Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
Sabzi Man, what about those ethnicities who dont want 'pashtunia etc'?
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
The same logic should be applied to baluchistan (where 50 % are pashtuns) or the pashtuns in punjab (mianwali, etc0. Come on don't give me the punjab mean 5 rivers, its not an ethnicity, etc. No one an be a punjabi except one that is ethnically so. Afghan comes form ashvakayana meaning horseman or cavalry men, so everyone who is a horse rider or cavalry men is a afghan?? This is weak logic.
Now to fully answer your question, the area has been known as pashtunkhwa (the soul of the afghans), Afghania, even haudry rehman ali mentioned in his writings. Plus, if you are talking about Hazara, then here are pashutns living there, the areas that are non-pashtun split it up or do whatever, I still thiknk the government has made a simple request and right of the pashtun people to rename the province into a joke. Khyber, please, lollllllll
P.S. ITS AFGHANIA
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
OK so Aryana comprising all Pushtoon areas, will include the whole southern Afghanistan!
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
I meant the pashtun areas within Present-day Pakistan, but if you are that enthusiastic for pashtun unity, then nice idea. Glad to know you have seen the light.
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
Now to fully answer your question, the area has been known as pashtunkhwa (the soul of the afghans), Afghania, even haudry rehman ali mentioned in his writings. Plus, if you are talking about Hazara, then here are pashutns living there, the areas that are non-pashtun split it up or do whatever, I still thiknk the government has made a simple request and right of the pashtun people to rename the province into a joke. Khyber, please, lollllllll
P.S. ITS AFGHANIA
Sabzi man, pahstunia afghankhwa etc dont make sense cuz the non-pakhtuns dont want it, and please stop giving baluchistan or punjab or sindhs example, as they never picked a name, it was as it was, since partition. We wont split up a province just because you want one part to be named afghan khawa, we'll give it a 'united' name instead and khyber is the best option.
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
No it was not, the northern areas of Baluchistan are pashtun, they were together with Qandahar and waht not. Khyber is not the right, there already is a khyber. This is a joke, seriously now even a guy musharraf has his two cents in. Great what next.
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
Hindko-speaking Hazara was part of Punjab not too long before 1947, and the non-Pakhtun speaking districts of Chitral, D I Khan and Kohistan were only added to NWFP in the early 1970's.
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
I agree about chitral and what not. Is that not part of the northern areas? I didn't think it was under NWFP's jurisdition.
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
No Chitral is a district in the far north western part of NWFP, bordering Afghanistan. It was a separate princely state ruled by the Katur royal family for over 257 years until 1969, when it was made part of NWFP, although most of it's population speak Khowari (Chitrali) not Pahsto.
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
Pashtuns are native AFGHANS. Afghania is the rightful name for the NWFP.
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
From Dawn newspaper: I cannot post the link because i have not posted 15 mails yet. so I am excluding a part of the link
w.dawn.c_m/2003/05/10/letted.htm#4
Please read all other letters related to the issue in dawn. It will clear the problem and would show the reason NWFP name cannot be changed to a name that relates the province to only one ethnic community living in that province. If that would happen, it would just please one ethnic community living in that area at the cost of others. [We should note and appreciate that NWFP situation is not same as name situation of other provinces, as name of other provinces is name what Pakistan inherited at the time of independence].
**
Ethnic population of NWFP**
THIS refers to a letter captioned “A new name for NWFP” by Mr Mohammad Azam Khan (April 25).
The 1998 provincial census report of the NWFP, published by the population census organization, government of NWFP, is not accurate as far as the exact number of the different nationalities is concerned. It has no proper information on Hindko-speaking population.
It is strange that the mother tongue column in annexure-C of the fifth population census form mentioned even Darri, a language spoken by the refugees from Afghanistan, but not Hindko which is one of the two main languages of the NWFP.
It is important to state here that when the government had unveiled the plan for holding the fifth population census, the Hindkowans of the NWFP were shocked to know that their mother tongue, Hindko, had not been included in the census form prepared for the purpose. Resenting it, they moved the Peshawar High Court to get the wrong rectified. The apex court summoned the authorities, but they expressed their inability to include Hindko in the form on the plea that all forms had already been printed and they had neither the time nor the resources to print fresh ones.
Thus the census conducted in the country from March 2 to 18, 1998, had no column for the Hindko language; hence there is no information about the exact number of the speakers of this language who live in Peshawar, Kohat and Hazara regions of the NWFP. What can be the credibility of a count conducted by ignoring millions of people of the NWFP?
Actually not only Hindko, but also Kohistani, Goujri and Kohwar languages were omitted from the census perhaps to show that the NWFP was a unilinguistic province. The myth of the Pushtoon majority would stand shattered once there is a fair linguistic survey of the NWFP inhabitants who, apart from Pushtoons, also include Hindkowans, Seraikis, Kohistanis, Goujris and Chitralis.
ANEEQ AHMAD
Peshawar
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
I don’t know about what that person says in his letter, but the government of NWFP states the following in it’s official website i.e. that 1/3 of it’s population is non-Pakhtun.
Around 68 per cent of the households in NWFP are Pukhtu speaking, eighteen per cent are Hindko speaking while Seraiki is the mother tongue of four per cent. Around eight per cent of households speak local languages, such as Kohwar in Chitral district, while Urdu and Punjabi speaking migrants account for only two per cent of the households.
http://www.nwfp.gov.pk/AIS-page.php?DistId=1&DeptId=1&LanId=1&pageName=NWFP-PeopleCulture
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
Interesting!
If you could add the column of Siraki -which has the largest speaker concentration in Punjab, and is considered distinct from the dialect/language spoken in central Punjab- in the forms, then why not Hindko or other languages? Why do they have to be kept under the mysterious heading of ‘others’ especially when their speakers form a significant share of total population? Have a look at these statistics. NWFP was the only province where more than 20% people spoke ‘other’ languages. Why force them to choose between Pashtu and ‘others’? There are a considerable number of ‘others’ in Balochistan, Sindh and Islamabad as well.
Nevertheless, people of NWFP/Khyber/Pakhtunkhwa should be able to choose any new name for their province.
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
yes it does, u simply fail to understand simple democratic principles of respecting majority decisions even if it was pukhtoons...
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
Some here believe that majority should impose their will over minority living in NWFP (and they even consider that as their democratic right). Do these people have brain? I am sure they have, so why they do not think?
Democracy does not mean imposing will or desire of majority over minority but it means majority respecting the desires and need of minority. It is a concept of society where all living there feel as equal part of the society and their desire or need is not rejected by the society (regardless of them being from majority or minority). In civilized democratic society, majority and minority do not matter as much as right, justice and equality, where majority safeguard that for all.
What is happening regarding name for NWFP is that majority of Pakistanis are respecting and safeguarding the rights of minorities (non-Pashtun) living in NWFP in the same way this majority respect and safeguard the rights of ethnic minority (Pashtun) living in Pakistan.
Note: If non-Pashtun living in NWFP makes a third of NWFP population (1 in 3) then one should also realize that total population of NWFP in Pakistan, that includes Pashtun and non-Pashtun population of NWFP, only makes a seventh of Pakistani population (that is 1 in 7).
So, please do not talk about majority imposing the will over minorities. We should live and let the other live without imposing of will by anyone over the others. That means there should not be a name for NWFP that seems as imposing the desire of one ethnic population over others or reflecting one ethnic community living in NWFP, whatever their number.
I am sure that Pashtuns and many others would not like the name of Pakistan changed to ‘Punjab’ or ‘Punjabistan’ just because majority of Pakistanis are Punjabi. If Punjabis start proposing a new name like ‘Punjabistan’ for Pakistan, demanding that on the basis that they are majority, then probably many non-Punjabi Pakistanis would start feeling alienated and would start hating Punjabis just for that.
Thus, those who are proposing Pashtun related name for NWFP just because Pashtun are majority in NWFP should stop thinking that way. Else, they would start a hate for themselves in the heart of a third of the population living in NWFP (e.g Sarhadis) similar to the hate against Punjabis if Punjabis start proposing replacing the name of Pakistan to ‘Punjabistan’.
It seems that mentally some Pashtuns are still living and thinking as if they are from self-centered uncivilized tribal era [that still exists in Afghanistan where one tribe can cut the throat of even an infant (or a child) from another tribe, just because they would considered this infant or child as different to them]. Probably these people are in reality Afghanis pretending to be Pakistani as most Pakistani Pashtun are civilized.
In civilized society, people live with awareness of others desires or needs and value it similar way as they value their own desire or needs. It is something that is the backbone of modern day civilized society and made people live in harmony even when they are from diverse ethnic background. This modern day living demands thinking and attitude towards life that follow the principle of ‘live and let live’ without imposing own will over others based on majority or might. When we should desire something that effects life of others, that desire should not be unjust based on ethnic desires but should be just and based on communal desire, where all effected should not feel injustice or being left behind.
Probably many such Pashtuns would get shiver if I tell them that future is not that far when we will see no Pashtun, Punjabi, Muhajir, Sindhi, Baloch, Makrani, Saraki etc in Pakistan but one community indistinguishable from each other living in Pakistan. Let us hope for the best.
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
In regards to hindko speakers, there are tribes like jaddoon who are hindko speaing, but pure blooded pashtuns, so lets not get carried away here.
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
Dabz well many of the people taking such a firm stand on this issue used to insist on including Hindko speakers like Ayub Khan and persian speakers like Yahya in the pashtun category. They also forget hindko speakers in peshawar, kohat and kohistanis have virtually no objection to renaming the province. Mind you thats no surprise many of them are passionate supporters of kalabagh dam and were happy to ignore provincial rights at that time..
Here is what Rahmat Ali had to say about renaming..Pakistan: The Fatherland of Pak Nation (Ali 1940) "North West Frontier Province - is semantically non-descript and socially wrongful. It is non-descript because it merely indicates their geographical situation as a province of old 'British India' [which no longer exists]. It is wrongful because it suppresses the social entity of these people. In fact, it suppresses that entity so completely that when composing the name 'Pakistan' for our homelands, I had to call the North West Frontier Province the Afghan Province."
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
I dont see why the people who arent NWFP residents should have any quams over the name given to the Provnce. The naming of the province has nothing to do with Punjabis, Sindhis or anyone else.
The majority of the province is Pathan, and thus the province should be named for them. After all, isnt a referandum a way to gauge the oppinion of the majority?
Also, lets not forget that Pathans have been a VERY large portion of Balochistan, and yet they have never had a problem with living in a province named after completely different ethnic group, which is probably a minority in that province now.
Pathans deserve to name their province after their own ethnicity, or whaever name the choose. If non Pathans have a problem with that then its somthing they will have to live with. Pathans have waited long enough.
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
Sa1eem that makes sense, as proud as we may be of our identity it doesn't give us the right to airbrush anyone elses identity.
What's this "pure blood, impure blood" bullcrap? What are you a Punjabi? Like you once admitted pure bloodidness is nothing more than a pipedream, it doesn't exist in reality, Pashtuns are not pure race, or pure Aryan or anything, even Pashto speaking Pashtuns have been mixing with other races for centuries.
Pure blooded doesn't matter, if someones father is a Pashtun they are a Pashtun, paternal lineage is what determines ethnicity, our poets and kings married women of other ethnicities but their offspring were Pashtun, I think the same happened with Hindko speaking Pashtuns, their forefathers took Hindko speaking Khatri princesses for wives or maybe concubines but their children inherited their paternal identity but sadly lost their language, there must have been intermarriage for them to loose the language, people don't just start speaking a different language just like that.
Re: Musharraf proposes to name NWFP as ‘Khyber’
When the last time there was a vote in the NWFP assembly on renaming the province to Pakhtunkhwa almost all members of the Hazara region (plus others from the rest of NWFP) abstained. As you say the region also includes people of non-Hindko ethnicity, this obviously means not all Pashtuns support a name change.