I can’t imagine who I was thinking about when I made that faux pas. :snooty:
Shukran.

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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

No matter what he say he has proven himself to be a liar, so who knows what's going on in his power hungry head

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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

all politicians lie :) I am more interested in whatthey deliver to the nation.

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Re: Mushy’s non-stop nonsense

Dont you know some politicians delivered ‘marabbah and baklava’ to their horses :wink:

That had an everlasting impression on TRD here :wink: Ok now that I provoked him, he is going to tell us how Musharraf’s Government was recently found to be the most corrupt YET AGAIN :hehe:

please DO help ...
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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

Spock jog my memory a bit who was found guilty by swiss and british courts?

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Re: Mushy’s non-stop nonsense

He may have lied, he may be lying, he would lie more in the days to come but as they say, ’ is hammam main sab nangay hain.’ Its all relative in my view.
His probelm is that he shoots from the hip which goes against the norms of diplomacy and that irks people.

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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

minverva what did norms of diplomacy get us anyways? :)

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Re: Mushy's non-stop nonsense

Minerva:

These are mere rhetorics, aimed at gullible congeries of Pakistan. Every now and then he comes up with a new "viable solution" for the Kashmir problem and nobdy cares a damn, at leat not India, the dictator takes himself too seriously.

Don't forget India is a staturs-quo power with regards to Pakistan and she will never accpet any other solution of the Kashmir problem except the conversion of LOC into international border, which is by the way not acceptable to Pakistan.