Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
we already know that you did not read all … because very few people have a courage and guts to face the bitterness and reality of the history … because history and reality bites… Farwa jee !!!
Oh yea Mam , you are 100 % right… but really i am confused that either Iran or a Syria has such a great " Investment" but i think personally that persia , being the major oil - producing country can do such a huge "Investments" of 30 / day , on average just for your attention below , farwa jee !!!
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Furthermore, i am very VERY dubious of these neo-conservative islamists out there, who know suddenly everything about Islam and thier only purpose is to create Fitna b/t Muslims! i hope that the majority on this forum will realize that the need to stay united as Muslims, is far greater then any reason to try and make shia/ sunni see the "light"! I don't fall prey to such stuff, also in part b/c its odd for me how suddenly these ppl have sooooo much knowledge about Islam.
Lol ... I have or any other member ever claimed that we have a very big **knowledge... **another lol ...these things , these ahadees about condemning the shouting , mourning , tearing clothes and all such things are so general and primary that even a guy of 10 can tell you all this... !!!! and these things , you claim, so much knowledge are the shaheeh ahadees of prophet(pbuh) and the background of this conflict is flooded with the history books of both sides rather western also , if you have ever a chance to open such a book !!!!! Ok
Yes , we also like unity .. but if someone says keep on doing the things that are clearly forbidden in ahadees and remain quiet... No Sir , no, at any cost ... nobody is above quran and hadees ... if anythig contradicts quran and shaheeh ahadees , we throw it against the wall no matter who said this ... this is not what i am saying ... this is the unanimous decision of the 4 greatest fuqahs of all times ... hanbal, malik , abu haneefa and shafi .... understand !!!!!!
**apnay bhi khafa mugh sai hain baiganai bhi na khoosh**
** mai zahra-i-halahal ko kabhi kha na saka qund**
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
[quote=farwah.raza]
our histories and authorities are different, so u cant preach your faith to the other! its like using hte Koran to talk tell a christain thier faith is wrong...the problem with that, the christian doesnt believe the Koran to have any authority!![/qoute]
So do you mean that in 1400 years** no** christian ever converted to islam because they do not consider quran the shaeeh ... LOL .... Sis **.... it would be more **preferable if you just touched the history a bit before posting on the thread , i think !!!!!!!
When sun shines in the day , everthing is visible and all creatures come out to work etc but the bat **only comes out in night because it **cannot see in the sunshine.... so it means one start blamming the sun andits sunlight ......so, in a similar way if someone who does not accept the truth of quran and ahadees ... then its never ever means there is "some prolem " in quran and ahadees (naouzubillah) ... *there is problem in themselves ...... *
By , the way , just tune to for a day or two to Peace Tv and listen few lectures of dr.zakir naik about christianity so that you would come forward to the "Authenticity" of bible for which , according to your view , christians are not leaving thier bible and coming to quran ... OK
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
If telling the true teachings of quran and shaheeh ahadees of prophet(pbuh) to the people is** Fitna** , then ,Wallah , *i will keep on creating fitna ... *
Just recognize that to destroy Islam money was invested into creating shia sunni divisions that can be traced to the 70's. Islam was a threat after the Irani revolution. Imagine a proper muslim revolution all over the oil rich mid-east, and you will realize why a democracy, or an Islamic state is a threat. Thus money was invested to create shia sunni divisions. So alot of these little preacher, who teach in backalley fundi schools were actually given crap loads of moeny to start schools all over that propagated shia sunni violence.
Are you kidding me !!! you think that only you know the history and no one else !!!! i am not a scholar **of history but i or all oher respectable readers and writers of this thread are blind of history** at all......
for 1400 **years of division of sunni and shias , you bring it to the **70,s LOL:D
For that is the reason i have said that plz. have some in-sight into the history before posting .....
now you say "islamic" revolution in iran ... Sis , really i am not jocking **, but plz. tell me who has told you that the **revolution was islamic !!!!!!! it was just a reaction of dictatorship and imperialism of muhammad shah pehelvi , the shah-e-iran and in the last phase of the struggle , the mullahs , fuqhas , ayatullahs , hijatullahs hijacked this struggle and named it islamic revolution... !!! what a joke .... many leftists and rightists , many officials **having personal **grudge with the shah joined in this religious movement to earn their own benifits ...... but in the last , the struggle was given the label ofislam as people are ready to come out most in the** name of islam** .... virtual blackmailing **... i say it...... just we see in the **1977 nizam-e-mustafa movement in pakistan against bhutto **... allhaving **political **conflict with bhutto came out shouting **Islam Islam ... :D
Furthermore , no money was invested for shia sunni division... infact khoemeini brutal attitudes towards its neighbours was the main **reason of this **uprest of middle-east... First , he took a panga with americans while kidnapping thier foriegn office , while in civilized world , no body can say a single word to foriegn officials , no matter what the degree of enemity !!!!!!!
right after that, there was so** "enthusiaism*" in the shias at that time, so in thier dream of **controlling* the city of makkah and madina , irani shias hajis killed about 300 persons in kaaba , for 3days , no tawaf was done , i think first time in the history....
Aafter that , to capture the religious places of iraq , like karbala , najaf and kufa , keep on insisting the shias of iraq to rise again Saddam Hussain and start exporting his revolution into iraq ...so saddam **responded **this and we all know that what happened......
Nor that was all, he start sending the poisonous literature into pakistan ... about** sahabas** and wifes of prophet(pbuh) ... then as a reaction shippa-e-sahaba was formed and all killings and secterian violence happened to this day is a gift of that islamic revolution and rahbar .... you will be ashtonished to know that , the condition was so out of control , the counsalate of iran in lahore , Aqqai sadiq gangi , the man behind** importing** this literature was killed by a joint collabration of extremists and the *world 's top intelligence agency , ISI. of pakistan ..... *
believe me , this islamic revolution ruined the things which were still left in the ummah !!!!!!!
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
you havn't told your view of Imam
and Caliphate belongs to Imams only , why ? would you like to explain
[quote]
Are you alluding to Syeds? Syeds are descendants of bibi Fatima s.a.
[/quote]
so do you believe syed are superior to any other muslim do you?
does being in a family of bibi Fatima RA is authenticity of ones piousness
does Hazoor PBUH have said that any where ?
[quote]
Syeds ARE from the family of the Prophet, if thats what you are talking about. What importance are you talking about?
[/quote]
try to read my words above again
does being in family tree of some one make any one pious
[quote]
She 'fought' the Caliph of her time. Allah is the best judge. I respect her the way hz Ali a.s used to.
[/quote]
okey mashallah nice to see
do you pray for her forgiveness or not.
[quote]
That's the problem. She being the respected wife of the Prophet waged a wat against hz Ali a.s. , the elected Caliph. She shouldn't have done that. A great blunder.
[/quote]
She RA shouldn't have done that.
i agree , but when she RA had felt her mistake , she RA felt sorry for her
still i have seen none from shia to pray for her forgiveness
and you havn't replied to my answer , that would you and your family member havn't done any mistake in their life.
[quote]
Tazeehay, matam are not 'part' of Islam and hence cannot be termed as "innovation".
Nopes. Beating yourself for the Prophet (s) is not unprecedented in Islamic history.
[/quote]
but you know shia do it in the name of religion , don't they
i have not seen any shia saying that i am doing is not in my religion but still i will do it
when ever i have talked they say it is according to our religion
some more questions to you for my knowledge , i hope you will answer
why shadat of Imam Hussain RA considered to be more big then shadat of Hazrat ALi RA?
i have never seen so much mattam , tazeeh, etc etc at the barsi of Hazrat Ali RA but we do see it on barsi Of Imam Hussain RA
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Jaan Leva is constantly coming up with the 'Will of Allah' argument. Well chicanery doesnt help. As I have said nothing happens 'without' the Will of Allah. Every 'evil' such as murder, rape, robbery and every 'good' happens with the power vested in us, through the Will of Allah.
If your point is that Allah was somehow 'satisfied' with the Caliphate of the first three then the answer is No.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
You just have to look at history. The concepts of divide and conquer are quite simple. you help the majority oppress the minority. Then you use the minority, support them to overthrow and keep in check the majority. It happened in India, its happening now all over with Muslims.
True... but why you are telling these things to us... more need to tell these things to** those** who have been practising it for 1400 years and *still they are on thier way..... *
Today you are arguing Shia sunni. Even if there were no shia's you'd be arguing about some other split in Islam, perhaps the different divisions in Sunnism itself. The kurds are being funded as we speak to create fitna in Iran.
Its everywhere!!! anything that a threat to corporate powers that be, is destroyed.
I am not arguin shia sunni ... i am just arguing about the sayings of prophet(pbuh) are more important to us than any other thing........ By the way , if Kurds are being funded to create fitna in Iran , are they also been funded to create fitna in turkey( a pure sunni country) ........ LOL
[qoute=farwa]
So beware!!! recongnize that there are more shia v. sunni websites then ever before. understand why we are being divided, before you indulge in this friction.
[/quote]
Mam , we have been divided , the moment , the first drop of blood flowed on the shirt of usman(ra) and tricled down to the ayat of quran( Verily , for you allah is enough) ... now what division are you saying about ... this is not extremism ... this is the hadees of prophet(pbuh) that i prayed for the unity of my ummah but allah not accepted this pray..
Is your own understanding of your own faith good enough? have you acquired all the knowledge you need to be a good Muslim? are your own practices in conformity to your faith!?!! is you yourself are not, or are not able to be a good Muslims, then dont you think this indiscretions into shia sunni debates should be secondry? should not your primary goal be to be a good Muslim!! there are plenty of followers believers who believe as you do, but dont practice thier faith well....why not help them first. begin with your family....then spread out to strangers! God will questions you for your actions and your childrens and yor family memebrs, beyond that your duty to others should be secondry!
Preach only after you have mastered the faith in knowlede and in practice yourself!
Yes , i accept , i am not a good muslim ....but
There is a hadees of prohet , i think , from abu huraira(ra), that he asked the prophet(pbuh) that can i preach a good thing to others lest i have not done it to myself completely... prophet(pbuh) replied ... yes , why not ... may be allah
mercyon you for this act..." i do not know the exact wordings but it seems like that...
furthermore , it is quran that (** naikio ka hukam do aur buraio sai roko*) means spreadthe good deeds and abstain the people from bad deeds and thats what i am doing.....it isnot specifically written in quran that this order is only for yourself and your family memebers **ONLY*
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
In 1987, SHIAs (Iranis) attacked the Kaaba in Makkah. They went there to conquer Kaaba and to fall it. But by the grace of ALLAH and Duuas of all Muslim Hujjaj Karam (Hajis), the Saudi Arabian Security Forces kicked them away. About 405 poeple were killed on the spot out of them 50 were Hujjaj came from all over the world. There was a huge crowd of the SHIAs (Iranis). The LIVE pictures were taken at the spot. See what the SHIAs did at the time of Hajj. See the LIVE Movie provided by the Saudi Government.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
If your point is that Allah was somehow 'satisfied' with the Caliphate of the first three then the answer is No.
So, it can also be true that 3rd Caliph was Hz Ali and it was ALLAH will? Evil or not evil is not the point.
My "Allah's WILL" argument comes later, the argument and logic before that is of INFANCY of Islam... consider that option/argument. Apply that to your self in case of your child and then apply that to early Islam era and what would have been best for Islam in order for it to take root not just in Saudi arabian region but all over the world. Islam spread from INDIA to SPAIN during the time of first three caliphs, not Hz Ali.
IF ALLAH was not satisfied with first thre caliphs, Islam would have never spread as far as it did. The fact that Islam spread so far so fast is the one of the most important testimonies against shia lies and slander of those who brought Islam outside of arabia and introduced it to the greater world community.
The idea that it was ALLAH's WILL should be ENOUGH for Muslims and it should give us enough to MOVE FORWARD and not make 1400 year old events as basis of DISRESPECT for those who are 1.) dead, 2.) were leaders of Islam that 90% of Muslims know today,** 3.)** had some type of personal relations with the Prophet, 4.) fought with the Prophet and gave their money, land and made other contributions when the Prophet requested, 5.)were involved with spreading Islam at very early stages, 6.) endured pain and suffering at the hands of the Makkans, 7.) When Allah and his prophet did not have any problem with befriending them, making *relations *with them, fighting along side with them in wars, then who are you? On what basis do you disrespect Sahaba, especially the first three caliphs? What is their crime?
Did Allah warn the Prophet of hyporcites and munafiks among Muslims of that time? YES OR NO?
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Caliph is general term which means 'successor'. Imams are 'guides' appointed from Allah and Allah only. Hense only they have the exclusive right for the Caliphate.
[quote]
so do you believe syed are superior to any other muslim do you?
does being in a family of bibi Fatima RA is authenticity of ones piousness
does Hazoor PBUH have said that any where ?
[/quote]
Absolutely not. Only our actions determine our superiority. But yes there are some 'rights' of the Syeds. For example a non-Syeds sadaqa is haram on Syed.
[quote]
okey mashallah nice to see
do you pray for her forgiveness or not.
[/quote]
May Allah forgive everybody.
[quote]
and you havn't replied to my answer , that would you and your family member havn't done any mistake in their life.
[/quote]
Which sin is greater? Fighting a companion and the Caliph of your time or the sins we commit on daily basis?
[quote]
but you know shia do it in the name of religion , don't they
[/quote]
The commemoration of Imam Hussain a.s. is important for us as he is our third Imam. He is our religion and his a.s. remembrance is implicity related to the religion. But strictly speaking the majalis are not part of 'Islam' itself. It could be termed as an 'innovation' if it is made part of the 'Shariah'.
[quote]
1. why shadat of Imam Hussain RA considered to be more big then shadat of Hazrat ALi RA?
[/quote]
We hold all martyrs dear. But the circumstances of the Shahadat of Imam Hussain's a.s. are different than that of hz Ali's a.s.
[quote]
i have never seen so much mattam , tazeeh, etc etc at the barsi of Hazrat Ali RA but we do see it on barsi Of Imam Hussain RA
[/quote]
We have majalis for hz Ali's a.s. shahadat but yes there is a difference between how we commemorate the two shahadats.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Absolutely not. Only our actions determine our superiority. But yes there are some 'rights' of the Syeds. For example a non-Syeds sadaqa is haram on Syed.
so brother that is what we are saying why a sahabi not from banu hashim in virtues and merits cannot be superior to a sayyid
May Allah forgive everybody.
thanks for your greatness....i hope all my other shias brothers and sisters also accept this ameen ...
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
So, they are same as PROPHETS? How does ALLAH *APPOINT *Imams? Does Allah send wahi to shia Imams? Are shia Imams same status as the Prophets?
[QUOTE]
Which sin is greater? Fighting a companion and the Caliph of your time or the sins we commit on daily basis?
[/QUOTE]
Which sin is greater? Cursing and disrespecting friends / father-in-laws / son-in-law / *wives *of the Prophet or sins that you commit on daily basis?
[QUOTE]
The commemoration of Imam Hussain a.s. is important for us as he is our third Imam. He is our religion and his a.s. remembrance is implicity related to the religion. But strictly speaking the majalis are not part of 'Islam' itself. It could be termed as an 'innovation' if it is made part of the 'Shariah'.
[/QUOTE]
Where in Quran does it say that "family hierarchy/kingship" shall be used when picking a leader?
If FAMILY RULE idea hold some water, why did most of the Prophet's family got killed?
According to you:
Family rule, leader from family of the prophet a MUST...
So, how did Islam survive this far, spread so far WITHOUT any leader from the family of the Prophet? If it was Allah's will that family of the Prophet shall lead Muslims then where is it? They got killed... yeah. So, doesn't that tell us something? Family rule is not important, one doesn't have to be member of Prophet's BLOODline in order to be leader of Muslims... what counts is your status with GOD and how is your character and standing when it comes to affairs with ALLAH.
