Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
Merc2K
Plz tell him to bring peace in Pakistan first.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
resolve kashmir first and then use that on ur resume to resolve Palestine. Still not a bad move...atleast he is not taking the perverted view of declaring israel as enemy and going into a shell.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
Merc2K
Plz tell him to bring peace in Pakistan first.
Actually great progress is made on the Kashmir front.
Pakistan PM said that Kashmir solution is on the verge of being finalized. Once that is done Pakistan can exert its influence on other matters.
Pakistan has the most powerful Military in the Islamic World. It has 2nd largest population in the Islamic World. It is strategically located.
Pakistan must become a major player in Global Islamic Issues.
Israel-Palestine Conflict is one of these issues.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
^^ ya exactly. In the very least, it will show Pakistan as a major player in Islamic/Muslim issues.
Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran are the major powers in the Islamic World.
Its about time that Pakistan start exercising this right
How can Pakistan be taken seriously when it on the one hand secured nuclear technologies against the West's wishes (through ill gotten means, no less), and yet is warning Iran of doing exactly the same.
Such nations are dismissed as lackey nations, and are rarely taken seriously.
In any case, Iran’s nuclear ambition is no threat to Pakistan (after all, they helped). It's best to not say a word on the matter...the usual diplomatic clap trap about maintaining neighborly relations, and that Iran's nuclear ambition's had led to an 'unfortunate' misunderstanding with the world is all that he had to do.
Unless there was political capital, such as advancing the sino-Pakistani axis, such statements do not serve the interest of Pakistan, and should not be made. The West is not an ally, but a client.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
Even if Mushy's efforts won't produce any real results.. it will atleast promote a better image of Pakistan...
Depends on how even handed, or sane, the effort is.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
but the palestnian issue is one that they use as the major issue to get ppl riled up. I dont recall any extremist jackass outfit or their sympathiser mullahs recruiting ppl to go spread peace in Darfur. Maybe I missed it.
You'd kindly also point out that the Darfur rebels are no saints either. Not siding with anyone would be appropriate, as they're all power hungnry swine.
The mullahs are actually doing the right thing in not supporintg division.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
Now that they have their own country, have power and have openly defeated Arabs on the battlefield. This is something that Arabs cannot comprehend.
The problem with this thinking is that there is no closure. If you legitimize the land grab through force, then clearly the use of force is justified in taking it back.
Israel is on the loosing side of that race. If that's the mentatlity of the region, Pakistan is best advised to stay out.
[quote]
With this kind of mindset, Arabs will never accept Israel nor will they make peace with Israel.
[/quote]
It's 2007, not 1980. The Arabs have been at the forefront with rather reasonable offers. The Israelis have been insane in what they were offering in return as a Palestinian 'state'...clearly designed to insult, and a clear message that they are not at all interested in a political process so long as they have the upper hand. Again, the Palestinians have but to wait before demographics alone fixes the situation.
Overall, bth sides exhibit a mindset one would expect from the mildly retarded. I'll say again, this is not a mess Pakistan needs to get involved with as India, and the West itself, is the bigger menace going forward.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
How can Pakistan be taken seriously when it on the one hand secured nuclear technologies against the West's wishes (through ill gotten means, no less), and yet is warning Iran of doing exactly the same.
Such nations are dismissed as lackey nations, and are rarely taken seriously.
In any case, Iran’s nuclear ambition is no threat to Pakistan (after all, they helped). It's best to not say a word on the matter...the usual diplomatic clap trap about maintaining neighborly relations, and that Iran's nuclear ambition's had led to an 'unfortunate' misunderstanding with the world is all that he had to do.
Unless there was political capital, such as advancing the sino-Pakistani axis, such statements do not serve the interest of Pakistan, and should not be made. The West is not an ally, but a client.
that is because Pakistan's nuclear weapons are aimed at India where as Iran's nuclear weapons are aimed at exerting regional influence, attacking Israel and the West
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
Does Pakistan recognise Israel as a state/country?
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
^^ It said it will once the Palestine dispute is settled
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
that is because Pakistan's nuclear weapons are aimed at India where as Iran's nuclear weapons are aimed at exerting regional influence, attacking Israel and the West
It's because Pakistan has threat from India, while Iran has obvious threat from Israel and Americans.
Threat against Iran from Israel and America is so imminent that there is a talk of Americans attacking Iran anytime this year. You yourself started a thread on this issue.
So it is not about "regional influence". It is about survival. As far as region is concerned, Iran has repeatedly called Persian Gulf countries to have a common security arrangement.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
but the palestnian issue is one that they use as the major issue to get ppl riled up.
If fanatics make common folks go nuts on Israel-Pal issue then those agitated people should attack Israel and its interests. But they don't do it. Not a single one of them ever tried anything against Israel.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
^^ No. Thats not true.
Its because the Israelis are Jewish. When Jews lived with Arabs, they lived as Minorities with very little or no power.
Now that they have their own country, have power and have openly defeated Arabs on the battlefield. This is something that Arabs cannot comprehend.
According to their fictitious translations of the Holy Quran they consider Jews to be pigs and monkeys but how can these creatures defeat the chosen race of God, the Arabs on whom he bestowed Prophet Muhammed and Islam
That is the mindset of Arabs. They consider themselves as God's chosen people and think of Jews as nothing more than pigs and monkeys. But are frustrated that these people have managed to hold on their own.
To explain this, they invent conspiracy theories.
With this kind of mindset, Arabs will never accept Israel nor will they make peace with Israel.
By the way, Jews were already living there before the creation of Israel and during the Ottoman Empire before 1918.
This Jewish gathering is a exaggerated myth. I admit that Jews came from all over the world, but they settled in areas which had a Jewish majority such as the coastal areas and West Jerusalem.
All above is plain bull. These are mere opinions of an individual. No hard facts behind this rhetoric.
Arabs are against Israel due to it being an occupier force. It did not start as a religious issue at all. Yasir Arafat was Pal leader his whole life, and his movement was based on Pal nationhood, not on religion. This is why PLA has always have Pal Christians in the movement. Even Arafat's wife was Christian. Even today, Yasir Arafat's Fatah movement is extremely against religious movement of Hamas.
The whole world knows it. Even many Jews say that. I am talking about Jews Against Zionism.
It's only Zionists and their sympathizers who yell about "anti-Semitic" Arabs.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
I think everyone agrees in this thread that Musharraf's offering himself as "volunteer" is just a PR stunt.
Pakistani politicians should first think of improving lives of their own people before interfering in others affairs. First it was Bhutto, and now it is Musharraf.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
You really think anybody in the Mid East listen's to Pakistan?!
Pakistan and Musharraf can't do anything, and Mush know's it.
Just another attention seeking PR stunt
hahahaha exactly what i was gona say!
It would be a miracle if Musharraf resolves the disputes between them two countries.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
All above is plain bull. These are mere opinions of an individual. No hard facts behind this rhetoric.
Arabs are against Israel due to it being an occupier force. It did not start as a religious issue at all. Yasir Arafat was Pal leader his whole life, and his movement was based on Pal nationhood, not on religion. This is why PLA has always have Pal Christians in the movement. Even Arafat's wife was Christian. Even today, Yasir Arafat's Fatah movement is extremely against religious movement of Hamas.
The whole world knows it. Even many Jews say that. I am talking about Jews Against Zionism. It's only Zionists and their sympathizers who yell about "anti-Semitic" Arabs.
All above is plain bull. These are mere opinions of an individual. No hard facts behind this rhetoric.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
It's because Pakistan has threat from India, while Iran has obvious threat from Israel and Americans. Threat against Iran from Israel and America is so imminent that there is a talk of Americans attacking Iran anytime this year. You yourself started a thread on this issue.
So it is not about "regional influence". It is about survival. As far as region is concerned, Iran has repeatedly called Persian Gulf countries to have a common security arrangement.
Iran has threat from Israel because Iran has repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel. You cannot destroy a country without nuclear weapons.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
As I mentioned above, this PR stunt is short lived…
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\04\23\story_23-4-2007_pg1_7
Olmert rejects Musharraf’s mediation offer
JERUSALEM: Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Sunday politely turned down an offer by President Gen Pervez Musharraf to serve as a go-between Israel and the Palestinians.
Speaking in a radio interview, Olmert said he preferred to maintain direct contacts with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and not depend on an intermediary. “We don’t need someone to come from afar in order for me and Abu Mazen to meet,” he said, referring to Abbas.
Gen Musharraf made the offer of mediation in an interview to Arab satellite station Al-Arabiya on Friday.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
Any true Muslim cannot be anti Jews. Jews always lived amongst Muslims with security, throughout history. Even today, apart of a particular terrorist group that call themselves Muslim, Jews are safe amongst Muslim everywhere. [As for these terrorists group, none are safe from them, not even innocent Muslims, unless they are part of that terrorist group or their supporter].
Israel and Jews is two different things. Actually, there are Jews that oppose creation of Israel, as according to Jews, they could not have a state until last Prophet comes (for whom they are still waiting). Zionists, most of them are not Semitic Jews but are Ashkenazi (though they claim to be Jews), and have no link to Palestine, are real problem. Ashkenazi Jews are people of Europe that took up Judaism. Judaism cannot be adopted or converted into. Jews is not religion, it literally means descendent of Yaqub (AS), that’s it. When Ashkenazi Jews are probably not even descendent of Yaqub (AS), but are mostly converts, they are not even Semitic [children of Saam] then how can they be Jews?
[Note: Allah forbids people to call themselves descendent of someone when that person is not. In the eyes of Allah, only children with true blood relation and not even adopted children can call themselves descendent of someone (however eminent that someone may be). Only immoral people could do that. Kuffars of Mecca use to do that and Allah forbidden that. Jews follow the same principle. Rather, to make sure, only person that is born of a female Jew can call themselves Jew, as there could be no doubt that child of a female is descendent. Child of male could be doubtful. Hence traditional Jews do not consider a child from Jew Father and non Jew mother to be Jew (however wrong that maybe). Ashkenazi Jews are either converts (mostly) or could be descendent of non Jew mother]
Jews settled in Israel, most are Ashkenazi and have no link to the area that is Palestine. That is the biggest problem. Thus unfortunately, Israel problem would always stay, until it would get solved someday with lots of bloodshed. [It is not that what I want, it is what I feel from analysing the situation and historical events, hope that I am wrong and peace comes to the region without bloodshed]. No entity (Israel) can survive for too long as entity, when that entity is engulfed by different entity (Islam) from all side.
Military strength of a country or people is fluid thing and keeps changing with time, so does the reality on ground changes with time. As for temporary occupation of Palestine, it does not matter, as that also happened in past, with occupation lasting much longer than present occupation by Ashkenazi Jews. That occupation was by much powerful adversary ‘Christians’ still that did not last.
What President Musharraf is doing is commendable. A person can try that’s all. Result depends on many things that are not in the hand of any individual (but Allah). As for calling President’s move PR stunt, that is ridiculous. Such stunt is needed by corrupt politicians like BB and NS to survive, as their survival depends on making innocent people fool. These corrupts survive on PR stunts. As for someone that came to power not by fooling people, PR stunt means little. As for doing something to solve Palestinian problem, it is desire of all Muslims, and I could not see any PR issue there.
If President Musharrf was worried about PR stunt amongst Pakistanis, he would not have acted against CJ, would not have acted against Bugti, would not have kicked Taliban and their supporters, would not have sided with USA. We should remember that USA did not brought Musharraf to power and was against army deposing Nawaz. USA did not support Musharraf during hard periods of 1999-2001 (2 complete years), rather was doing everything to get rid of Musharraf from Power. If Musharraf was worried about PR outside Pakistan, he would not have let these retards of Masdrassa get away. Musharraf action against Talibans and their retarded supporters would have been more vicious.
For instance, if I was in place of Musharraf, then NOT to please west but to get rid of retards from Pakistan, I would have allowed USA to bomb all justified targets in tribal area at will. Meanwhile Pakistan forces would have been waiting for them outside tribal area to shoot them on identification, if they run towards Pakistan settled area to save themselves from American bombing.
I would also have brought policy of zero tolerance against those that promote any sort of disunity and disharmony in the country (through their speeches or whatever), or make any Pakistani feel unsafe. Any breaking of country’s law on the basis of people’s interpretation of Islam would get no tolerance and would have got crushed with heavy hand. So, I do not think that President Musharraf move regarding Palestine solution, is anything to do with PR.
Re: Musharaf volunteers to help bring peace to Middle East
hahahaha exactly what i was gona say!
It would be a miracle if Musharraf resolves the disputes between them two countries.
It would be a miracle if anyone resolves the dispute between those 2 sides. Otherwise, I would have just gone over and resolved the dispute over memorial day weekend.
Just because its tough does not mean one should not try or offer to help. Even if it means that the offer of help would not be accepted.