Today’s Nawa-i-waqat is quoting a story related to Benazir Bhutto about the promotion of Musharraff. BB is saying that Gen. Aslam Beg approached her to reconsider her decision about the promotion of Musharraff from Brigadier to Maj. General. If this is true that means Musharraff was to be retired as a Brigadier. By reconsidering that decision on the recommendation of Aslam Beg, BB is responsible for all the mess we are in. Plus Aslam Beg being so called urdu speaking general recommending another urdu speaking officer for promotion shows that all those stories about the integrity and honesty of our merit and promotion standards are just stories.
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
Almost all the generals who ended up taking over Pakistan, were sifarishis. Ayub Khan was promoted out of turn as was Yahya and Zia...no professional soldier dabbles in politics. Professional soldiers have better things to do..then make money and break promises. They have soldiers to train, battles to imagine and troops to equip.
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
^True Zakk.
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
Seems that BB did not tell the whole story, did she? :)
In Army as in all institutions, it is their upper echelons that promote lower ranking officers to upper rank on suitability, performances and abilities. Once promotion above Brigadier level is decided, Chief of Army sends officer names to the Prime minister for signature. Prime Minister sign the files (and I believe send that to President to get it signed), that’s all. [Well, same happens for all laws too, that once Parliament decides, prime minister endorses, files go to President and President signs that. If President objects, he sends the files back with objection].
Same happened that Gen Aslam Baig sent many files for promotions of Brigadiers to then Prime Minister BB. But BB did not sign the file of Musharraf and sent it back. What I know, Aslam Beg sent the file back to BB with note that to put the reason behind not signing the file. This time, instead of putting any reasons (that she was asked), she signed the file.
Now, Aslam Beg promoted many Brigadiers that were from all provinces. If he was partial, then there would not have been any Brigadiers promoted from other provinces, right?
Obviously who are capable and who deserves promotion from amongst Brigadiers rank, only army would have knowledge, certainly knowledge much more than BB. But what BB did, it shows the mentality of BeNazir, not Aslam Beg, and it also shows that she was mentally partiality while she was Prime Minister (even though she was suppose to be impartial at that post and should be serving all, without partiality).
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
Today's Nawa-i-waqat is quoting a story related to Benazir Bhutto about the promotion of Musharraff. BB is saying that Gen. Aslam Beg approached her to reconsider her decision about the promotion of Musharraff from Brigadier to Maj. General. If this is true that means Musharraff was to be retired as a Brigadier. By reconsidering that decision on the recommendation of Aslam Beg, BB is responsible for all the mess we are in. Plus Aslam Beg being so called urdu speaking general recommending another urdu speaking officer for promotion shows that all those stories about the integrity and honesty of our merit and promotion standards are just stories.
First if you have a web reference to the story, it'll add weight to the discussion.
Secondly, I think *this *story is just a story rather than the Musharraf-Beg promotion-sifarish story.
Why?
Because lets assume it's true Musharraf was not to be promoted beyond Brigadier, who advocated his promotion to Lt Gen few years later after being a Maj Gen? And then Gen another few yrs later? Did that one time alleged Aslam Beg sifarish last a life time? Plus, the anti-Mush stance Aslam Beg has been in since the beginning, it doesn't seem he was ever too cosy with Musharraf. Additionaly, BB's statement regarding Musharraf's promotion in her book etc is hardly believable if one also refuses to believe Musharraf's version in his book where he thanks his then Div Cdr Maj Gen Farrukh (if i recall right) for guiding him against joining BB as her Mly Secy as requested by Zardari's pal Javed Pasha.
Lastly, it's logically hard to accept that Musharraf may have been retiring as Brig because professionally speaking he had all the courses and plus points that ensure promotion to Gen ranks.
And as Zakk said promotions beyond Maj Gen do inevitably have slight political element. But that doesnt mean the entire promotion system is untrustworthy. It's often manipulated as has been by many including Nawaz and BB, but mostly it's scientific and merit-based.
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
It's easy to speculate on peoples intentions, Hamid Gul was one of the people who spoke up for Musharraf in his ACR, similarly Gul Hasan Khan helped Zia get promoted. Similarly, Nawaz Sharif promoted Musharraf out of turn because he wanted a non Punjabi..non Pashtun Army Chief who could be easier to manipulate. Similarly Mush elevated Iftikhar Chaudhry to the top..thinking a young Punjabi from Balochistan would have no natural power base to challenge him..
The rule of thumb as much for life as in pakistani politics is this; you will never know what a person really is ..till they actually wield power.
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
I have heard this story many years ago (from army source) but never gave any weight to that. Recently BB revealed this story assuming that she is doing any favour to her image, but I believe that supposing if one assumes that what she said to be correct, to anyone who can use intelligence, the event can only give bad image about her and not of anyone else. The story tells of her own partiality while she was in office.
Officers are watched through out during their career and their Performance reports written by their superior watching them closely are studied, and 100s of Brigadiers get promoted every now and then. It is obvious that she as Prime minister could not tell of suitability, performances and abilities of Brigadier ranking junior officers (Seen from Prime Minister Position, Brigadier is respectively a junior officer).
Even chief of Army do not decides who should get recommended from off his hat, but whole system is there. Now, if Prime Minister starts interfering in promotion of Brigadiers who are recommended for promotion, what anyone could consider that and thinks of that Prime Minister?
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
Almost all the generals who ended up taking over Pakistan, were sifarishis. Ayub Khan was promoted out of turn as was Yahya and Zia...no professional soldier dabbles in politics. Professional soldiers have better things to do..then make money and break promises. They have soldiers to train, battles to imagine and troops to equip.
And how many of those do we have in Pakistan Army...and going back to the hogwash about promotion based on merits...try getting promoted to the rank of Lt. General or even Major General with a full beard...
Plus, in the last promotion batch to Lt. Gen. that Mush approve more then half were Urdu speakers....
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
Offourse, if there was no Musharraf there would not be any corruption, honor killings, terrorism, poverty, racism, tribal and ethnic vilolence in Pakistan.
It is so funny that these politicians who have proven corrupt and inept keep getting the media attention without any accountability.
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
During Black September of 1970, when Zia-ul-Haq led Pakistani and Jordanian army brutally killing tens of thousand Palestinian Muslims (Men, Women and Children) in Jordan and expelling them from Jordan, pushing many in Syria and causing creation of Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon and making them refugees all over the world (until that time, most Palestinians were refugees in Jordan), Zia was still a Brigadier (he stayed in Jordan from 1967 to 1970).
BY early 1975 Zia became corps commander (Lieutenant General Post), by 1976 (on April fool day, 1st April, 76) Bhutto promoted him to chief of army staff (surpassing many of his seniors) then Zia took the post of Chief Martial law administrator in 1977, and then President of Pakistan in 1978. He was promoted so fast, from Brigadier to Major General to Corps commander as lieutenant General to Chief of Army Staff as full General to Chief martial law administrator, and then to President (a very short span after killing so many innocent Palestinian men, woman and children), it must be a record time.
How come? Who was behind all these fast promotions? Surprisingly, most of Zia promotions and career progress happened during the time of Z A Bhutto, whom he hanged. Does anyone question his promotions? Other than his promotion to Chief of Army, that was off turn with wide margin, very few if any have ever questioned Zia’s other promotions. Why?
The reason is that Chief of Army staff promotion is only questioned because promotion to chief or army staff could be partial and political and thus that is the only promotion where Say of Prime Minister could matter. Chief of Army staff could become danger for Prime Minister. Major General cannot affect any political person neither a Lt General. Promotion from Brigadier to Major General, what that has to do with Prime Minister, unless Prime Minister is partial and want partiality even in Army.
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
Benazir knows about sifarish, after all her daddy had to write a sifarish to the president of harvard for her to get in.
seniors recommending juniors for promotion in the military is the established practice in tons of places. who better to gauge the performance and capability of military officers than their military superiors.
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
*Today's Nawa-i-waqat is quoting a story related to Benazir Bhutto about the promotion of Musharraff. BB is saying that Gen. Aslam Beg approached her to reconsider her decision about the promotion of Musharraff from Brigadier to Maj. General. If this is true that means Musharraff was to be retired as a Brigadier. By reconsidering that decision on the recommendation of Aslam Beg, BB is responsible for all the mess we are in. **Plus Aslam Beg being so called urdu speaking general recommending another urdu speaking officer for promotion shows that all those stories about the integrity and honesty of our merit and promotion standards are just stories.***
Same mentality thats keeping us behind the world. Try to extract out ethnic point of view from every news and every move. Get over it.
For your kind information, Army is an institution and no "Urdu Speaking" can give promotion to another "Urdu Speaking" without consulting the "majority of Punjabi Speaking" (its not a (pvt.) Ltd) and if you still insist on your point, then we have to take a step back and find out if all of the previous "Punjabi" generals got their promotion due to same reason
...and if you don't know, Army is not the only place where things work on recommendations. It happens in many other institute as normal paractice In fact here in US you can actually GET MONEY FOR RECOMMENDING ppl
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
Benazir knows about sifarish, after all her daddy had to write a sifarish to the president of harvard for her to get in.
as you like to say, where is the proof of your allegation?
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
*Does anyone know for sure how this promotion system in the army really works? My limited knowledge tells me that promotions up to Lt. General level are based purely on merit and are handled by the army selection and review boards based on performances and ACR'S. Politics and prime ministers come in the picture when Lt. Generals are promoted to full generals. We have seen that happen in Zia and Musharraff's cases where a senior Lt. General was superceded by a junior or less senior Lt. General. Assuming this to be true, Then BB's story is nothing but a figment of her imagination. *
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
What she claims might be right (I have heard of what she claimed, much before she claimed).
Well, what I know, in theory you are right. Nevertheless, if there is any partiality in army recruitments and promotions, it happens from people within the army (however seldom it happens, it is sad). I do not think that anyone from outsider the army, like political person or prime minister could do that. Interference of political person comes in when Lt General is appointed as chief of army staff.
Nevertheless, I believe files of all officers recommended for promotion over certain level are sent to Prime Minister for endorsement, as routine matter. Obviously, Prime Minister or any political person does not know and should not know much about these officers. The most a Prime Minister would know about a person recommended for promotion is what is there in their files (that is already vetted by the army regarding performance and personality of the person).
Just imagine that if political party or Prime Minister starts discriminating promotions and appointments based on their likes and dislikes at all posts in the army (or any National institutions), then if ML would be in power, only those close to ML would get promoted or appointed in all National institutions (including armed forces). Later if PPP comes to power, ML can use army and other institutions to crush PPP. Same goes regarding any political parties.
That would mean politicizing the army and other institutions, discriminating with Pakistanis on basis of their political inclination. If that would start, it would be a sad day for Pakistan and very dangerous trend for any country as that would make all institutions politicized, bringing one party rule in the country (by force). It happens in countries where political racists and fascists get into power, like communist countries.
It is also possible that in a country with multiple ethnicity, if prime minister want to (and is ethnic racist), he can start promoting and appointing people on ethnic background, and that would be a worse disaster for any country, as that could even breaks the country unity. It happened in Iraq during Saddam rule.
Well, there could be people who are religious-sectarian racists and when they come in power in a county with multi-religion or multi religious-sects, these people also try to dominate all institutions with appointments of only their sects. They could also destroy the country, probably worse than party racists. Taliban was religious-sectarian racist.
If BB tried to interfere into promotion of officer from Brigadier level to Major General, it means that she has very harmful and dangerous personality. If she comes to power and stay in power for long time, with such mentality and desires, she can easily destroy Pakistan.
- *
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
hey if she can kill her own brother for power then she can do anything. although he was a scum terrorist, but thats a whole diff thing. I am not sure why she did not bring him to justice legally though.
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
hey if she can kill her own brother for power then she can do anything. although he was a scum terrorist, but thats a whole diff thing. I am not sure why she did not bring him to justice legally though.
Bhai :). No doubt she is opportunists and can use any card she believes to be for her benefit. Power hungry person who is party racist (could do anything for her party) can even kill their brother if it is for the benefit. Her brother was a political danger for her and threat for her party.
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
[quote="Decent_6Chora, post:3, topic:161812"]
Same mentality thats keeping us behind the world. Try to extract out ethnic point of view from every news and every move. Get over it.
You are absolutely right. Look at that ex Taxi driver in London who is making fool of so called mohajirs of Karachi based on their ethnicity, minority status and their fears and he is quite successful at making a complete fool out of them.
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
well by creating an ethnic rift he is making a fool out of more ppl than just ppl of karachi.
Re: Musharraff, the safarshi
well by creating an ethnic rift he is making a fool out of more ppl than just ppl of karachi.
I stand corrected, Pir Sahib, You are absolutely right.