Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial System

[burqaposhx]

^ what i mean was this "modern system" burqa boasts about, the basis of it is RIBA. so burqa just say it man riba is ok in modern times...

1. Modern banking system is part of the modern day financial system.

2. Modern day financial system is totally different from the primitive tribal financial system that existed 1400 years ago.

thus

your Mufti sahiban cannot use the primitive tribal cultural aspects and critique the banks.

This is like using donkey caravan to establish rules for running modern trains, ships, and airplanes.

that's why it is important for Muftis to stick to their Hujras and let the modern financial experts to innovate and improve the current system.

If you follow Mufti logic, you will say this after every air-disaster!

------ Go back and start riding the donkeys, donkeys are safe, donkey hamara awaay e awaay!

However what we need is to accept the current system the way it is and use a selection of the products that match with our financial well being and our risk tolerance.

If you don't like earning interest, put your money in the no-interest account.

If you want to do profit-loss sharing, then go invest in stocks.

But do not commit fraud and dhoka bazi by mis-labeling a regular product and selling it as "Islamic product".

Do not tell people to become a financially illiterate donkey.

Got it?

[cricketplaya]

@burqaposhx

1. Modern banking system is part of the modern day financial system.

2. Modern day financial system is totally different from the primitive tribal financial system that existed 1400 years ago.

thus

your Mufti sahiban cannot use the primitive tribal cultural aspects and critique the banks.

This is like using donkey caravan to establish rules for running modern trains, ships, and airplanes.

that's why it is important for Muftis to stick to their Hujras and let the modern financial experts to innovate and improve the current system.

If you follow Mufti logic, you will say this after every air-disaster!

------ Go back and start riding the donkeys, donkeys are safe, donkey hamara awaay e awaay!

However what we need is to accept the current system the way it is and use a selection of the products that match with our financial well being and our risk tolerance.

If you don't like earning interest, put your money in the no-interest account.

If you want to do profit-loss sharing, then go invest in stocks.

But do not commit fraud and dhoka bazi by mis-labeling a regular product and selling it as "Islamic product".

Do not tell people to become a financially illiterate donkey.

again, all gibberish. your kind boast about using logic but when it's time show it, you come with some illogical arguments. No substance, just arrogance. I suggest it's time for you to read the paper.

@burqaposhx

Got it?

I've been reading a lot of Islamaphobes recently and all they use is that phrase "Got it?" at the end of their nonsensical blogs/articles. You've taken a page out of their book I guess.

[burqaposhx]

@cricketplaya

.... I've been reading a lot of Islamaphobes recently and all they use is that phrase "Got it?" at the end of their nonsensical blogs/articles. You've taken a page out of their book I guess.

I am seeing that a lot Jihadis and Islamists are shown clear examples and they

Still won't get it.

p.s. The problem with Jiahdis is that they want to use terror and not their aql to understand the world around them. Perhaps a desire to live in caves overpowers their faculties.

[cricketplaya]

Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

Why not use the so-called aql and read the paper and then comment.

Btw, also use that aql to come up with an argument rather than donkey stories.

[firenze]

@burqaposhx

I am seeing that a lot Jihadis and Islamists are shown clear examples and they

Still won't get it.

p.s. The problem with Jiahdis is that they want to use terror and not their aql to understand the world around them. Perhaps a desire to live in caves overpowers their faculties.

100% .. brother on spot !

[kakaballi]

Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

Ofcourse, Islamic financing is terrorism.

[hanibal]

@burqaposhx

1. Modern banking system is part of the modern day financial system.

2. Modern day financial system is totally different from the primitive tribal financial system that existed 1400 years ago.

thus

your Mufti sahiban cannot use the primitive tribal cultural aspects and critique the banks.

This is like using donkey caravan to establish rules for running modern trains, ships, and airplanes.

that's why it is important for Muftis to stick to their Hujras and let the modern financial experts to innovate and improve the current system.

If you follow Mufti logic, you will say this after every air-disaster!

------ Go back and start riding the donkeys, donkeys are safe, donkey hamara awaay e awaay!

However what we need is to accept the current system the way it is and use a selection of the products that match with our financial well being and our risk tolerance.

If you don't like earning interest, put your money in the no-interest account.

If you want to do profit-loss sharing, then go invest in stocks.

But do not commit fraud and dhoka bazi by mis-labeling a regular product and selling it as "Islamic product".

Do not tell people to become a financially illiterate donkey.

Got it?

can you please be more specific about "Tribal Finance System" existed 1400 years a go, who introduced it and who practiced it, the evil of that system and the benefit ( if any)? and if the system had any fundamentals, then what were they?

I would really appreciate if you can explain banking/finance system of the modern world, how does it work and who benefits from it and who practices it most, what are the fundamentals of this system...

Please try to keep it short and try not to use abusive language...

[Maverick_27]

@burqaposhx

your Mufti sahiban cannot use the primitive tribal cultural aspects and critique the banks.

man u have no idea what u r talking about. first get some knowledge and then talk about the subject.

[Ansoon]

Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

so burqaposhx ... tell me what will be ur proposal for implementing something better than what Mufti has to offer. He offered his opinion.. now you are entitled to yours but please do enlighten us on what are your views on "Islamic banking" or do you think that the "western banking" is still the best thing since slice bread?

[burqaposhx]

@hanibal

....try not to use abusive language...

So challenging a Maulana's backward stone age ideals is now "abusive".

Shabash.

Typical of Jihadis. When they run out of intelligent answers then they start accusing others of abuse/blasphemy etc. etc.

@hanibal

can you please be more specific about "Tribal Finance System" existed 1400 years a go, who introduced it and who practiced it, the evil of that system and the benefit ( if any)? and if the system had any fundamentals, then what were they? .....

Bhai,

You don't need a PhD thesis on the life and death of primitive tribals.

Just go look at any primitive tree dwelling culture of today and figure it out. What's so difficult to see that

--- humans back then rode donkeys,
--- Sh@t in open fields

And when
-----it came to financial transactions, used barter trade and ashrafis.

If someone had extra money, he/she stored under the mattress, filled clay pots and put them under ground or in the house walls.

There were NO frigging banks or insurance companies. If your caravan got looted, then you lost everything. No insurance money was given to you for compensating your losses.

Fast forward to 21st century.

1. Humans do not travel on donkeys (not in civilized societies, unless it is fun thing to do).

2. Humans do not $hit in open fields (exceptions are the tribal societies dominated by Africans, middle eastern and some asian regions).

3. We do not trade using Ashrafis. There 100s of new financial instruments that control the ebb and flow of the money across individuals and companies and countries.

4. Financial system is now a global system and you stay out of it only on your own peril. Sure you can have few little laws of your own in your countries but only at the cost of being left behind.

Otherwise you have to be fully integrated in the global financial network and you will live and die with that GFN.

But it won't make sense to the supporters of primitive tribal lifestyle. Because they still want to live in caves, trade using ashrafis, and sleep on a pile of dung heap, and $hit in the open field.

Nothing new. Pagans like Abu Jahil and medieval Christians would do exactly the same thing as the modern day Islamists. ie. utterly refuse to change and adapt, utterly refuse to wake up and smell the coffee. Sadly.

[cricketplaya]

Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

Again more gibberish and of donkeys.

Burqa, when you have some intelligent, well thought out, sensible argument to present then post. Why you keep on ridiculing yourself is beyond me. Well keep at it, shows your true character + entertaining.

[firenze]

@burqaposhx

So challenging a Maulana’s backward stone age ideals is now “abusive”.

Shabash.

Typical of Jihadis. When they run out of intelligent answers then they start accusing others of abuse/blasphemy etc. etc.

Bhai,

You don’t need a PhD thesis on the life and death of primitive tribals.

**Just go look at any primitive tree dwelling culture of today and figure it out. What’s so difficult to see that

— humans back then rode donkeys,
— Sh@t in open fields

And when
-----it came to financial transactions, used barter trade and ashrafis.

If someone had extra money, he/she stored under the mattress, filled clay pots and put them under ground or in the house walls.

There were NO frigging banks or insurance companies. If your caravan got looted, then you lost everything. No insurance money was given to you for compensating your losses.

Fast forward to 21st century.

1. Humans do not travel on donkeys (not in civilized societies, unless it is fun thing to do).

2. Humans do not $hit in open fields (exceptions are the tribal societies dominated by Africans, middle eastern and some asian regions).

3. We do not trade using Ashrafis. There 100s of new financial instruments that control the ebb and flow of the money across individuals and companies and countries.

4. Financial system is now a global system and you stay out of it only on your own peril. Sure you can have few little laws of your own in your countries but only at the cost of being left behind.

Otherwise you have to be fully integrated in the global financial network and you will live and die with that GFN.

But it won’t make sense to the supporters of primitive tribal lifestyle. Because they still want to live in caves, trade using ashrafis, and sleep on a pile of dung heap, and $hit in the open field. **

Nothing new. Pagans like Abu Jahil and medieval Christians would do exactly the same thing as the modern day Islamists. ie. utterly refuse to change and adapt, utterly refuse to wake up and smell the coffee. Sadly.

classy man.. love it..

[Ansoon]

Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

@ burqaposhx you haven't answered my question .. please janab enlighten us with your views on islamic finance.

[Mostar95]

Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

I appreciate his efforts. But the end results is very frustrating. Meezan Bank has been set up on the principle set by him. Whoever has taken loan from this bank was in a great trouble. At least I know 3 persons. One of ex colleagues soon reverted to HBFC for his house loan.

[hanibal]

@burqaposhx

So challenging a Maulana's backward stone age ideals is now "abusive".

Shabash.

Typical of Jihadis. When they run out of intelligent answers then they start accusing others of abuse/blasphemy etc. etc.

Bhai,

You don't need a PhD thesis on the life and death of primitive tribals.

Just go look at any primitive tree dwelling culture of today and figure it out. What's so difficult to see that

--- humans back then rode donkeys, --- Sh@t in open fields

And when -----it came to financial transactions, used barter trade and ashrafis.

If someone had extra money, he/she stored under the mattress, filled clay pots and put them under ground or in the house walls.

There were NO frigging banks or insurance companies. If your caravan got looted, then you lost everything. No insurance money was given to you for compensating your losses.

Fast forward to 21st century.

1. Humans do not travel on donkeys (not in civilized societies, unless it is fun thing to do).

2. Humans do not $hit in open fields (exceptions are the tribal societies dominated by Africans, middle eastern and some asian regions).

3. We do not trade using Ashrafis. There 100s of new financial instruments that control the ebb and flow of the money across individuals and companies and countries.

4. Financial system is now a global system and you stay out of it only on your own peril. Sure you can have few little laws of your own in your countries but only at the cost of being left behind.

Otherwise you have to be fully integrated in the global financial network and you will live and die with that GFN.

But it won't make sense to the supporters of primitive tribal lifestyle. Because they still want to live in caves, trade using ashrafis, and sleep on a pile of dung heap, and $hit in the open field.

Nothing new. Pagans like Abu Jahil and medieval Christians would do exactly the same thing as the modern day Islamists. ie. utterly refuse to change and adapt, utterly refuse to wake up and smell the coffee. Sadly.

I asked specific questions and particularly asked you to refrain from using abusive language, but i guess you can't help it,

I ask you again and this would be last time as i have observed that you normally try not to ( or maybe you have no idea what to say) answer the questions on the topic you pretend to have command, in doing so, i'll further refine my questions so that you can easily understand and at least try to answer them

1) Who founded Islamic Financial System 1400 years ago? Abu Jahal or somebody else?

2) What are the basis of Islamic Financial System? I am not asking about the practice just the basis ( to person with some knowledge, the same question would be, how Islamic financial system benefits and harms the society, but i guess you would not be able to answer it)

3) How old the current conventional banking system ?

4) who founded current conventional banking system? what are the basis of conventional banking system ( same here i wanted to have a lengthy discussion harm and benefit of this system but i guess you don't have understanding to discuss this at length)

Above questions are very basic, all students and persons who have 0.1% interest in economy and finance would be able to answer it... i don't know if you can or not... as i was trying to have a debate at much advance level but from your answer above, i don't think it is possible ( hope i am wrong)

Again please try not to use the language you cannot use in ur home...

[burqaposhx]

... refrain from using abusive language, ....

Quote me where I personally abused you or your family?

Getting challenged on your falsehood is not abusive. Perhaps it rattles your cage, but it is up to you to not show up in the kitchen if you can't stand the heat.

You keep on repeating like little kids, questions that sounds big, but they are tiny tiny intellectually.

You want to have Ali Bab Chalees Chor story on Islamic financial system. There ain't none.

Financial systems are just that. Financial system. There is nothing religious about it. It is just a modern day method to meet the need for exchanging money for goods or services.

And if you feel the urge to tell us about some sooper dooper financial system from 1400 years ago then tell us that people had anything more than barter trade and ashrafis. Either put up or ......... up.

Let me try to explain to you with a different set of examples.
When you sat in your plane to immigrate to the West, the plane wasn't Islamic or Christian. It was just a plane. It is just used to meet one of the modern day need for travel.

After immigrating to the west, you sat on a toilet. And that is just a toilet. There is nothing Islamic or Christian about it. It is used simply to meet a modern day need to do an important "business", unless you want to go out in the open in a public place and use that place to do the "business".

You cannot put burqa or Hijab on a bank. Because it DID NOT exist 1400 years ago and there was NO fing equivalent of this important institution back then. Unless you have recorded some video of those 1400 ago banks, then show us.

FYI. Modern day place called bank is where people "willingly" do financial transactions only of specific types.

Stock exchanges are another place to exchange money for goods (or stocks).

Unless you get this Islamism out of your head, you won't understand this world.

Religion can not and should not be used to define system that were developed long after the religion came into being.

I hope you got this time without shouting about or $hiting about "so called abuse"

And if not, May Allah swt help you.

[kakaballi]

Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

So Burqa believes in either of the following:

1. Quran does not give guidance on how to conduct transactions with your labour, emoployess, buyers, suppliers, lenders and borrowers, instructions to government on equitable distribution of wealth, taxation and welfare?

2. Quran is outdated and irrelevant (nauzubillah) in this 'modern world'.

Which one, please?

[Remember, there are NO explicit instructions in Quran about toilet seats or flying in a plane]

[firenze]

So Burqa believes in either of the following:

1. Quran does not give guidance on how to conduct transactions with your labour, emoployess, buyers, suppliers, lenders and borrowers, instructions to government on equitable distribution of wealth, taxation and welfare?

2. Quran is outdated and irrelevant (nauzubillah) in this 'modern world'.

Which one, please?

[Remember, there are NO explicit instructions in Quran about toilet seats or flying in a plane]

Question: When Molana Taqi Usmani make Interest halal, did he consult Quran, Haadith or the daig of halwa?

[hanibal]

Quote me where I personally abused you or your family?

Getting challenged on your falsehood is not abusive. Perhaps it rattles your cage, but it is up to you to not show up in the kitchen if you can't stand the heat.

You keep on repeating like little kids, questions that sounds big, but they are tiny tiny intellectually.

You want to have Ali Bab Chalees Chor story on Islamic financial system. There ain't none.

Financial systems are just that. Financial system. There is nothing religious about it. It is just a modern day method to meet the need for exchanging money for goods or services.

And if you feel the urge to tell us about some sooper dooper financial system from 1400 years ago then tell us that people had anything more than barter trade and ashrafis. Either put up or ......... up.

Let me try to explain to you with a different set of examples. When you sat in your plane to immigrate to the West, the plane wasn't Islamic or Christian. It was just a plane. It is just used to meet one of the modern day need for travel.

After immigrating to the west, you sat on a toilet. And that is just a toilet. There is nothing Islamic or Christian about it. It is used simply to meet a modern day need to do an important "business", unless you want to go out in the open in a public place and use that place to do the "business".

You cannot put burqa or Hijab on a bank. Because it DID NOT exist 1400 years ago and there was NO fing equivalent of this important institution back then. Unless you have recorded some video of those 1400 ago banks, then show us.

FYI. Modern day place called bank is where people "willingly" do financial transactions only of specific types.

Stock exchanges are another place to exchange money for goods (or stocks).

Unless you get this Islamism out of your head, you won't understand this world.

Religion can not and should not be used to define system that were developed long after the religion came into being.

I hope you got this time without shouting about or $hiting about "so called abuse"

And if not, May Allah swt help you.

Abusing me or my family is not issue, using word like **** is considered bad, i don't if it is common in your household

I was pretty sure that you have no idea how financial systems work nor does any idea how they evolved over the period of time, how conventional and Islamic financial system have adopted the changes in the society... discussing financial system with a guy like you who sees plane and finance as same is equal to BHAINS KAY AGAY BEEN BAJANA

I know you hate islam and you hate muslims, your hatred has no logic nor does your posts have made ever... you are product of hate and that have made you worse human than extremist elements in our or other societies..

This would be my last reply to you in this post as i have learned from your reply that your knowledge is as good as my german and i don't even know that how many alphabets are there in german language.

[firenze]

@hanibal

I know you hate islam and you hate muslims