Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
And to brother healthy mind, my humble request is ,
did i use in **any **my post , right from beginning the word"Kafir" for shias ......???
no , right from first post upto this , i never offered such a fatwa....
not only me **, no member **used this word for shias and you are blamming to sunnis for this..brother , this is not fair !!!
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
but i will, inshallah, catch them in the same hadees .......
the companions only said this the romans *are great in no. and very experienced ... so make a **experienced general **but prophet(pbuh) turned down thier request ... so it was just a request or advice for the **betterment of muslims *... what **bad about that.....
secondly , the person who wanted the leadership in ghazva mauta **inspite of **zaid bin harsa (ra) **and asked for leadership ... do you know who was he ????? he was **jaffar bin abi talib(ra) **but prophet(pbuh) **straight fowrdly turned down his request and made him the deputy of zaid(ra) !!!!!! now tell me about that , i will not say a single word against the great companion , jaffar(ra) but want from you !!!!!!
Read the hadees again , i give it :
'If you find fault in his leadership, you [also] sought to find fault in the leadership of his father before him. *By Allah, he was created for leadership and was the most beloved of men to me; and now he (Usama) is the most beloved of people to me after him'" *(al-Bukhari, vol. 5, p. 84).
now tell me o shias , this is not indicating prophet(pbuh) love for non-ahle-bait !!!!!!!!!!
or you will say it is fabricated... if this is ,.. why you give it for your reference !!!!!
Tum logo nai aik ayat-e-tatheer(purity ayat) ko pakkar kar deen ka poora charkha ahle-bait kai gird ghumma diya hai .(maulana maudoodi)
Read with your eyes open that prophet(pbuh) saying zaid(ra) was the most beloved man to me and his son usama(ra) also !!!!!
were zaid(ra) and usama(ra) were from banu hashims ???? my sweet shias ????
One more interesting thing,
this dearest man, usama(ra) was among some of the sahabas of prophet(pbuh) who did not bait ali(ra) as murderes were in ali(ra) favour !!!!!
DETAIL FOR HYPOCRATES: (which was among the companions_
Muawiyah and Abusing Imam Ali (AS)
=====================================
What the Prophet said about those who
The Messenger of Allah said:
"Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of
hypocrasy."
^^^^^^^^^
Sunni references:
- Sahih Muslim, v1, p48;
- Sahih Tirmidhi, v5, p643;
- Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p142;
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v1, pp 84,95,128
- Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 1, p202
- Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v4, p185
- Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v14, p462
This tradition of Prophet was popular to the extent that some of the
companions used to say:
** "We recognized the hypocrites by their hatred of Ali."
**
Sunni references:
- Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p639, Tradition #1086
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p47
- al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v3, p242
- Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p91
Also Muslim in his Sahih narrated on the authority of Zirr that:
** Ali (RA) said: By him who split up the seed and created something
living, the Apostle (may peace and blessing be upon him) gave me a
promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a
hypocrite would nurse grudge against me.**
Abu Huraira narrated:
**The Prophet (PBUH&HF)** looked toward Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husain, and
Fatimah, and said: "I am in the state of war with those who will fight
you, and in the state of peace with those who are peaceful to you."
Sunni references:
(1) Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p699
(2) Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p52
(3) Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p767, Tradition #1350
(4) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p149
(5) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p169
(6) al-Kabir, by Tabarani, v3, p30, also in al-Awsat
(7) Jamius Saghir, by al-Ibani, v2, p17
(8) Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v7, p137
(9) Sawai'q al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p221
(10) Talkhis, by al-Dhahabi, v3, p149
(11) Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p25
(12) Mishkat al-Masabih, by al-Nawawi, English Version, Tdadition #6145
(13) Others such as Ibn Habban, etc.
It is the well-known fact in the history that Muawiyah fought Imam Ali
(AS). And based on the above tradition of the Prophet(PBUH&HF) the
Prophet has declared war on Muawiyah. How can we still love a person whom
the Prophet has declared war on him?
The Messenger of Allah said:
"**Whoever hurts Ali, has hurt me"
**
Sunni references:
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, p483
- Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, p580, Tradition #981
- Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p129
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p263
- Ibn Habban, Ibn Abd al-Barr, etc.
The Messenger of Allah said:
** "Whoever reviles/curses Ali, has reviled/cursed me"**
Sunni reference:
- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p121, who mentioned this tradition is
Authentic.
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v6, p323
- Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, p594, Tradition #1011
- Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p130
- Mishkat al-Masabih, English version, Tradition #6092
- Tarikh al-Khulafa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p173
- and many others such as Tabarani, Abu Ya'la, etc.
===============================================
Muawiyah not only fought Imam Ali, he cursed Imam Ali as well. Furthermore,
he did force/make everybody to curse Ali (AS). To prove it, we begin with
Sahih Muslim:
Narrated Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas:
Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, give order to Sa'd, and told him:
"What prevents you that you are refraining from cursing Abu Turab
(nickname of Ali)?" Sa'd replied: "Don't you remember that the Prophet
said three things about (the virtue of) Ali? So I will never curse
Ali."
Sunni reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of
Virtues of Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Tradition #32.
For the English version of Sahih Muslim, see Chapter CMXCVI, p1284,
Tradition #5916
/ . | || : . | | . | : | |
()_e,o |_o ||_o_9 |]_e_w . |,9_w _,| . _, 4, q |e_o _o |
(| () : (_S. (). : / /
| ^ | | ^ .. / . | | | || : . | : || | | : |
|, ||, ., _) > |_o |_o | ||_o_9 .,| _,|| |,| .,_w, . |
/ (| . / . . ()
| | . | || | | || :
4_,_w | . _|_9 4_|_|| | q_w 4_| . _8_||_o
. (_) (_| / / (_)
The above tradition, by the way, indicates that Muawiyah was surprised why
Sa'd does not follow his order of cursing Ali, like others do. This shows
that cursing Ali was a habit (Sunnah) for people at that time. Who made
this Sunnah? Was it Ali, or those who fought him? Now, who fought against
Ali? Wasn't he Muawiyah (the beloved companion of Wahhabis)? So this
implies that Muawiyah did innovate that habit (cursing Ali as Sunnah).
Below is more references in Sahih Muslim about Sunnah cursing Imam Ali
(AS), to prove that people were urged/forced to curse Ali in public,
otherwise they would face a costly sentence. It is narrated on the
authority of Abu Hazim that:
The Governor of Medina who was one of the members of the house of
Marwan called Sahl Ibn Sa'd, and ordered him to curse Ali. But Sahl
refused to do so. The governor said: "If you don't want to curse Ali,
just say God curse Abu Turab (the nickname of Ali)." Sahl said: "Ali
did not like any name for himself better than Abu Turab, and Ali used
to become very happy when somebody would call him Abu Turab."
Sunni reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of
Virtues of Ali, Arabic version, v4, p1874, Tradition #38.
Here is the Arabic text of the above tradition given by Sahih Muslim:
| | T | : . || | | : |
. | q _o | | . _o |_7 4_,_, ]_o_|| _|_c |_o_e_,_w |
(_) / / (_| (_) (_|. / : (_S (_|
| | : ^ | | . | | .
|_,_|_c o_,_w_, . | o _o |_9 ]_e_w . _, |_8_w |_c ]_9
: ( : (_) / (_). (_|
| || | | : . .. | . | | | | || : . | | .
4_||| . _e| |o_9 .,,,| > | |_o | 4| ||o_9 |_8_w _,|_9
() (| : . (| (_| (_S.
|| | | | | /| | || : . | : ||| |
4_,|| .,_7| o_w | _|_e, . |)|_o |_8_w ||_o_9 .,| _,|||,|
: . ( (_S . () (| (| . / .
| | . | . | | / | | : || |
|8, c > | > | _7 _9,| . |) . | q ._,| _,|| ,| . _o
. (_S ( / : () () / . / (S. ()
Cursing Imam Ali (AS) was an order from the beginning of Muawiyah's reign
for 65 years. He was Umar Ibn Abdil Aziz (may Allah be easy with him) who
canceled this order after more than half a century. Some historians even
believe that the Umayyah descendants themselves killed (poisoned) Umar Ibn
Abdil Aziz, because he changed their Sunnah, one of which was cursing Ali.
(See the Sunni book entitled "History of the Saracens," by Amir Ali,
Chapter X, pp 126-127).
One of the ugliest innovations that started during the reign of Muawiyah
was that Muawiyah himself, and through his order to his Governors, they
used to insult Imam Ali (AS) during the Sermons in the Mosques. This was
even done on the pulpit of the mosque of the Prophet in Medina in front of
the grave of the Prophet Muhammad (May Allah bless him and his Progeny),
so that even the dearest Companions of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), and Imam Ali
(AS), his family and his near relatives used to hear these swears with
their ears.
Sunni references :
- History of al-Tabari, v4, p188
- History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p234; v4, p154
- al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, v8, p259; v9, p80
YOU THINK HE WAS A COMPANION
He is clean hypocrate according to ur own these hadith's
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
another place the same Iqbal says....
**
tarapnay pharaknay ki taufeeq dai
dil-e-murtaza-o-soza-i-siddique dai **
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
HERE ALLAH SHOWS THE GREAT ONES IN THIS VERSE:
Eid al-Mubahila
The 24th of Dhul-Hijja marks the anniversary of the day when the Prophet of Islam invited the Christians of Najran to imprecation each other in the year 10 A.H. The term mubahila in Arabic refers to the prayer of the faithful in order to rid themselves of the company of liars. The event was the result of a delegation lead by Abdul Masihm and 60 Christian followers addressing Muhammad regarding the nature of the Prophet Jesus. Then, according to Qur’an prophet invited them to imprecation:
"If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge Hath come to thee, say: "Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!**3:61](http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html)"**
According to , the tradition is as follows:
"When the following verse was revealed : Let us summon our children and your children. Allah’s messenger ( pbuh&f ) called Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain and said : O Allah , these are my family …" [Sahih Muslim, v 4 p 1285 ( English Edition)]
Abdullah Ibne Umar quotes the Holy Prophet to have commented:
“Had there been any soul on the whole earth better than Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain, God would have commanded me to take them along with me to ‘Mubahala’. But as they were superior in dignity and respect to all human beings, God confined His Choice on them only for participation in ‘Mubahala’”. (Tasfeer-e-Baizavi)
According to all sunnie and shia traditions, the messenger of God [LET US…]held the hand of his grandson Hassan, and picked up Hosain in his arms [OUR SONS AND …] was followed by Fatima سلام الله عليها ] [OUR WOMEN AND …] followed by Ali son of Abu Taalib عليه الصّلاة والسّلام ] {OUR SELVES AND …} and then curse the liars. It was a certificate from God Almighty, that these individuals have never lied in the past, nor would they lie in the future or rest of their lives. It was a certificate from Almighty, that these people can represent Mohammed صلاواة الله عليه و آله ] the Messenger of God Almighty. There is no honour or designation greater than being self of Mohammed صلاواة الله عليه و آله ] the messenger of God Almighty.
It was a piece of guidance for the Muslims to learn Islam from these four people and their designees and not from anyone else. It is stressed in the Quraan at another occasion as well. See chapter “Bara’at” 9:1..to ..6.
Go and check history what happened with these four personality???
Note: I dont understand I never give any reference my Shia books, all references is coming from UR BOOKS, why you keep denying it. If all of the reference are worng, then my dear brother ur sect have the base of these books, please seek for an open knowledge to find truth, which is in Holy Quran
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Thanks god brother healthymind had jumped from 3 caliphs and other companions to muavia(ra) !!!!!!
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Salam Faisal bhai ,
i am with you 100 % 
but sometimes the scale rises in action and reaction period… but again we bring it down as
is tara to hota hai phir istara kai kamo mai 
well , we will take care in the future , inshallah
wasalam.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
no one is denying the imp. of ahle-bait at mubahila...
but allah says he wanted to pure them...not said already pured you...you misinterprete it.....
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
It was a piece of guidance for the Muslims to learn Islam from these four people and their designees and not from anyone else. It is stressed in the Quraan at another occasion as well. See chapter "Bara'at" 9:1..to ..6.
Go and check history what happened with these four
personality??????????????????????????????????????
not also *from **those people **which were with prophet(pbuh) when even these 4 people not came into this world *, my honey !!!!!
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
but allah says he wanted to pure them...not said already pured you...you misinterprete it.....
So Allah only 'wanted' to pure them? So should it be construed that Allah did not make them pure?
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
“We used to discuss the best *of the people during the time of the Prophet (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) and we saw the best as **Abu Bakr *(radiallahu anhu), **then Umar, then Uthman ibn Affaan *(radiallahu anhu)” *[Saheeh Al-Bukharee]
How convenient!! So the ummah choose the Caliphs according to what they discussed during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet (s)?
Pehlay hz Abu bakr phir Umar phir Usman....lol:D well done umayyads
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
and i never got the answer to my question! Do we obey the Holy Prophet (s) conditionally or unconditionally?
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
I want to ask do we love the Holy Prophet are these the questions, pata nahi pehle to apne amal theek karo.
Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman, Ali are they going to grant us paradise, first Amal karo Quran par aur uske baad ladna. Dono taraf se copy past. La hawl wala Kuwat illa billaah.
No concrete, evidence to better our deeds but to win a war on the forum. Anyways Prophet also cant grant us paradise unless Allaah wills, so tell me how many of you note down in a book in front of a witness when any transaction is taken between you and i empahsize first on a muslim and then non-muslim.
Anyways Allaah knows the best. Carry on and enjoy and win the war.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
yeh thx...no wud somebody answer tht?
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
[QUOTE]
Cursing Imam Ali (AS) was an order from the beginning of Muawiyah's reign
for 65 years. He was Umar Ibn Abdil Aziz (may Allah be easy with him) who
canceled this order after more than half a century. Some historians even
believe that the Umayyah descendants themselves killed (poisoned) Umar Ibn
Abdil Aziz, because he changed their Sunnah, one of which was cursing Ali.
(See the Sunni book entitled "History of the Saracens," by Amir Ali,
Chapter X, pp 126-127).
One of the ugliest innovations that started during the reign of Muawiyah
was that Muawiyah himself, and through his order to his Governors, they
used to insult Imam Ali (AS) during the Sermons in the Mosques. This was
even done on the pulpit of the mosque of the Prophet in Medina in front of
the grave of the Prophet Muhammad (May Allah bless him and his Progeny),
so that even the dearest Companions of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), and Imam Ali
(AS), his family and his near relatives used to hear these swears with
their ears.
Sunni references :
- History of al-Tabari, v4, p188
- History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p234; v4, p154
- al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, v8, p259; v9, p80
YOU THINK HE WAS A COMPANION
He is clean hypocrate according to ur own these hadith's
[/QUOTE]
With regard to attributing this "Makrooh Bid'a" to Hazrat Muaawiyah R.A
Tabari Vol 4 Pg. 188 ; Ibn Atheer Vol. 3 Pg 234, Vol 4 Pg 154, Al Bidaya Vol. 9 Pg. 80
If someone is to look at these references, there is not a single quote which talks about Hazrat Muaawiyah R.A himself doing the action of cursing Hazrat Ali R.A. The reference have been checked not only in the particular place but also a couple of pages before and after. In the research there was nothing found to the above affect. What is found though is how much Hazrat Muaawiya R.A respected Hazrat Ali R.A even after the Ikhtalafaat.
{See Al Bidaya Wan Nihaya Vol 8. Pg 130
Talks about his reaction to the death of Hazrat Ali R.A
At-Tabari Vol. 4 Pg 248 & Ibn Atheer Vol 4 Pg 5
Hazrat Muaawiya R.A Reprimends Hazrat Basar bin Irtaa R.A for speaking ill of Hazrat Ali R.A *
Al-Kamil Ibn Atheer Vol 4 Pg 2
*Hazrat Muaawiyah R.A claims in his last sermon that All the Khalifa before him (including Hazrat Ali R.A) were better than him...}
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
[QUOTE]
Narrated Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas:
Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, give order to Sa'd, and told him:
"What prevents you that you are refraining from cursing Abu Turab
(nickname of Ali)?" Sa'd replied: "Don't you remember that the Prophet
said three things about (the virtue of) Ali? So I will never curse
Ali."
[/QUOTE]
Muawiya asked, "What prevents you from cursing Abu Turab?" This is a question, so how do these people make a question = cursing?
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Again very excellent post by khanbabax… i fully agre with that …muavia(ra) never himself did this… if some other did due to old times **tribal jealousy **between ummayyads and banu hashims… !!! **why to blame muavia(ra) **???
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Whatever Shias quote are either weak/fabricated hadees or they misquote, change the words here and there and change the whole meaning.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Actually the shias are in a old habiit of twistingg quranic verses , ahadees and historical references… not a new thing !!!
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
I 100%agree with you…
for thier point to prove , they even give the reference of the ahadees books like **Bahqi , Mustadrak **etc which are relatively **low **purity level…and if we give in response the reference of **bukhari and muslim **etc… they start raising the slogans of “Fabrication” !!!What a justice !!!
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
In religious affairs …it is farz …no other choice but in wordly affairs … you can differ with him and give your advice as sahabas did in wars , medication , signing truce etc …