Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

Salam Alaikum

As the title suggests, i have a few things to say on the issue of Mullah-Bashing and how it has become somewhat of a fashion. These are my personal views, and i expect nothing significant to change as a result of this. I just hope we can share our views in regards to what i have to say, and please feel free to correct me if i am wrong.

I have seen that we have often joined the bandwagon and gone much out of our way to bash Mullahs withour actually realizing that we are harming no one but ourselves. Islam teaches us to be modest in speech, as well as in our actions. We are advised not to harm fellow muslims and other innocent human beings with our tongue first, then hand, then actions.

So often we have come across the “enlightened moderates” who waste no time in ridiculing people who come from a religious background or resemble someone who is religious. We call them names, we curse them, we openly reject what they have to say without first at least listening of what is being said.

It is okay for each of us to have varying views on a matter, it is further encouraged in Islam to have questions and ask questions of fellow mankind and do so for the desire to learn, and not in the manner of some non-muslims who ask questions simply for the sake of asking questions and do not desire to gain from it.

We have to stop criticizing others before we first criticize and measure our own actions. The “Mullahs” that we often term fundamentalists, or extremists, or even terrorist sympathizers are still muslims and represent muslims (whether we like it or not). Atleast they make an effort to pray five times a day, keep fasts, give charity, and whenever they speak, atleast they base their daleel on Quran and Sunnah, no matter how wrong it may sound, no matter how harsh it may sound, and no matter how illogical their stance. Yes they can be wrong, yes they can be misguided, yes they can be way off in their understanding of the religion as a whole, but do we atleast make an effort to maintain the 5 basic pillars of Islam ourselves? Are we really any better than them in terms of how much of the religion we follow, and live according to the guidelines of the faith?

Can we say the same about ourselves? Do we try to become better momins by our actions, or just pay lip service? Do we live according to the ruling of Quran and in the light of Sunnah of our beloved Prophet (s.a.w.) or just take pride in our names which resemble being muslim, even if our actions are symbolic of the period of jahaliya, when the opponents of Islam knew nothing about Islam? Do we really do Islam service when we ridicule fellow muslims, or add to the fire and allow others to laugh at us collectively? For we lack unity. We lack discipline. We lack integrity.

It is true that each of us has flaws, some more than others, but we should not be so quick to ridicule others. Each of us is up to our eyes with negative deeds that we need repentance for, badmouthing others will only add to that negative account. We need to work together as a people, as a nation of Islam, to correct each other. To explain the right from wrong to each other,
and learn to be kind to each other.

Much of what is seen today is a perfect reflection of the early days of Islam, when the ones that tried to follow Islam were ridiculed on how they dressed, how they spoke, how they behaved, and the message the carried. Today too Islam in its true form is a strange phenomenon, just as it was when Islam first started to be revived by Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.), and we have been warned for these times in ahadith that a time will indeed come when we will mimic Bani Israeel, and Islam will once again become Strange.

So often we are found defining and redefining Islam in order that it can better fit our lifestyles, rather than trying to change ourselves to fit IT. The religion is perfect as it is, humans are not perfect. Many of us are in error when we hope/wish/and enforce a change in the religion to make it compatible with current times. It needs no redefining, it needs to revision, it needs to tweaking to adjust to us. We need to change.

I preach nothing, i ask nothing of you, i just plead that let each of us critique ourselves before we leap to critique others. **I defend no one but myself, and indeed only my own actions will determine where i end up after this life. **

Let each of us work hard on ourselves, and become true muslims before defining for others what they are doing wrong.

Lets not just pay lip service in the name of Islam, but instead work to implement what Islam says in our lives individually, so that we can be in a position to correct our brothers and sisters and guide each other. A better you and me will result in a better society, which will surely reflect back and become a deed which serves to better the humanity as a whole.

Mullah or not, religious or not, none of us has the right or the elevated status to pass judgments on to others because none of us are free of sin.

A better muslim is the one who does not harm other muslims with his tongue. May Allah make us of the righteous, and make us of those whose actions serve Islam and humanity.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

What you are saying is correct in theory and yes Mullah Bashing is common but there are valid reasons to it and let me list a few

  1. Self righteousness - I can do no wrong. I am right. I can preach to you. I can call you a kafir or something worse/nastier. I can break signals and drive on the wrong side of the road since I am on the path of Allah. I will judge you etc etc.

  2. Loss of common sense - It is amazing how fast the common sense regresses as the beard progresses. You cannot argue with this kind. A new trend is to call "rationality" haram.

  3. Threat on life - Regardless of how the Mullah lives or behaves no liberal is out to kill him. However, the mullahs are quick to pass the "*wajib ul qatl" *fatwa on liberals. Liberals should have the right not only to their lifestyle but to their life as well

If the Mullahs could learn to coexist with humanity then I am sure moderates and liberals would also stop MULLAH BASHING

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

@Teggy

Very nice post, indeed. May Allah swt bless you for your thoughts.

@Righteous

You have shown other side of the image, or shall I say, you are a victim of corrupted anti-islamic main stream media.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

lol. Its how you look at it. I believe I am the victim of the Mullahs and not the media.

The media in general in this country has a rightwing bias. They present the case of Taliban/Fundamentalist Islam more vigorously and barring one or two presenters all of them have a pro fundo leaning.

I believe the militant Islam will not have made so many strides if media had not promoted their cause so wholeheartedly.

Btw I have understood the threat of the Mullah Islam to real Islam long before 9/11 and the subsequent Jihaadi adventures.

It is very easy to say lets not judge Muslims and cast aspersions when the Mullahs are on the receiving end, change the cast around and everybody pounces on the poor schmuck. Blaming all the troubles in the world on the sinful lifestyle.

If you want to be fair then call a spade a spade. Islam calls for one thing above every that is Adl or Justice. The kind practiced during the time of the Prophet (SAW) and forgotten right after him.

Stop assuming that if I support free will, education for women, right of women and minorties, then I am a liberal and non-religious person.

This is called stereotyping and is insulting to my intellect and yours

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

Teggy.

Seriously?

When people are doing precisely things completely OPPOSITE of Islam, which are not minor excursions from the faith, but in fact massive excursions that alter the lives, rights, and right to live of millions of people, then its seriously only HARAAM to continue supporting them.

Islam asks you to support that which is good, not support anyone who puts a turban on their head and calls themselves a muslim. This point is VERY IMPORTANT and discussed a number of times in the Quran.

So, lets start following the Quran shall we, and call a rat a rat, for once.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

the word "Mullah" and "Scholar" dont go together - unfortunately
Whereas being a Scholar is (should be) one the basic qualifying criteria for someone to be given any title - such as Mullah / Imam / Maulana etc etc.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

if someone is following the rituals it is between him and god, not between him and me.
what I am concerned with is how such people come across, interact with others and whether or not they present a balanced view of the faith. When these self declared banner waving book banging defenders of faith get on their soap box and start throwing terms like dar ul harb, wajib ul qatl, or start defending the actions of morons at large just because those morons claim to be following, representing and guarding the faith, thats when I have an issue. when they form idiotic groups like hizb ul tahriri, ghuraba and mohajiroun and spew lame crap and harrass students (mostly muslims) on uni campuses then I have an issue, when jamaati thugs want to run a campus by sheer ghunda force then I have an issue.

and teggy..the issue is both ways, even within your post you take a dig at 'enlightened moderates' ..lets see what other terms have been used, mod muslims, etc...well if we apply the same principles, then assorted mullah hazrat of various genres, their assorted mouth pieces and supporters, should also not bash others because at the end of the day, what they do is their business and between them and Allah.

we can close this at haqooq Allah and Haqooq al Ibaad. and I really dont see any moderates going after anyone forcing them to shave the beard or listen to music or wear jeans and tshirts. I also dont see any moderates taking over large geographical areas by force and demanding separation of religion and state.

And when one sees wrong actions, its not passing judgement, but noting what is wrong from one's perspective and understanding. I have no reason to critique civilized ulema or religious people just for the hell of it, its when moronic things and statements are seen when these people are criticized, when they try to take law into their own hands, when they spread fallacy for their own good, when they hoodwink their followers into doing drive bys on worhsip places of other sects, when they destroy public and private property in the name of religion, ripping billboards, attackign shops and breaking discs. Should that all be above criticism.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

The post is riddled with contradictions.

The claim is that it is wrong to criticise others, that we should not pass judgements on others, specifically the Mulla loge/religious segment. Yet here we see you labeling people who criticise Mullas as:

a) Enlightened moderates - Very few people ascribe the label to themselves, it is a pejorative associated with Pervez Musharraf.
b) Non-practicing Muslims who are only proud of their names
c) People who join bandwagons instead of basing their words on actual thinking

You have also juxtaposed those who criticize Mullas even terrorist supporters with Kuffars at the time of the Prophet. By implication, you have compared Mullas, even terrorist supporters, with the early adopters of Islam.

Sir let me make this much clear: I am not someone who belongs to any bandwagon. I have never bought into the enlightened moderation spiel of Musharraf, and I do not think being a Muslim is only about having a Muslim name. Having said all that, I will have very well thought out reasons for 'bashing' other Muslims, especially for terrorism. These reasons take into account relatively obvious factors such as media bias and advocacy of certain views by certain quarters, the fact that I can be in error and another has complete right to proffer a different reasoning.

Somehow the easy dodge of dont criticise brother Muslim, dont jump on bandwagons doesnt come up when the so-called 'enlightened moderates' and 'mod-Muslims' and 'Muslims in name only' are criticised. Please. You automatically assume that people are lacking basic intellectual faculties if you think that the only reason they could have for their criticism is that they're jumping on bandwagons or that they're brainwashed by the media and you arent.

Let us also be clear on another point. At no point should one consider that now I have the right to 'correct' my brothers and sisters, whereas before I was merely a sinner who needed to work on himself. This is a sure recipe for religious hubris, for religious elitism, for engineering people who feel they have dominion over thought just because they have dominion over their prayer group. We are all equally equipped with thought, and we all have our Islamic obligations. One does not preclude the other, nor do I regard someone's thoughts or actions as defacto acceptable or excusable just on the basis of which of their religious obligations they have been meeting.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

I believe that "enjoin God and forbid evil" is an article of faith
whether its "moderates " prohibiting "mullah" from killing innocents
or "mullahs" asking "moderate" women to dress modestly

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

[QUOTE]

So often we have come across the "enlightened moderates" who waste no time in ridiculing people who come from a religious background or resemble someone who is religious. We call them names, we curse them, we openly reject what they have to say without first at least listening of what is being said.

[/QUOTE]

very true infact that pissed me off a lot when i was a student as well esp calling people with beards "mullahs " derogatery way

but on the flip side the religious minded people are also condescending to people who otherwise may have valid arguments ( even with religious reasoning) just because they might not be praying 5 times a day

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

I agree with what you are saying. Perhaps i should have worded what i said better because i jotted it down as i felt it.

All i am saying is that we need to use a bit of a restraint and not ridicule "the guy with the beard" or the fellow with the clean shave. We are all muslims and each of us is accountable for his or her own affairs after this life.

Each of us needs to do more than labeling or going on the predefined labels, and actually work to correct the misconceptions while correcting those of us who may be wrong. One group is hellbent on enforcing their way of Islam because they see no other form as legitimate one, while the other group is hellbent on doing the complete opposite and also presenting a wrong image of Islam.

The reason of my initial post was not in any way to blame anyone in specific because i myself am guilty of some of the things you all have pointed out, as well as some i pointed out myself. The purpose of the post was to bring to light the issue and spread awareness, so we dont just tow a specific line of speech just because it happens to be in "fashion" these days.

The reason i cite moderate muslims is to support the idea of the thread, and the message i wanted to put forth. Yes there is the other angle as well, and "fundamentalists" should be shown a reflection of their behavior as well. Holier than thou is a mentality which is not characteristic of a good muslim and whoever in my opinion think that they are somehow better than the other, hence have the right to lecture are mistaken because there is no place for ego in this faith of Islam, as well as other faiths which teach humility.

We have a case of extremes, on both ends of the spectrum. Both are wrong. The idea of this talk is to bridge that gap and create an understanding where we can listen to each other without predefined notions which limit our acceptability of what the other has to say. Lets not stereotype; lets not paint every religious person with the same brush just because they hold views which we disagree to. And all the same applies to the extreme right crowd as well.

This is not limited to just this portal, i speak in a general sense and what we see all around us in the world today.

Do you not see the distinction, or at times feel like either you are moderate or you are not! Either you are religious or you are not! Why does it have to be that way? Both terms "moderate" and "fundamentalist" have been misrepresented and hijacked. A true muslim is both moderate and fundamentalist. Because we are moderate and kind, while adhering to the fundamentals of the faith. We can be good people without compromising either. The issue is with misrepresented titles which are used in a taunting way.

I hope i have offended no one, that was not my motif at all. My apologies.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

I agree, it is sad when people look down on others based on superficial assessments like you mention. One harkens to the Karachi mayor taking the PBS guy to sohrab goth and pointing at some bearded guy and saying look terrorist.

I dont believe that the discourse needs to be driven by groups though. The impulse to coalesce into group A and group B is very wrong.

However the implication was that criticism of Mullas was merely a fashionable thing, or joining the bandwagon or group dynamics between enlightened moderates and the religious. There can be criticism of Mullas stemming from bad reasons such as those that you mention. That does not mean criticism of Mullas/terrorist supporters is generally to be seen in that light.

I agree and I also agree with how DR summed it up quite adeptly in his characteristic style :k:

I say let the groups do what they will. People who surrender their identity to any group have surrendered a very essential part of what makes their opinion matter: an individuals thoughtful judgment and assessment.

At the same time, do you not think that we should not begin with the assumption that any given person has infact done so?

I agree.

I agree with you.. we can be either or both or neither.

I think the polarization is driven by diehards of the extremes themselves. It is also exacerbated by the tendency to classify any dissent or criticism as a trait of the other extreme. This is what I objected to your in your initial post.

One never assumes malice from you teggy! Apologies from me too if my first post was a little argumentative.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

No human have right to judge others, period. These mullahs are disgrace to most of the Muslims, and you want us to shut up our selves even from bashing them?

A recent example is swat, Sufi Muhammad is known as peace lover .. on the other hand he is threating government with bloodshed if his bullshyt version of Islam don't get implemented.

Then their is Dr. Israr Ahmed, who openly advocate bloody revolution in Pakistan, and openly predicting in Pakistan that "Pakistan will be vanished - if his version of Islam don't get implemented" .. what a idiot, indeed.

..and countless others, .. sorry brother your logic is flawless, these Mullahs just not be get bashed but also cursed.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

Its funny how muslims are so stupid to label everyone with a beard and turban as a mullah, and look him down as derogatory.

Thats like looking at a black guy and knowing divinely that he will steal from you, because of your 'holier than thou' attitude.

Grow up people, you guys are like kids. Teggy is right.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

most of the mullahs are very comfortable with consistently judging people but if somebody dares to judge anything about them then they are not shy, nor late to pull out tags such as "enemy of Islam" from their pockets.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

bro if you ask me then they get decent amount of respect in our society considering they do not do much constructive work and get fed by the people from whom they somehow wish for total, unconditional submission. Is there place for professional "mullahism" in Islam? Didnt all the Prophets use to work and make living?

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

The problem is, how are muslims today justifying the acts of a few uneducated people in some town in Pakistan, as representing every scholar who walks the earth?

I enjoy the company of a lot of "mullahs'' here in Toronto, Canada, and they mashAllah have amazing lives. They're always busy doing some sort of project. Either organizing classes, while others attending universities, others organizing youth groups, sporting events, as well as some Ullema who are Doctors and are actually working alongside chemists to develop ways to exit out of smoking.

There are so many other 'mullah's who are working day and night to expand this religion, as well as give back to the community they live in.

While no doubt there are those lazy ones, who spend their whole day in the masjid, as well as live in masjids (in pakistan), there are numerous others who have contributed significantly to society.

They spend years abroad to learn the deen, so they can come back and give guidance to others. Its not entirely their fault if they lack secular knowledge. THats where YOU and I come in. We should work hand in hand to promote the union of secular and religious knowledge.

Scholars of traditional texts, including Imam Ghazali r/a were masters in many sciences. Scholars of today (western) cannot begin to categorize him as master of one of the sciences, because they cannot figure out to what he contributed the most.

These days, its harder, so you either go full religious, or full secular. The solution today would be to bring these together, encourage a 'radical reform' as promoted by Tariq Ramadan.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

so crescent, no one is 'mulla' bashing, people are bashing militants, extremists, terrorists, facists who use the shroud of religion to fool people. when they are being bashed it does not mean sensible scholars are being

we cant use jihadists, islamists, cuz they are western manufacturered terms. why dont u just give us a term we can use for them? religious nutjobs? religious fanatics, pseudo religious militants, any of these strike a chord? lets also get a term for the armchair supporters as well as apologists, whether they are out in the open or in the closet.

Thank You.

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

Misguided individuals?

But yea that's not too catchy, why not look for titles that attract and sound "good" when said. :)

Re: Mullah Bashing a quality of good muslim?

teggy you often find catchy labels for terrorist Muslims who conduct their business without the pretense of religion, for instance MQM. there is no reason not to do the same for jackasses who invoke religion instead of ethnicity. warna to in the mid-90s, at the peak of their violence, MQM branded Altaf as a Pir too.