“Muhammad (pbuh) is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last (end) of the Prophets. And Allah is Ever All Aware of everything.” (The Holy Quran 33:40)
Sayings of the holy Prophet (peace be upon him)
“The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me.” (Bukhari)
“The Hour will not come … until nearly thirty “dajjals” (liars) appear, each one claiming to be a messenger from Allah.” (Bukhari) (Muslim)
“The chain of Messengers and Prophets has come to an end. There shall be no Messenger nor Prophet after me." (Tirmidhi)
“I am Muhammad, I am Ahmad, I am the effacer and infidelity shall be erased through me; I am the assembler. People shall be assembled on Doomsday after my time. (In other words Doom is my only successor.) And I am the last in the sense that no prophet shall succeed me.” (Bukhari) (Muslim)
“I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. There will be no prophet after me.” (Musnad Ahmad)
To Ali (r) “You are related to me as Aaron was related to Moses (peace be upon him). But no Apostle will come after me.” (Bukhari and Muslim)
“And there will arise thirty impostors in my Ummah and each one of them will pronounce to the world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the Prophets of God and no Apostle will come after me." (Abu Dawud)
^
If people returned to the guidance brought by the last Prophet (peace be upon him) then the world would come out of the mess it’s in… if only people realised…
We need a prophet for the modern world. One that doesn't relate spirituality to 7th century Arabic terms. We've had 1400 years to try and get the last message right and were still soooo far away.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
We need a prophet for the modern world. One that doesn't relate spirituality to 7th century Arabic terms. We've had 1400 years to try and get the last message right and were still soooo far away.
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Ifv u dont understand the message it ur fault! Vast majority of muslims are blessed with Quran and Holy Prophets sunnah.. the message is till end of times.. its the people not the message that have trouble.. till message in form of Quran is safe as promised by Allah In quran..no other prophet will come after Muhammad (PBUH) in muslim faith.. Mujaddad's will come to reform or explain..
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
We need a prophet for the modern world. One that doesn't relate spirituality to 7th century Arabic terms. We've had 1400 years to try and get the last message right and were still soooo far away.
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I agree with Degas on this one. The times when the Quran was revealed were very different as well. People were plunged in to the depths of Ignorance and barbarism. But the same Quran changed the way of people's life. Its not the Message(Quran) that needs conformity its the people and the time that needs to conform to the Quran. Time is from people and if people start practising the teachings then times will change as well.
I didn't say that I don't understand it, I just don't think it fully addresses spirituality in today's world. Perhaps the reason so many don't follow it the way it was intended is because it was written and delivered to 7th century Arabs and full of rules and customs based on that peculiar and ancient culture. Why would God not update his Word to reflect today's modern society instead of trying to get mankind to conform to rules that were meant for the barbaric and ignorant desert tribes of the past?
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Seminole: *
I didn't say that I don't understand it, I just don't think it fully addresses spirituality in today's world. Perhaps the reason so many don't follow it the way it was intended is because it was written and delivered to 7th century Arabs and full of rules and customs based on that **peculiar and ancient culture.
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The message wasn't delivered only for their culture, in my belief it was intended for all of humanity. And whether one considers a culture "peculiar" is, i think, an extremely subjective opinion.
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Why would God not update his Word to reflect today's modern society instead of trying to get mankind to conform to rules that were meant for the barbaric and ignorant desert tribes of the past?
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Those barbaric and ignorant desert tribes practiced female infanticide and arbitrary tribal killings, all of which were outlawed by Islam.
By peculiar, I mean VERY different than any culture of today. The rules in the Quran seem to have been very effective in changing 7th century Arab culture. But if we could have an update of His word that dealt with the realities of today and not the peculararities of 7th century desert life more people could relate, understand and follow.
p.s. I borrowed the "barbaric and ignorant" description from the previous poster defending the timelessness of the Quran.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Seminole: *
**But if we could have an update of His word that dealt with the realities of today and not the peculararities of 7th century desert life more people could relate, understand and follow.
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*
Then i don't see how one billion individuals are living their lives, the vast majority of them in, yes, peace - if we were all following a 7th century nomadic lifestyle? i mean i consider myself rather close to my faith and at the same time i probably live out a lifestyle that is as far away from a 7th century desert life as possible. No contradiction there. i still follow my faith (not perfectly but that is a constant struggle). Somehow or the other, there is something within Islam that applies for all of humanity, for all times, not simply 600 AD.
Seminole Islam is not like Christianity or Judaism. The message of Islam is divine, it is suitable for all times, circumstances and situations.
Islam, exactly as it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and without any changes or alterations, is the religion that God chose for all people from the time he sent His Messenger till the end of time.
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*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
Then i don't see how one billion individuals are living their lives, the vast majority of them in, yes, peace - if we were all following a 7th century nomadic lifestyle?
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While most may be living in "peace", most also live in a state of illiteracy, poverty and oppression. I'm not implying that everyone is still herding sheep, but that they are still following rules written for sheep herders. That would explain the lack of progress, stability and education for the majority of the Muslim world.
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Somehow or the other, there is something within Islam that applies for all of humanity, for all times, not simply 600 AD.
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I agree, but most Muslims seem to be stuck in the literal, fundamentalist view of the religion and are unable to view the Quran as an allegorical, metaphorical guide to life. As with the Bible, Quranic texts were meant to transform the peculiar lifestyle of the people of that time (and place). I have read enough of the Quran to know there are wonderful words of wisdom to help one live a righteous life. But I also know that the literal translation by millions of Muslims causes the subjectgation of women, stifling of progress and violence in the name of God.
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*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
Seminole Islam is not like Christianity or Judaism. The message of Islam is divine, it is suitable for all times, circumstances and situations.
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The Christians and Jews could (and do) make the same claims.
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Islam, exactly as it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and without any changes or alterations, is the religion that God chose for all people from the time he sent His Messenger till the end of time.
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While I respect your right to accept that as the truth for you, I disagree that it is the truth for me or "all people" till the end of time for the reasons I've already mentioned.
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*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
What is the reason given by Koran (and Alla) for designating a person as "last". What's the downside with more?
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That's what I don't understand. If there have been 124,000 prophets delivered, mostly during uneducated and pre-recorded history, why has the pipeline stopped now that man has become educated? Why would the last message still be preaching the same things that ancient texts had been harping on for years?
I personally am holding out hope for a final message that cannot be intrepreted as divine permission to oppress or kill others. It will be more refined and spiritual, addressing the new enlightened mankind and have less to do with carnal pleasures/pains, rules, punishments and a physical Hell. There will be nothing in this message about the way one treats a slave, who is allowed to pray with who, or God's Grooming Codes.
I'm not bashing Islam here, pre-Christ Judeo-Christian scripture is the same. It was great these religions developed, man was in need of spiritual guidance. I'm all about the monotheistic religions - there is a lot of truth in them. The literal translation of these texts worked for the people of that time and brought them closer to God. There is great spiritual guidance in the Quran and I can see how someone could lead a righteous life in the full glory of God. I see that possibility in almost all the religions I've read about. It's all in the interpretation.
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*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
What is the reason given by Koran (and Alla) for designating a person as "last". What's the downside with more?
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Nothing.. but as muslims belive that Quran as word of God would not change till end of times there is no need for any more guidence.. more guidence was only needed when original message was changed with passage of time.. as if u agree or not Quran is safe not only in written form but also in hearts of millions around the world.. can u bring a single book besides Quran that is learnt by heart by so many people..
Besides, millions embrace Islam today all around the world. and evn in USA its the most rapidly spreading religion .. we dont feel any thing in Islam that is not imcompatible with so called modern world as Islam will remain relevant not only today but till end of times.. more than billion muslims around the world apply daily in their lives..
If there's been no need for an updated message in the last 1400 years, that'd really be sad. For starters - it doesn't deal with modern political systems, it doesn't deal with women's rights of equality, it doesn't deal with modern economic systems, it doesn't deal with most aspects of current reality - electronics, appliances, knowledge work; it doesn't deal with the way & the why of current wars.
I know, all those are either irrelevant to a true Muslim who has faith in Alla or have been dealt with in so subtle and coded way that only those with absolute faith will understand. But then are you saying there was no faith in Alla before the 'last' prophet?
Isn't the very purpose of a prophet and a divine message to "reform and lead" the unbelieving? Therefore the arguements about "only those who have faith will understand" doesn't hold any water.
Without making this an arguement for or against the religion, can you please address whether there there's any reason (per Quron) that's known for saying no more prophets?
^ tommy there isn't anhy because the entire concept is based on circular logic.
Quran is the word of god
^ Why
Because it says so in the quran
Similarly Mohammad is the last prophet
^why
Because it says so in the quran.
This is not a scientific or logical reasoning. It is made for people living in the desert in 7th century.
Now..if you were ot say, M ohammad is the last prophet because we belive as muslims and as part of ourfaith, but not as a universal truth, that he is the last prophet. it would make more sense logically.
But remember, the message of the good book is shunned in light of the absolutes that deal with treament of an ignorant, uncivilized people in the 7th century.
So when pork is made haraam. Insteqadof looking at it that be careful about what you eat. Which is a noble message, entire food source is made haraam. Probably in the 7th century, and the hebrew influence on the quran, pigs were thought to be unedible entities. But of course mad cow disease wasn't around then so there is no precedence and no guidance from the good book.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Seminole: *
**I agree, but most Muslims seem to be stuck in the literal, fundamentalist view of the religion and are unable to view the Quran as an allegorical, metaphorical guide to life. ...]But I also know that the literal translation by millions of Muslims causes the subjectgation of women, stifling of progress and violence in the name of God.
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i wasn't going to continue this conversation (not out of disrespect for you, on the contrary just the opposite because i didn't want to bug you anymore) - but, unfortunately, here i am. Unable to resist.
Please realize that it is not "most" Muslims stuck in the 7th century, stuck with the "literal, fundamentalist view" of Islam. It's not "most" - it's a minority whose actions speak louder than the majority's, and that is why we tend to hear so MUCH of them. But please do realize there are millions of Muslims stretching from the Malay islands to Samarkand to Senegal to London to Vancouver to New York - we're the majority, and we have discovered, somewhat, a healthy relationship of our faith within our modern, 21st century lifestyles.
Re the point about sheep herders - i am not entirely certain what was meant by that but it did strike me that all of the most learned and best men in history, have been shepherds... including Prophets Jesus and Muhammad (may God's peace and blessings be upon both of them).