Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
brother dawa_i_dil can you plz BRIEFLY comment on the relationship between persian empire vanquished by the Sahaba and shiaism and why you keep bringing it up
thank you
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Then why do we have a hadith in sunni books that says hz Abu Bakr and hz Umar are the leaders of grown ups in jannah?
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Ok, i can give some material about it… The real **hatred **of sahabas lies in the fact that why **these sahabas conquered the super power of iran **and its 2500 years grand history.. and **destroyed **thier great and **most beatiful **cities in the worlds, **gardens **.. **“fawarais” **… **palaces **etc… Just as you see the same nationalism..just 10 15 years back in sind shown **by MQM ** and Sindhis (not all but some culprits, i am not indulging in politics just giving a reference )towards **pathans **and **punjabis **…both were **sunnis **, both were **hanafis **mostly .. but still **Boundaries of provinces **made them **in-human **… **torture -cells **, **drilling the human body **, chopping off nose and ears,and burn the sensitive parts with the **cigratte **… i do not say that prejudice was not shown towards Muhajirs… yes , they had **many problems **but does it mean that you become a **barbarian **. and **malicious **.!!!. but this **“Nationalism” **says **yes **… **you can do anything for “Love” of your province , country , or supreme power …as land is “Dharti Mata” … **
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
1.They call the *Sahaba **who overrun the Sassanid Empire as **uncivilized Bedouins. *
Al-Ihqaqi said, **”The catastrophes that befell both the Iranian and Roman Empires were because of the Muslim **invasion **and the **Arab treatment. **The newly converts who were not **accustomed much with the spirit of Islam, had implanted in their hearts hate to the Arabs and to their customs. This was because the conquerors were uncivilized Bedouins who ravaged and destroyed their beautiful cities and cultivated lands, in the east and the west. The thirsty worshippers of carnal desires raided the chastity and honour of these two empires...... (*Risalatul Emaan,p.323, Mirza Hasan al Haieeri al-Ihqaqi, As Sadiq library, Kuwait) *
According to this Shiite al-Ihqaqi, the noble companions who conquered Persia ,the superpower of the time, with zeal and faith **were early **Bedouins, who worshipped their carnal desires **and they spread **havoc **and **destruction. And this is the main reason why many Shiite Iranians have hatred towards Umar ibn al-Khattab because the later overrun the mighty and arrogant Persian Empire
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
In the Iranian **city of **Keyshan, there is a street by the name of Firouzi. By the side of this road lies the ground of Firouzi **which holds the **tomb of Abu Lu’lu al-Majusi **the **killer of Umar. The Shiite Iranians call him “Baba Shujahudeen” or the “brave of religion” **and they present their **respect and condolences **to him **on the day he died. By giving the attribute of “Baba Shujahudeen” to Abu lu’lu leaves two impressions:
Firstly it makes it clear the Abu Lu’Lu is the **spiritual father **of the Iranis.
Secondly the attribution of “Shujahudeen” shows that *the Zoroastrian religion is the more dearer religion for them. *
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
The same **is the reason behind the **exaltation **of the **descendents **of Imam Hussein(ra) **solely, and not of the *progeny of Imam Hassan(ra). **This is because the descendents of Hussein are their own **Persian brethren as Imam Hussein(ra) was married to ShahrBano the daughter of Yazgard who was the last Persian Empire. [Shiite source: Bihaarul Anwar 45:329] *
One is amazed to see that the Shiites weep **over the martyrdom of **Imam Hussein(ra) **whereas **they never weep over the martyrdom of his brother Abu Bakr ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib and over the martyrdom of his son Abu Bakr. **Those who bear those names are from the **Ahlul Bayt **also. **Why negligence? **Is it because they have names which are **disliked by the Shias and by announcing it to their Shiite listeners would expose the love of the Ahlul Bayt to the companions especially to *Abu Bakr and Umar? *
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Shiite **muhaditeen **like
- Abu Faraj al-Isfahani **in his **Muqatil at-Talibeen-p.88,142,188; **Al-Arbali **in his **Kashful Ghumamah vol.2,p.64; **and *Majlisi in Jila el-ou’ioun 582 **stated that amongst those who were martyred with Hussein in Karbala **were Abu Bakr ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib and Abu Bakr ibn Hussein ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib. *
Why doesn’t the ceremonies held during Ashoora not mention the names of the following who were *martyred with Hussein: *
*Umar ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
Abu Bakr ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
Uthman ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
Abu Bakr ibn Hassan ibn Ali
Umar ibn Hassan ibn Ali
Abu Bakr ibn Hussein ibn Ali
Umar ibn Hussein ibn Ali
Uthman ibn Hussein ibn Ali. *
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Is it because that the likes of Abu Bakr and Umar wiped out the Sassanid arrogance and for this reason mentioning their names are *unbearable? *
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Muhammad Ali Mu’zi, an Iranian Shiite researcher in France **has stated with **pride:
“The basic fundamentals of the Zoroastrian religion **has entered into **Shiaism even in some minute issues. The *marriage **of Imam Hussein with the **daughter of the last Sassanid Empire **is a symbol of ancient Iran as **Shahrbano **became the **first mother or lady **for the Iranian nation. And this relationship marked the **brotherhood **between Shiaism and the **ancient Magian Iran.” *
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
For this reason they exalt Salman al-Farsi *regardless of the **other **companions in so much that they claimed about him that he used to receive **revelations **because he was a *“Persian”. *(Shiite source: Rijaal Kashshi) *
For this reason we see in their works that *Ali ibn Abi Talib **said with respect **to Kisraa of Iran *:
*“God has saved him from the punishment of hell fire, and hell is made forbidden for him.” [Shiite source: Bihaarul Anwar 41:14] *
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Your chimerical theory is nowhere close to the reason of the 'hatred' of the companions. It is due to reason sunnis avoid discussing and resort to circumlocution.
[quote]
*Shiite Iranians have hatred towards Umar ibn al-Khattab because the later overrun the mighty and arrogant Persian Empire
[/quote]
*
What about me? I dont 'criticize' hz Umar for that. So what reason do I have?
**
[quote]
Why doesn’t the ceremonies held during Ashoora not mention the names** of the following who were *martyred with Hussein: *
*Umar ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
Abu Bakr ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
Uthman ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
Abu Bakr ibn Hassan ibn Ali
Umar ibn Hassan ibn Ali
Abu Bakr ibn Hussein ibn Ali
Umar ibn Hussein ibn Ali
Uthman ibn Hussein ibn Ali. *
[/quote]
There were 72 martyrs. You cant mention everybody is great detail. Muhammad bin Abi Bakr is one the most celebrated companions of hz Ali a.s. We respect everybody loyal to Ahle Bayt.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
:) are you fighting only for the leadership in Jannah
how amazing
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
can you please elaborate the term Maula
why you use the word Maula for Hazrat Ali RA ?
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Agree with you 100 % …
there can be **contradiction **that who is the leader of jannah…but not the contradiction that all of **4 **of them..hassan(ra) , hussain(ra) , abu bakr(ra) and umar(ra) will be in jannah as quoted in hadees of Ahra mubashhara(10 men in jannah) …
so mairay bhai … instead that we will **strive **for jannah , **i **will strive for jannah , **you **will strive for the jannah because of we have **no guarentee to enter jannah … **we start **cursing **those who are already in jannah … LOL 
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Brother , whether you accept it or not ..the reality remains reality… again , truth is bitter …but have guts to accept its bitterness…
Agree with you … but you **criticize **him for the **“Facts” **which i used to say **“Dastan-e-Ameer hamza” **almost all written by the **same iranis and iraqis shias **of ancient times in this **“hatred” **of **persian nationalism **as i have proved above from **your own sources **… so indirectly, you are also criticize him as "Qissays" written in those books …
In great detail
i have even never heard thier name from any shia… are they not te sons of ali(ra) and hussain(ra) … why not even name then… The same **“formula” **of **“Taqiyya” **, my dear brother !!!
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Agree with you ... but you criticize *him for the *"Facts" *which i used to say *"Dastan-e-Ameer hamza" *almost all written by the **same iranis and iraqis shias **of ancient times in this *"hatred" *of **persian nationalism **as i have proved above from **your own sources *... so **indirectly, you are also criticize him as "Qissays" written in those books ....
I have no idea about 'Dastan e Ameer Hazma' and I dont give a damn about persian nationalism. I criticize those companions for their behaviour after the demise of the Holy Prophet (s). I believe I dont need to belabor exactly what they did. They are well known.
Shiaism, as you may be alluding to, was not a political movement - whatsoever. It was not the product of some legendary figure such as a Jewish rabbi nor was it the result of some 'fitna' which eventually resulted in the killing of hz Usman. If you analyze the history of Shiaism you will find that the foundations of 'Shiaism' were laid on purely religious grounds. No doubt there were hypocrytes who allied themselves with Ali a.s. for purely political reasons. Nevertheless Shiaism had ardent supports as well. So to conclude that 'Shiaism' originated from 'persian nationalism' is an oversimplification of a very complex history.
[quote]
In great detail :D
i have even never heard thier name from any shia..... are they not te sons of ali(ra) and hussain(ra) ... why not even name then.... The same *"formula" **of *"Taqiyya" **, my dear brother !!!!!
[/quote]
yeh IN great detail :) Ok so would you believe me that these names were mentioned in the recent majlis I attended?
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
You have broached the most disputed issue. I won't discuss the 'meaning' of the word Maula. Suffice would be to say that hz Ali a.s is the Maula of every believer. Now you may take the meaning as a 'Friend' or 'Master'. Either way he IS your Maula.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
You asked a good question in quran parwardigar says
*O Messenger, Proclaim what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His Message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people (Qur'an: Chapter 5,) *
We (Shias of Ali Ibn Abi Talib) believe that the proclamation mentioned by the Qur'anic verse was fulfilled by the Prophet (s) when he appointed Imam 'Ali bin Abi Talib (a) as his successor on the day of Ghadeer Khumm.
Rasool Allah said in Ghadeer
"He of whom I am the master (mawla), of him 'Ali is also the master (mawla). O God, be the friend of him who is his friend, and be the enemy of him who is his enemy."
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Sir who told you we are fighting.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Cholo gee… Bhai saab nai sari baat hee muka dee…a tons of long hours i spent on posting on this thread and on the thread “A reality, but so painful” …about the tribal , political , social and philosophical backgrounds of this conflicts and history … all you said that no this conflict is a "religious " grounds… Ya Khuda !!!
**Ya rub wo na samghay hain na samghay gay mairi baat
dai aur dil unko , jo na dai mugh ko zuba aur
**Ghalib