Guys…just read a few other posts to do with castes and the like…was just wondering if anyone could expand upon the “Mughal” caste. My family are all originally from Lahore, in PK, even from pre-partition, but that’s as much as I know. Whats the significance of Mughals…
and BTW…what of “Lohaars”?..
Thanks
Kazi:hoonh:
Re: Mughal caste
Mughals are later Tartars.
Re: Mughal caste
Tartars?!?!?!
LOL…that sounds like a swear word…but seriously…isn’t that like some warrior community from the turk/central asia region??? Please expand further if you could…thanks…
**PS I’ve heard of mughal-e-azam…does that mean i must be mughal-e-kazam???
**
Kazi:hoonh:
Re: Mughal caste
yeh as far as I remember they were initially turks, wiht some mongol in them. Correct me if I am wrong, but didint Babur write his famed book babrunama in Chaghtai turkish. I belive later on they became persianized, adn then indianzed. They are like the safavids, qajars, and waht not in Iran. Originally turkic, but intermarried and adopted persian culture.
Re: Mughal caste
Mughals are descendents of Mongols troops of Gengez Khan who (after the fall of Mongol expeditions) remained and lived in the Central Asian region. They married in Uzbek and Kazak nations there. In their early mughal culture there are clear influences of Central Asian region mixed with some persian art and litrature.
Re: Mughal caste
OK…i kno this is wrong of me to say…but like in the whole caste system in pak(some may argue that there isn’t one)…where do the mughals come…
Kazi:hoonh:
Re: Mughal caste
Dear kazi
Assalam-o-Alaikum
Hope you would be fine. Reagrding your query, here are my humble deliberations.
From anthropological point of view, humans have been genrally divided into three main groups. Caucassoids, Mongoloids and Negroids. As far as the Mughals are concerned, they are are a mixture of the Caucassoids and Mongoloids. How come? The Mughals originally belong to a place called FARGHANA in Central Asia. Here the descendants of Chengiz Khan (Mongoloid) and the Tartars (Caucassoid) by virtue of certain intermarriages came up a new family started by Amir Taimur Lang or Tamerlane (Lang from Langra as he was limp from one leg). The descendants of Amir Taimur later came to be known as MUGHALS. There were several families of Mughals, but almost all of them used certain names for themselves. Later with the influence of Mongol, Turkish and Perisan languages, their Cheiftain and Leaders were given several honourific titles. Under the Mongol influence, some of them were called KHANS, under Turtish influence, some of them were called **BEGS *and under Persian influence, they were called *MIRS. The sons of ***MIRS* were called MIRZADA which over a period of time was condensed to MIRZA. Some continued to be called as BEGS whose wives were called*** BEGUM*. This word has its derivation from ***BEGS. There are several subcastes of Mughals, which, although were related to each other and were from the same pedigree, but later on they were split into many. Some of them are;
*MIRZA**
BEG
BARLAS
CHUGHATTA
CHUGHTAI
MEEM
Some people consider all of the Mughals as Mirza and/or Begs while some count them as separate families. Chughatta and Chughtai are related but over a period of time have come to be known as two separate branches. The Meem group is very limited while Barlas are present in considerable numbers.
The relation-ship of *MUGHALS **and **LOHAARS* is quite interesting. For its understanding, let us briefly touch the history.
After Zaheer-ud-Din Muhammad Babar, the Mughal throne was passed to Naseer-ud-Din Muhammad Humayun. One of his generals and governer of Bihar in Bengal, Fareed Khan, who called himself Sher Shah, of Sur, revolted against him and with the help of local **Hindus *and some clans of *Jatts** who by that time had not confessed Islam, dethroned Humayun. Although Fareed Khan established himself on the throne with the help of Hindus and *Jatts, but there were few *Rajput Clans* who had accepted Islam. They included the *Khakhars, Khokhars and Jarrals. *These clans revolted against Fareed Khan, who had to rebuild the fort of *Rohtas** to stop their advances. Later, with the help of these Rajputs plus Persians and some **Baloch *tribes Humayun was able to regain his throne from Fareed Khan (Sher Shah Suri). Over here there is one very interesting fact which most of the people do not know. There are certain Rajputs in the Pothohar and Lower Kashmir, who use an honourific tiltle of *Mirza** before their names. They include some clans of Jarrals and Khakhars. The reson behind this title is that after gaining victory, Humayun married some Mughal Princesses with some of the Jarral and Khakhar Chiefs. The later generations of these cheifs came to be known as Mirza, wheras actually they are Rajputs. This was the reward given by Humayun to his helpers. But what about the helpers of his enemies, the Suris? The Mughals started subjecting them to hardships especially the non muslim Jatts. They were made to till the land and do menial jobs. Slowly some of them started accepting Islam, but a good majority remained skeptical of Mughals. Slowly and gradually, the Jatts started gaining power, but their hatred against Mughals did not let them to confess Islam. These Hindu Jatts believing in Polyteism, were brought to the doorsteps of Tauheed by **Guru-Nanak *who came to be known as *Sikhs** in due course of time. He died leaving the Sikhs with a book called Garanth Sahib. But the Mughal Court especially the clergy remained skeptical of Sikhs. Instead of a mediation and toleration which could steer them from Tauheed of Sikhs to Tauheed of Islam, they were potrayed as a threat to the empire. They along with their Gurus were unfortuantely persecuted. This persecution led to the transformation of docile Sikhs into a Militant band by the fourth Guru Gobind Singh, who introduced the creed of 5 K's, i.e., Kaish, (long hair and beard), Kangha (comb), Kara (bangle), Karpan (sabre) and Kacha (under wear) and started calling his desciples as Singh (lion). This animosity between Sikhs and Mughals continued till the 9th and the last of Sikh Gurus Guru Tegh Bahadur was executed in the court of Aurangzeb Alamgir. All this lead to a general unrest in Sikh community and they started plundering and and killing Mughals whenever they got a chanace.
When, Ahmad Shah Abdali attacked India and defeated Marhattas, it created a power vacuum in India. He dismissed most of the Mughal Chiefs in The Punjab and gave certain leverages to the Sikhs. All this led to a situation from which armed bands of Sikhs started benefitting and with the help of British, the leader of the strongest armed band i.e., Ranjeet Singh, became the ruler of the Punjab in 1797. Over a period of 50 years till 1848 this Sikh Kindom apart from The Punjab, included, Kashmir, Sarhad, Kabul, Kandhar and Eastern Afghanistan. During this era, the Sikhs avenged all the excsesses made unto them by Mughals. The Mughals were persecuted and killed. Their buildings were looted. The Masjid made by Aurangzeb i.e., Badshahi Masjid was made a stable for horses, may be not on account of a hatred for Muslims, but may be on account of hatred for Aurangzeb and Mughals.
Having written thus far, lets come back to the main topic. It is during this Sikh Rule over the Punjab, that Mughals were made to do menial jobs. Many of them were made to look after the horses, some were made to work in foundaries to make swords, shields and other battle equipment. That was the turning point in the history of Mughals, when the rulers, after becoming subjects were converted into Blacksmiths or LOHAARS. Apart from blacksmiths, the Sikhs also used to call those in other in menial professions or **KAMMIS **as MUGHAL as a sign of disrespect and hatred.
(By the way, to earn ones living through ones hands is the Sunnah of Prophets. Therefore we must not call anybody as KAMMI).
I hope now you must have found the missing link.
With regards.
Khuda Hafiz.
Re: Mughal caste
WOW! Alhamdulillah…Br Dr Sufi thanks very much!
I truly appreciate that…never quite understood the whole link between, what I knew as the rulers of Indian Sub-continent, and how they ended up as Blacksmiths! Fascinating stuff.
Mum n Dad brought up here (UK), Both sets of grandparents passed away, majority of relatives in Pakistan…so its a bit difficult to learn of my ancestoral history…but you’ve helped a great deal…JazakAllah…
Interestingly…my naaniami came from a family of mirza’s…so that cleared that up too…as i was always a bit cautious re:ahmadi/mirazai’s and the fact that somewhere in my family tree there were mirzas!
Thanks bro
Kazi:hoonh:
Re: Mughal caste
Dear Dr. M. N. Sufi, please be careful while writing history. Your account of Mughals above is replet with inaccuracies/incosistencies e.g. when you say Sher Shah (Farid Khan) was a general of Hamayun from Behar or that he dethorned Hamayun with the help of Jats and Rajputs or that Sikh rule extended to Kabul and Kandahar…I will recommend the following link for you to update your knowledge about Sher Shah.
http://www.indhistory.com/sher-shah-suri.html
Kazi, I will suggest you to consult preferrably multiple academic sources about Mughals. It is usually dangerous to rely on non-academic sources.
Re: Mughal caste
**Yeh baat bi sach hai…laikin main kaun sa PhD thesis liknay waalan hoon is subject par…It just an informal idea of what the mughals were… But thanks for pointing that out to me…
**
**Kazi:hoonh: **
Re: Mughal caste
i know a guy who cant stop rubbing the fact that he is mughal caste everytime i see him. i mean i couldnt care less. but he seems to think its cool. whats the big deal? your ancestors WERE kings.....you are NOT.
Re: Mughal caste
I'm Briyani cate...my mom is the Queen of Briyani....
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^^ now THAT is a caste to be proud of!
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Im a mughal too...but someone once told me our caste got beaten up and were forced 2 become like blacksmiths and stuff....How the mighty fall!!!
Re: Mughal caste
Hi im a mughal and im frm karachi do u know the meaning of mughal it is the empire
Re: Mughal caste
Good article on Ferghana Valley where Mughals originated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Darya
http://www.world66.com/asia/centralasia/uzbekistan/ferghanavalley
http://www.stantours.com/uz_rg_fg.html
http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/pp101803.shtml
Re: Mughal caste
If I can provide my humble opinion.
Mughal does not mean empire as the brother above has stated, it is a persianised word for Mongolian. Genghiz Khan had referred to his people as the 'Meng Wu' which was later understood as Mongol. Persianisation also gave us Sikander from Alexander.
As far as I am aware, there are basic true Mughals (of repute) and some fakes around too.
With regards to the most dominant, it has to be the Timuri Mughals. There only descendants were Aurangzeb's line through Bahadur Shah Zafar (which ended during the British, some other remnants are thought to be in Delhi but thats something I havent researched well.....some militant RSS claimed it a while ago)
The other line belonged to Shehzada Darah Shikoh, who was ofcourse killed by Aurangzeb Shah. His sons exiled themselves to avoid troubles with their uncle and are presently only residing in Sangohi, Darapur. They have a legitimate Shajra and the local accounts all suppport this. Infact there have been some very famous saints of this line at the local area too, continuing Dara Shikoh's Sufiyana legacy. Thats the only Baburi/Timuri Mughals.
The Chaghutta Mughals who I believe are the descendants of Chaghutai (also spelt Jaga tai) who succeeded his father Genghis Khan. They are found to be good warriors and entered India with Emperor Babur Mughal.
Beyond these, ofcourse other prominent Mughal tribes also entered India with them, but they all had family names too.
If someone far back in your line was referred to as Mirza, it may be you are a true Mughal. I have seen a lot of references that when menial castes (their words, not mine) were converted to Islam, they referred to themselves as 'Mughals'. Infact some Gakhars allege Mughal Kayani status (Rawalpindi) . Infact Major Wace believed that when some Jats converted, they would call themselves as Mughal. (Panjab Castes, Denzil Ibbetson, p212)
See, majority of people back then thought of Mughal as a status as opposed to ethnicity. Hope that helps.
Re: Mughal caste
interesting reading here...
my grandfather (dadu) puts a great deal into being a Mughal....and yet here in this country it actually means nothing...it is just a name.
i knew of some of this before i.e decendants of Ghengis khan etc.. but the Mughal history as ruler and the caste system i didnt know about..
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App kooog Mughalsssz ki history per ke he kush hotai rahaiiii 
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im a decendent of mugals....na na bo bo???? but i dont think people say im mugal its not fashionable i guess...lol instead of sayin we have mugal ancestory my family say we are a kashmiri family, which kind of indirectly leads back to being mugal...which i dont get...by the way my last name was mention here...but mine has a different spelling...i feel so speical...lol