Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

Indeed.

BTW, US congressional committee has just approved $752 million of aid to Pakistan, and this was through support of both Democrats and Republicans. That is proof enough that US view on Musharaf is not changing a great deal, if anything they are increasing their support.

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

carrot and stick...

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

'Part of it, probably,' whereas before you were making definite statements and saying the whole topi drama is by Amreeka because we're not as pliant as they want us to be.

The problem with gauging patterns and constructing theories is that they are exactly that. Patterns and theories. Every Government in Pakistan has relied on the trusty foreign hand to bail itself out, sometimes using the America card, because its so believable for us. Likewise every political party in Pakistan has a theory based on patterns and trends.

If we are the first people to believe in America's meddling hand in everything that happens in Pak, and if they are really clever enough to control an entire country's complete political process, then they really should be clever enough to do it in a way that you cant figure it out. Why would Boucher et al give this statement if Musharraf's supporters can dilute opposition against him by picking them up and proving opposition to Musharraf is support for America?

As it is MQM and PML(Q) have talked about "beyrooni sazish" and "national interest". You'd think that the CIA agents etc would be more subtle about their scheming.

While I believe America does play a hand and does manipulate things where it has an oppurtunity, I dont believe they're competent enough to control all this, when they are the same country that are getting their asses handed to them in Iraq and Afghanistan, where they have to deal with relative minnows.

They may just be allying themselves with BB/NS seeing the winds change, as has Imran Khan. Does that mean hes controlling all this?

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

Well technically no one on this site as far as I know has the real story and ins and outs of it, so what we post is our theories and assumptions. so those definitive statements as you call them were just that..views..when you look at the specifics of the views then yeah US can have a part, internal military, political opposition can have a part.

it does not mean that patterns and trends do not exist though does it. Its tantamount to telling an afghan that Pakistani agencies had nothing to do with the events that eventually put Taleban in place.

maybe not everything, but on issues critical to US, and the war on terror is critical enough. The question is not of supporting opposition is support for US. Because the theory is whoever is in power, whether its new faces or musharraf stays that they will be more accomodating. How many people here scream that pakistan is controlled by military. so if it is, does military not answer to anyone...maybe not in Pakistan, but they sure answered to US when the war on afghanistan was finalized.

and I suppose we still believe that Zia's death was of natural causes and it was not either our own services or external agencies or combination of them involved in that.

If we can have schemes behind getting rid of Zia, I am sure there can be schemes for getting rid of anyone. Whether its Musharraf or Kafeel Bhai.

two entirely different things. poor war execution is different from clandestine operations.

its similar to ISI vs Military, while the military got its arse handed to it a few times, ISI has been fairly successful in manipulating govts internally and externally case in point taleban, and use proxy tactics to keep India busy.

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

I actually did think you had some specific info. i said we Pakistanies are ready to believe in America's hand very quickly :)

[quote]

it does not mean that patterns and trends do not exist though does it. Its tantamount to telling an afghan that Pakistani agencies had nothing to do with the events that eventually put Taleban in place.

maybe not everything, but on issues critical to US, and the war on terror is critical enough. The question is not of supporting opposition is support for US. Because the theory is whoever is in power, whether its new faces or musharraf stays that they will be more accomodating. How many people here scream that pakistan is controlled by military. so if it is, does military not answer to anyone...maybe not in Pakistan, but they sure answered to US when the war on afghanistan was finalized.

and I suppose we still believe that Zia's death was of natural causes and it was not either our own services or external agencies or combination of them involved in that.

If we can have schemes behind getting rid of Zia, I am sure there can be schemes for getting rid of anyone. Whether its Musharraf or Kafeel Bhai.

two entirely different things. poor war execution is different from clandestine operations.

its similar to ISI vs Military, while the military got its arse handed to it a few times, ISI has been fairly successful in manipulating govts internally and externally case in point taleban, and use proxy tactics to keep India busy.
[/QUOTE]

baat lambi ho jaye gi, and in the end it will remain conjecture since neither of us can prove it either way. isliay i wont go into this debate about who Amreeka might be supporting. However I dont believe that America is controlling the lawyers/all of the political parties/judiciary OR that this whole situation was created by US because of Mush's handling of FATA. They may be playing their own little game to get the best out of the situation whichever the way the dice rolls.

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

it is all conjecture bhai, every single post on Pakistani politics is conjecture, and this is events unfolding right now, we friggin dont even know all the facts about decades old stuff :)

I dont think US is controlling the lawyers, lawyers have the blessing of political parties they support and political parties have the blessings of US. so its less of direct hands on stuff more of indirect encouragement and blessings

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

Was it USA that got Musharraf into power in Pakistan that they can force him to do anything they like?

I believe that if it was in the hand of USA, Musharraf would have never got into power in Pakistan. I would be surprised if President would shed his uniform or leave presidency in near future, regardless of what USA would like.

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

Long Live US Viceroy for the colony of Pakistan - Richard Boucher. :lifey:

Hmmm..

He seems much better than Lord Mountbatten.

Well I hope our government in Washington is nice and so sends some nice leader this time. But i doubt it… How can they tolerate a rebellious colony like Pakistan that tired to stand up with a nuclear explosion.

Oh I wish I wish… that they make us a state of the United States instead of keeping us as a colony.

God Bless America! :slight_smile:

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

Nahi Yar...Fraudia bhai :)

Its all a direct hand since day 1.

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

I think ur prediction is wrong. I think Mushrraf is going to be around for another 5 years. By then he will be the longest serving dictator in Pakistan's history.

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

Its the Pakistani people that are the ultimate masters and not the U.S. The U.S wants to encourage democracy as it does not an unstable Pakistan. People may have short memories but BB and NS were disasters for Pakistan. Mushy is still the best option but he needs to let go of the uniform.

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

International analysts also believe Mush is on his way out
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\06\13\story_13-6-2007_pg7_18

Doubts grow over Musharraf’s political longevity: US paper

WASHINGTON: American analysts both inside and outside the government are expressing new doubts that President Pervez Musharraf will be able to hold onto power through the summer, according to a report in the New York Sun on Tuesday.

The challenges facing Gen Musharraf have led some analysts in the US intelligence community to begin questioning whether the military will support the current regime for much longer. A Musharraf exit could deal a stinging blow to America in the war on terrorism. “President Bush has lavished the Pakistani leader with arms sales and low-interest loans while keeping mum on his spotty human rights record. The logic has been that the general, who himself came to power in a 1999 military coup, had dismantled his pre-September 11, 2001, policy of supporting the Taliban and would be the best possible option for US interests in Pakistan. But the strongman’s grip on power appears to be loosening, with a number of analysts citing as evidence last month’s showdown inside Islamabad’s Red Mosque … after Musharraf tried and failed to launch a military strike on the building,” the report notes.

According to the newspaper, it is now an open question within the intelligence community whether the order the president gave to storm the mosque was disobeyed or never given. A former Pakistan analyst for the State Department’s policy planning staff, Daniel Markey, said this week that it “was very hard to know” whether officers would follow every order the military receives.

Markey, who left government in January and recently returned from Pakistan, also said it was too soon to say Musharraf’s political demise is a certainty. “There is the potential rosy Pakistan next spring, with some sort of negotiated relationship where the military feel reasonably comfortable with a new civilian government,” he said. “But that is if we get that far. For the chief justice issue crisis, the political debate, the street protests that have been associated with that, people are raising questions about Musharraf’s stability in a way that I have not quite heard before.”

According to another analyst, Spencer Ackerman, within the US intelligence community, and in Pakistan, there’s a growing belief that Musharraf’s days are drawing to a close – and possibly within the next few months. It may be time for the US to face what it’s long feared in the nuclear state: the prospect of chaos, rising Islamism or anti-Americanism that follows Musharraf.

But the hope – among Pakistani military officers and politicians, to say nothing of US diplomats – is that the “increasingly inept and unpopular” Musharraf can be eased out of power while the US slowly distances itself from him, allowing for as smooth a transition as is possible.

Over the past few weeks, US intelligence has started to conclude that Musharraf is on his way out. “It is the sense people have, and it’s been out there,” says Rob Richer, a former deputy head of CIA operations who has met Musharraf personally and long worked with the Pakistanis on intelligence issues. “This is the view of both senior (US intelligence) officials and people who follow the issue closely.” He believes the Pakistani military leader is “looking for an exit strategy.” According to Richer, “He believes his successor has got to be someone who supports the military but it won’t necessarily be someone in uniform. There’s no obvious candidate … At this point, he’s looking for the right person, a right-winger, someone who understands the army.”

According to an unnamed former Pakistani official two Pakistani generals who came to Washington in recent months brought the message that “continuity in policy can be ensured without the continuity of an individual, while at the same time, a democratic process can proceed.” In other words, the US can wean itself off of Musharraf without fear that the US-Pakistani alliance is at risk, and will likely have some kind of election to point to that blesses the result. Not many see the Islamists as able to take control.


Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

well with two US govt officials talking to all parties, Negroponte is on his way..It may mean that the players come to some sort of agreement. power sharing, and/or leaving uniform. that is the only other alternative.

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

Musharraf will not shed his uniform. He, on the other hand, is not running for President. I have been saying that for a month now. He is just there to make sure Nawaz and Benazir do not run for election, thus starting a new chapter in Pakistan.

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

^

Just the thought of Pakistan's helm is in the hands of nincompoops like BB or NS makes me shudder.

Musharraf is one of the most sincere and great leaders Pakistan has seen in a long time.

Musharraf Zindabad!

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

I truly hope that is the case.

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

kewn? Nawaz Sharif ya Bibi ne Musharraf ki lungi churayee hai?

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

:rotfl:

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

Why not? Let's look at things logically. He does not enjoy the political support from his party or MQM. They all want him to either decide between uniform or Presidency. Army is backing him in down time and his party is distancing itself. Moreover, United States is backing him only in the hope that general election will take place. He has been talking about his Presidency has a matter of "circumstances" rather something he wanted to do. Also, uniform as his "second skin".

The only thing I would say will keep him securing both status is 1) unforseen circustances with political unrest going out of control to some serious extremists activities in Pakistan. 2) Deal with PPP, if Benazir plays her card right, which is tell Musharraf that if is not me than no more of you. I think he will take that easily. Otherwise, if she goes on to legitimize his rule in exchange of dropping charges and other back door deals. Things could go differently.

Overall, I think 70% chance Musharraf stays in army and does not run for election.

Re: Musharraf will not be in office by this time next year.

^ How can he stay as COAS then? The COAS post is for three years. If Musharraf had himself not been the president, he would have been retired as COAS in 2001. So it's all or none phenomenon with Musharraf as I see it. Chances are he will neither resign nor quit the COAS post and remain in power for a while still.