Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

khanbabax · February 9, 2007, 5:52pm

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

Hussain’s cousin Muslim Ibn Aqil r.h was sold out to Yezid’s men by the Shia. Muslim Ibn Aqil sent a message to Hussain him about the Shia of Kufa:
“Do not be deceived by people of Kufa. They are those same Shia of your father from whom he so dearly wished to part, by death or by being killed. The Kuffans have lied to me and have lied to you, and a liar has no sense.”

khanbabax · February 9, 2007, 5:53pm

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 4

Hazrat Ali r.a says about his Shia:

“I always apprehended from you consequences of treachery and I had seen you through in the garb of the decietful.”

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/4.htm

Y2K_Zaid · February 9, 2007, 6:37pm

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

Chief read carefully where Imam Ali talking about shia here, in this sermon he was talking to general public you didn’t read the last lines and again copy/paste blindly

Amir al-mu’minin also means that he too had the same fear viz. that the people should not be caught in the trap of these (Talhah, az-Zubayr, etc.) and fail into misguidance by getting astray from the true faith. Otherwise, he himself never feared for his own life.

Read the extract above for your convinience I copy past for you. Imam Ali discussing here about Talha and Zubair and if you look shia history (which you don’t read for sure) you will find that We Shian e Ali ibn abi talib never got trapped into Talha and Zubair because only Alley Muhammad we don’t follow anyone in this world.

Y2K_Zaid · February 9, 2007, 6:47pm

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

When in Ghadeer Rasool said already

"O Allah! You also may witness." Then he said: 'O my people! Allah is my Mawla and I am mawla of the faithful and I have superior right on and control over their lives. And this Ali is the mawla of all those of whom I am mawla. O Allah! Love him who loves him and hate him who hates him.

then no point left about Khilafat.

Kaka_MaNNa · February 9, 2007, 7:43pm

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

That talks about loving Ali, we all do. We all love every member of Prophet's family. It does not talk about who will have khilafat... Islam doesn't have any room of KINGSHIP...

Answer my questions:
**
1. After prophet's death, Allah abandoned *Islam and handed it over to the enemies of Islam until caliphate came to Ali? *

There were THREE leaders of Muslims BEFORE Ali took over so there has been a reason, sometype of explanation that involves ALLAH's WILL.

Next point...*

** 2. Or maybe, Hz Abu bakr, umar and usman tricked *Allah so that they get the responsibility of taking care of the young religion and pass it on as well as spread it around the world?*

** Islam back then was like a little baby/infant. Allah chose Islam for us... so as guardian and sustainer of the worlds, would ALLAH hand over Islamic leadership to its enemies while Islam is in its infancy?**
**
Then, when those leaders DIE, let them be buried next to his prophet's grave in his prophet's mosque?** Make sense? Doesn't really fit the profile of "evil" and "unjust" that shia's try to portray. Remember, no body but Ali idea was first circulated and supported by Abdullah bin Sabah+his supporters and no body else.
**
3. Was Ali's caliphate Allah's will?**

Jub Allah Aqal cheehn le to phir hum kya kar saktey hain?

zer01 · February 9, 2007, 10:59pm

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

tsk tsk!! come on dude, you can do better.

And for your colourful post lets say, Mr. A is a firm believer. He belives Allah (swt) is The Hafiz-ul-Hafizeen. He has even hanged a framed name of Allah (swt) "Al Hafeez" in his house. And he believes as long as this name is there, Allah (swt) will potect him, his family and his house and never let any harm done to them.

Now Mr. B, also a firm believer, belives Allah (swt) is The Raziq-ul-Raziqeen. He even always keeps Allaha's (swt) name "Al-Raziq" in his pocket. He believes, no matter what, Allah (swt) will give him rizq. But hes a businessman too, and knows the house Mr. A living in worth millions if he builds a shoping plaza on this property. So one day Mr. B have Mr. A killed. He snatched the property from Mr. A's family by showing them false documents and bulldozed the house allong with that framed name of Allah hanging on the wall.

So if you still cannot get it then:

:)

zer01 · February 9, 2007, 11:27pm

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/khanbaba21/x-002a.jpg

I wonder every word on this image has zair-o-zabr. What happend to Tabraiz and Iran.

Kaka_MaNNa · February 9, 2007, 11:29pm

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

Zero, your analogy is like your nick, zero. It is irrelevant. We are not talking about businessmen, hanging Allah's name in your house DOESN'T mean ANYTHING. You are TALKING ABOUT TODAY's world and my analogy referes to INFANCY of Islam, right after the death of the Prophet.

You talk about business, money and land whereas this was not the case backthen nor did Hz Abu Bakr, Umar and Usman had any interest in that... if you look at their contribution to Islam when Prophet was alive, you would think differently.

I guess, you missed the point of my colorful post. Let's hit home: If you had a infant child, who would you want to take care of the child? His enemies or his friends?

I am sure you will say his friends, then my friend, Allah created you and me so Allah knows better and gave the leadership in order to who he thought was best to lead.

Jub Allah aqal cheehn le to phir banda common sense ke agay bakwass aur illogical analogies ke elawa kuch nahi la sakta. Humara kaam hai explain karna sada aur logical tareekey se.

ye kya baat hai wo businessman hai uss nain dosrey bandey ka ghar tora jis nain allah ka naam hang kia hua tha... Allah ka naam hang karna ka ye mutlab hai ke Allah tumaiin protect karey ga? ye superstition aur jahilana baatain hinduoon par theek lagti hain... ALI aur Prophet ko *love *karney waloon ko nahi.

zer01 · February 9, 2007, 11:49pm

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

Its recorded in history that before the Prophet's (s) beloved grandson Hassan (a.s) died, he asked his brother Hussain (a.s) to take his dead body to Rasulallah's (s) grave. But the Muslim along with some very prominent personalities did not want this to happen. So when they saw "thier" Prophet's (s) beloved grandson Hassan's (a.s) funaral, they started throwing arrows on Hassan (a.S)dead body and did not let it come near the grave of his grandfather (s). Make sense?

You sunni claim, you love Ahle-Bait (a.s). Would you now show your love to your Prophet's family and Denounce the people responsible for this horrible act?

zer01 · February 9, 2007, 11:52pm

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

you ok dude? sorry if I hit some nerve. but sadly it did not work.:(

Dude!....Seriously?!

Kaka_MaNNa · February 10, 2007, 1:18am

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

Zero, I would like to see you back your claims up with solid evidence... if you can't, then its nothing but horsesht.

If we follow your logic then as Sahaba were tricking and abusing the prophet and his family, Allah was napping? Here we have people who gave up their everything for Islam and prophet and look what shias do? Disrespect them and doubt their intentions... APNEY jesa samjha hai?

WAS IT ALLAH's WILL that ALI becamse the THIRD caliph???????????????

Sheraz, you are a cheerleader, you are good at it, please stay that way. You don't have the **intellectual **capacity to even refute single point that I've made, or that anybody has made for that matter.

[quote]
their answer is suicide bombing
[/quote]

I hope, the moderator takes some action against sheraz as he continues to try to take the topic into more controversial and stupid areas. I've posted links and information as well as fatwas from WAHHABI scholars that suicide bombing is haram, those who do it are WRONG and commiting a sin. If I were to reply to sheraz's BS with information regarding who runs the diamond markets, mujra khanas, blue films and othe rstuff, we would have problems like we did last time. So, please put a leash on this one.

deer · February 10, 2007, 1:22am

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

dawa_i_dil:

Your long post remind me of the incident when after all the mushrikee-i-makkah did to stop the message of islam , they came to prophet(pbuh) and said :

*** if you want wealth , we can give you until you will be the richest of all
*if there is some medical problem with you , we can engage the best tabeeb (doctor) for you
*if you want the leadership, we make you leader of makkah
*we can marry you tio the most beatiful girl of makkah **

but plz. do not **divide **us as we for , **centuries **, worshipping idols…

but prophet(pbuh) completely refused these traps , recited to them **sura sajda **, said if you put **a sun on one hand and moon the other hand .. **i wil not stop to preach the true message…

So , we are not here to compell shias into sunnis or vice -versa ..even the 1.1 billions sunnis start this even they cannot do ingle conversion except the Allah , almighty , wish for a person as in hadees , the heart of a person is in allah’s fingers , whereever he can turn ,he turn it …
                ***jisai chahdai nawaz dai , yai baray "naseeb" ki baat hai***
It i the shaheeh hadees of prophet(pbuh) that if you listen a single word from me, transferto the one who does not listen to it …so we are here not dividing the ummah , but giving the true religion of Quran(as it is complete and not in the cave of imam mahdi) and Sunnah(as in sheeh ahadees)…

But we cannot say the **wrong thing right **and vice versa … wrong thing will remain wrong till qiyyamah .. and right will reman right…

furthermore , i have not used a single vicious word against any sect… do not blame me… I have all written from historical pers[pective from your own sources....even then you are unhappy…Strange … If you want to find a **vicious and malicious words **.. then visit www.shiachat.com, then tell me what is the meaning of the word malicious and vicious …Ok

and last , it is usual for the people right from **1400 years **that when they failed to prove thier points and logic … they start raising the **“slogans” **of **"unity " unity **… **Nobody is denying the importance of unity **… but what the hell this unity… are we keep on going listening to to the **vulgars **comments about **our mothers **(wifes pof prophet(pbuh) and start shouting unity unity .. are we keep on listening to the shameful comments about the faithful companions of prophet(pbuh) and then saying **unity unity … … Is this the attitude of the party who want to unite … **!!! In quran there is **written if there is conflict among you , go to quran and sunnah … are you people doing this… as quran is fabricated and most of its part is lost according to your bilief a(naouzobillah) and sunnah means shahhe ahadees ..you do not give a single look to it… then tell me what are the basis of unity…other than quran and sunnah !!! **

Do not **betray **yourself by the **bright neon sign of “Unity” **… If you people were so intersted in unity … why you divided the ummah by murduring usman(ra) …. Yes we can live toghether with peace provided all malicious saying and writting about the companions can be stopped.. but do not **dream **for a unity…

If you were so interested in unity you have shown this **“unity” **into the history but **everytime **, you helped others and **betrayed the majority of muslims…now yyou have a **“boil” of Unity arose in you… Bah

but you realize that you are dividing Muslims not converting ppl who worship the sun or the moon!

not to mention i have not read all, but i have read some of what everyone is saying and a lot of itis just pure crap!!

When billions of dollars BILLIONS of dollars are invested to divide Muslims!!1 yes MUSLIMS - so they kill each other then i think what you are doing isnt really helping nay muslim, but really hurting all of our faith and future!

Furthermore, i am very VERY dubious of these neo-conservative islamists out there, who know suddenly everything about Islam and thier only purpose is to create Fitna b/t Muslims! i hope that the majority on this forum will realize that the need to stay united as Muslims, is far greater then any reason to try and make shia/ sunni see the “light”! I don’t fall prey to such stuff, also in part b/c its odd for me how suddenly these ppl have sooooo much knowledge about Islam.

our histories and authorities are different, so u cant preach your faith to the other! its like using hte Koran to talk tell a christain thier faith is wrong…the problem with that, the christian doesnt believe the Koran to have any authority!!

I do think you are very clever, but i dont htink you are a good Muslim, or good good for Islam. You are creating fitna withink the MUSLIM people.

Just recognize that to destroy Islam money was invested into creating shia sunni divisions that can be traced to the 70’s! Islam was a threat after the Irani revolution. Imagine a proper muslim revolution all over the oil rich mid-east, and you will realize why a democracy, or an Islamic state is a threat. Thus money was invested to create shia sunni divisions. So alot of these little preacher, who teach in backalley fundi schools were actually given crap loads of moeny to start schools all over that propagated shia sunni violence.

You just have to look at history. The concepts of divide and conquer are quite simple. you help the majority oppress the minority. Then you use the minority, support them to overthrow and keep in check the majority. It happened in India, its happening now all over with Muslims.

Today you are arguing Shia sunni. Even if there were no shia’s you’d be arguing about some other split in Islam, perhaps the different divisions in Sunnism itself. The kurds are being funded as we speak to create fitna in Iran.
Its everywhere!!! anything that a threat to corporate powers that be, is destroyed.

So beware!!! recongnize that there are more shia v. sunni websites then ever before. understand why we are being divided, before you indulge in this friction.

Is your own understanding of your own faith good enough? have you acquired all the knowledge you need to be a good Muslim? are your own practices in conformity to your faith!!! is you yourself are not, or are not able to be a good Muslims, then dont you think this indiscretions into shia sunni debates should be secondry? should not your primary goal be to be a good Muslim!! there are plenty of followers believers who believe as you do, but dont practice thier faith well…why not help them first. begin with your family…then spread out to strangers! God will questions you for your actions and your childrens and yor family memebrs, beyond that your duty to others should be secondry!

Preach only after you have mastered the faith in knowlede and in practice yourself!

deer · February 10, 2007, 1:25am

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

Jaan Leva:

Zero, I would like to see you back your claims up with solid evidence... if you can't, then its nothing but horsesht.

If we follow your logic then as Sahaba were tricking and abusing the prophet and his family, Allah was napping? Here we have people who gave up their everything for Islam and prophet and look what shias do? Disrespect them and doubt their intentions... APNEY jesa samjha hai?

WAS IT ALLAH's WILL that ALI becamse the THIRD caliph???????????????

Sheraz, you are a cheerleader, you are good at it, please stay that way. You don't have the **intellectual **capacity to even refute single point that I've made, or that anybody has made for that matter.

I hope, the moderator takes some action against sheraz as he continues to try to take the topic into more controversial and stupid areas. I've posted links and information as well as fatwas from WAHHABI scholars that suicide bombing is haram, those who do it are WRONG and commiting a sin. If I were to reply to sheraz's BS with information regarding who runs the diamond markets, mujra khanas, blue films and othe rstuff, we would have problems like we did last time. So, please put a leash on this one.

why dont you put a leash on your own tounge!!! look at you insulting everyone but then demanding that everyone respect you!!!!

no brother, do unto others as you would have them do unto you! if you can not respect others then do NOT expect such respect back!!

Kaka_MaNNa · February 10, 2007, 1:28am

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

Show me where I insulted? Read zero's mocking comments, read sheraz's asinine association of Islam with suicide bombing.... read the length some bigots will go to insult and abuse and disrespect friends of the prophet, sahaba. If I did make some remarks, it is purely a reply to remarks made by others... like it is the case with Sheraz's post and hence my reply.

I am asking some questions that is all, if these people can't answer, it is not my fault. Don't feel bad.

zer01 · February 10, 2007, 1:51am

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

^ bacha, maybe in a couple years, when you are mature enough. I’ll consider talking to you again. until then I am putting you on my ignore list. So hau ab!! :yukh:

little_human · February 10, 2007, 1:58am

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

For those who really want to know about Taqiyyah, who deep down are looking for the truth about the shia perspective and not from the perspective of allahuakbar or ansar.org etc should take some time and listen to the following muharram lecture that was dedicated to the topic of Taqiyyah.

Looks lilke Moulana sahib had been listening to comments of the likes of Jaan leva on Taqiyyah. :cb: He talks about it using the Quranic perspective.

http://www.cyconline.co.uk/muharam/1428/sayed_ammar.html

Please click on Night 4 Taqiyyah.

I would strongly recommend Jaan Lewa to please listen to it as u feel so strongly about Taqiyyah and there’s no point in having disccussions with people whom u believe to lie and deceive.

It’s a long one but I am sure u can dl into ur mp3/ipods etc and listen to it when u have time. This is for everyone else to listen too who hv been participating and who like me have been silently following this thread.

Kaka_MaNNa · February 10, 2007, 3:29am

Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

When logic is beyond you, ignore is the best option for you. Glad that you’ve withdrawn.

Even if we were to look at your argument, it still doesn’t make any sense. I asked you fo ra PROOF of your baseless fabrication and what you have to say? “mommy mommy, I am going to put this person on ignore, he is asking for proof…awaaiinnn awaainnnnn” ?