Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial System

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121

No answer for my question?

Maulana does not make it Halal. The question is not about the Maulana, or interest.

The question is that are there any explicit instructions in Quran which we can use to improve the financial systems (based primarily on greed) that we have? Why not strive to implement those instructions if there are?

Or, we can announce Quranic instructions on economics as obsolete.

**

122

You have to be in the leadership position in a system to improve it.

And right now Pakistani nation is not leading the financial planning of the world, so just be a good follower and wait for your turn to rise up and then use your judgement to change it.

How many times you have seen that a bank CEO has walked up to a pauper faqeer and asked him how to improve the banking system? Then how to do you think mere Maulanas who can't improve even Pakistan's economy would be able to do something worthwhile about improving global financial system?

Quran is filled with instructions for individuals, for groups, and for nations.

You as an individual fulfill them at the individual level to the best of your abilities,
Groups should fulfill the group-obligations to the best of their abilities.
Nations should fulfill the national-obligations to the best of their abilities.

In Quran there is no "forced conversions" to anything neither for the individual, nor the group nor the nation.

So do not be a hut-dharm and disrupt the existing financial systems. Be good at them and rise to the top and then say, I want to do things slightly differently, in order to improve the system and people will listen to you.

Similarly groups have to strive hard and reach to the top

Similarly nations have to strive hard and reach to the top.

And when the nations are at the top, they can decide to update the rules that govern an existing system.

We all know, Pakistan is financially at the bottom of the pit (or near the bottom), then the first "Quranic obligation" for us as a nation is to get out of the hellish poverty filled pit instead of sitting their among the tribals and primitive people, arguing about something that we have no control on.

Hope this clears up things for you.

123

Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

^ And you believe adhering to Quranic principles cannot take us to the top?

124

Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

Burqaposh, yes its true that moulanas are not running the current financial system, at present what they are doing, likes of Mufti Taqi Usmani, is helping out Islamic banks in making their system shariah compliant, which in turn is being sold to consumers of these banks.

In this role, they are very successful, islamic banking is booming and making profits, more than regular ones. Many banks have opened up "islamic" branches to tap into that market.

These Islamic banks are now part of current global financial system. No amount of petty names and lowly sants will change that. So plz spare us the gibberish.

Now, will this banking system change the capitalist economy of the world, IMHO, the answer is a big NO. Does it provide an alternate to capitalism, big NO.

125

Golden Quranic principles such as speaking truth and being honest and being tolerant will certainly take us to the top.

But if you ignore these, and go grab financial systems, then the answer to your question is simply NO!

126

Too bad you joined this discussion at this point. So you may have to go back and read the posts by TLK and others who agreed that at present

Islamic banking is a dhoka bazi, fraud or at the minimum mis-labeled products.

And if you read the previous posts, you will clearly find why these products are a "clear lie" because they are nothing but the traditional banking products put under a green hijab.

And if you see this conclusion as "gibberish", then may Allah swt help you.

127

Again a jalebi. Let me rephrase the question:

Do you believe adhering to Quranic principles, excluding guidance on economics, will take us to the top?

128

the said post #125 clearly described the formula for getting to the top of the nations and how to prioritize things.

However you refuse to understand it and continue getting confused and becoming "jalebi".

Your questions and takrar is not too different from the Jews who broke the rules of Sabath and then started long arguments. Read 2:65+ to understand.

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

Why Moulana's bank increase your monthly rent whenever SBP increase the base rate?

130

Another jalebi. Could you ever answer anything directly, precisely? You go on and on and on about things unrelated to the question and do what you are saying about jews. I asked a simple question, and need a simple answer.

Just say it, you don't believe Quran is relevant in 'modern' economic system anymore. We need to forget about it to 'get to the top'.

131

kakah.

Ub aaap juzbati batain ker rahay hain.

Did you read before you posted the above sentences?

Mostar asked a simple question too. Care to answer it?

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

The concept of money and credit have come into existence long before the dawn of Islam. I do not think so Quran gives any such concept. Quran only prohibits the element of coericon in interest and loans. People use to make slaves after granting the loans.

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

Burqa, Yes, I read and I just need a simple, one sentence answer.

Do you believe we cannot get to top while adhering to Quranic principles regarding economics?

I answered Mostar's question many times before. I believe the current "Islamic products" are only change in form and not substance from traditional banking, i.e. not Islamic as you agree.

There is much more guidance in Quran regarding economics and finance in addition to prohibition of riba. Why restrict ourselves to interest only?

134

lols ................ i agree with ur conclusion. i think this guy does nt know about the ABC of banking both islamic and conventional.

probably he heard few ppl discussing about islamic banking on a paan shop and has drawn conclusion from the discussion.

135

my friend its other way around, and you will agree too, most of the fatwa's and religious rulings are discuss in pan, barber, tailor shops - because that's the lot which get "bewaqoof" right away !

when someone questions, the label of non-muslim, westerner, and blah blah comes up !

136

OK my firend, my questions are still open, please answer them, there are different versions, one is bit advanced and other one is basic, pick it and answer and we'll take it from there...

I think the most easy job in the world is to criticize some one as it takes no qualification at all, but when it comes to in length discussion on certain topics many Einstiens just try to find their way out by making lousy comments as your friend did....

137

no body is questioning molana taqi usmani religious knowledge, but how to run financial system is a different thing - let me give you an example: when the recession came up - all the molana's said in one voice the end of the west is near - this shows that people have no idea how the system work but still they wanted to change it.

in this very thread most of the people now see the picture behind islamic banks, technically they are lying by giving an exotic name to interest .

if you call pig chicken, it will still be a pig !

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

again firenze with the same old not even argument that islamic banking is fraud.. do you have something better to offer? if not at least learn to appreciate the effort. and no, not all maulanas said end of west is near, get that dirty image out of your mind bro.. learn to respect the scholars. let me ask u, did they invite u to the world economic forum or Mufti Taqi Usmani sahab? right.

139

Even i don't agree on many verdicts of Mufti Taqi Usmani, but my disagreement does not gives me the right to not to respect him, despite of his short-comings, he had done some progressive work in the development of Islamic Financial markets, now at end of the day, it is not Mufti Taqi Usmani who finalize the banking products nor does he gives innovative ideas on the same, it is the shareholders/executive management who sees everything on the basis of profit & loss, the word Islamic is their but yes they have need to develop/evolve in each and every other depart, changing of titles from interest to profit won't make big difference in eyes of many, but to me it is the start.. and rightly the new banking products shall be more close to real islamic teachings for trade and financial activities

140

This clear fraud in the name of "Islamic banking" has been going on for a while now.

So instead of "LoLing", care to get serious and point out where in the world the true Islamic banking is being practiced?

No "aaanyeeen baaaayeeen and shaaayeeen", just facts please.

Thank you.