Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial System

Society Business and Career
81

Neem hakeem, Kharta Jaan
Neem Mullah, khatra Iman

What’s wrong with sticking to masjid?

Is serving masjid somehow inferior to other professions?

This reminds of me of Iqbal and here is my take on his famous verses!

Mufti jo masjid main daakhil hua kabhi,
to wahan say aani lagay sada
Tera dil to hai banker ashna
Tujhay kiy milay ga mehrab main

The problem with Paks is that they think devoting full time to Masjid and spirituality is trivial, and thus they have to use the Masjid and Mullah both for other jobs like politics, global affairs, banking, halwa, basant, and bakara.

thus in the end, for poor Maulanas,

— Na idhar kay rahay, na udhar kay banay
— Na Khuda he Mila, aur duniya bhi ga-ee

And the result is obvious. That a prosperous Pakistan has been turned into pauper all thanks to corruption of mosque, Mullah and every other institution.

sadly!

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

^ :yawn:

83

Yes, and yet this rocket science is not understood by economics scholars from Harvard (Islamic Finance Project), UK (School of Government & International Affairs : Durham Islamic Finance Programme - Durham University), Italy (UNM Today: Economist Suggests Islamic Finance as Solution to Economic Crisis) or Shariah scholars in Malaysia (IIiBF | IIUM Institute of Islamic Banking and Finance - Home).

It is very naive to restrict Islamic economics to the notion of ‘interest-free’ finance. The following article is very similar to Mufti Taqi Usmani’s article, and the author does not have ‘Mufti’ in her name.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/csgr/events/conferences/conference2007/papers/rethel.pdf

I agree with you that many ‘Islamic Products’ in market today are still based on interest. I have repeated that a few times before as well. This is not where I disagree with you. The whole system is in embryonic stage as of now and we need to give our input to bring it back to the right track.

Where I disagree is the notion that;

  1. there is nothing called Islamic Finance/Economics/Banking
  2. religion has nothing to do with economic life of people
  3. we can write-off someone who has ‘Mufti’ in his name as econ-ignorant
  4. anything that interfaces with conventional banking is haram

There is even a notion of ‘Islamic Accounting’ and an excerpt here from an article that appeared in one of the top accounting research journals summarizes what I am (and perhaps you too are) trying to say:
*
“In Summary Islamic banking and accounting need to build more on Islamic teachings of holism, justice and importance of knowledge in order to broaden their social agenda and realize their ethical claims. They also need to engage, cooperate and communicate with other religious and non-religious initiatives and critical theorization seeking social justice and community empowerment.”*

84

ok lets be specific what problem and dhokhay bazi u see in the Modaraba and Musharika finanece.

man try to be realistic and stop living in the UTOPIA. traditional banking has a history of more than 400 year and the islamic banking and fianace is in the nascent stage with a history of only 30 to 40 years. as a matter of principle always “like to like comparison” rule apply.

existing conventional banking system has its weakness too thats y banks are switching from Basel 1 to Basel 2 model for Minimum Capital Requirement. For Internal Control they are implementing COSO.

i have followed this thread and what i have noticed here that u r arguing for the sake of arguement without ne indepth knowledge of banking and finance. As far as Islamic banking is concerned ur knowlege is just above zero. ur primary focus is to insult the scholar.
further u r failed to provide any healthy input to point out the real weakness in the current islamic banking system and how we can eradicate those weaknesses.

i m sorry to say ur comments here make me irritate sometime and few of them makes me laugh coz u r behaving like a person who is talking about a subject about which he literally knows nothing.

Despite weakness the current islamic banking products do ensure that the financing is made for the acquistion of the asset and to do business rather than to earn spread.

here are few links u may find useful to know about the “ABC” of islamic banking and finance.

Meezan Bank
http://www.meezanbank.com/gib_toc.aspx

regards

85

That's the problem when you mix religion with real world issues.

Anyone who challenges even the side dealing with real world, could potentially and mischievously be accused of "insulting a scholar" or worse blasphemy.

This is what mideval Christians and pagans used to do. That anyone who wanted to challenge the religious orthodoxy was accused of "insulting the so-called scholar" and then put to death.

It is clear that many Islamists today are following the ways of medieval Christians and pagans and in the process shut down using talibotic extremism against anyone who has a different opinion.

The biggest weakness is that it is clearly a fraud in the name of our beautiful religion. what more do you need? A wahi?

86

Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

Our beautiful religion is a complete way of life including instructions on our economic and political life.

87

Very well said.
But secularists like Burqa are trying to distort it. May Allah guide those people.

88

And yes Allah maaf kuray, we the Pak educated elite ever use our brains, Why? anyway? There are tones of 2-bit Mualans and Muftis who are ready to
type up

"complete way of life including instruction on our economic and politics".

Even when that means living in caves and traveling by camels. Complete way of life for sure.

Shbash.

Anyways!

We discussed the affair to the fullest extent by now.

If some of you want to be duped by the dhoka bazi oops Islamic financing. Well it is your choice. So continue doing it.

And

May Allah give everyone the right path and especially the power to use their brains instead of relying on hujra nashin Maulans.

Amin.

That's all folks.

89

.

90

There are no arguments abt Mufti Taqi Usmani's knowledge of Islamic procedures for handling finances. He is one of the best out there.

I have a question thou in fact it's more of a thought should I listen to wat he says when I see him doing the opposite totally for himself? :D

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

^ Could you be more specific? Should be interesting!

92

I had the privilege of working with him for around 2-3 years for Meezan. What ever I know abt Islamic Banking, it's credit goes to him. He explains ev thing in a very logical way which make sense even if you don't take Islam into consideration.

On the other side he and his sons have and use credit cards with all major financial institutions, and due to their presence in the shariah boards of all the major banks they also enjoy higher limits on them. A major part of their salary goes to fixed deposit accounts/money mutual funds/other high yielding instruments. As they live in dar-al-uloom they don't have to even worry about paying rent or mortgage still they have taken regular property mortgages from banks where they work because the rates are lower for the employees ( even if they can get the same deal under musharka).

I also worked with Junaid Jamshed and his brother for Standard Chartered's IB products in Pakistan. He was the shariah adviser. The % of profit margin Junaid earns on his lawns and kurtas is just absurd and can't be justified.

I know that every one is responsible for their own actions and I should not consider their personal activities while taking my decisions. Any how back to the topic the fundamentals of IB are amazing but the way they are being implemented is a different story. Islam tells us exactly how to handle finances in a practical way which will 100% work if they are implemented as they are suppose to.

I switched from conventional banking (if their is such a term) to Islamic Banking because my dad never liked me working for a bank due to obvious interest reasons (He invests all his money in property and never had a bank account). @ that time IB was starting in Pakistan and I considered it as a life time chance to learn abt it. I was quite disappointed as the way it turned out after 2-3 years. Your products don't turn islamic by just changing the name of interest/riba to some other fancy arabic term. The thing which pisses me off personally is that in conventional banking all consumers know that this is interest based and they take their decisions willingly. In Islamic banking (in Pakistan, I don't have much idea abt IB practices in other countries) the unaware consumers put their trust in the bank and think that they are taking the shariah's prescribed path. I am not sure the gun-nah of this will be on whose head, and I didn't wanted to take the responsibility of it so I just left the banking industry :$

Now a days Islamic Banking seems only a catchy term to tap into the potential of a niche market of muslim consumers.

93

Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

^ yes, pretty much true. The products that we have are mosly similar to conventional banking in substance and differing in form only. It is similar to many of our religious rituals where we stick to the principles in form (the month of Ramazan is now another example of following principles in form only, forgetting substance).

There is a lot of criticism about it in academia and practice (and this thread as well) but we can certainly find solutions to the ills in the current economic system (greed and insane distribution of wealth) in Islamic principles of economics and finance.

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

^ dude your example is wrong, when their is x amount of pig in a chicken, does it still halal ?

Finding solutions is a different thing, but calling Interest with some exotic name and make it halal & shariah compliance is bs !

so say it, it doesn't hurt Molana Taqi Usmani is one big fat liar including all the chamcha's .. making fool out of muslims !

95

Please quote me where I said that the Islamic products being sold are all halal.

96

bibi masla yeh hay we have got nobody who has 6 billion rupees to start a islamic bank that works according to shariah teaching in a true sense.

as far as i know MBL has got no fixed income deposit account. all the rates it annouces is tentative. Even the rates declared by the conventional banks is indicative.

as far credit card is concerned whats harm in it if u dont go for revolving credit.

on the other side management of many islamic banks does not provide the full access of the bank records to the shariah advisor.

beside the deposit holder is not willing to share the loss of the bank ........... we need to change the our mindset if we want to have a banking system based on the guidelines of the shariah.

i m hopeful that we will see improvement in the future as the new generation is interested in the concept of islamic banking as a subject.

what we need good entrepreuer who wants to do business while adhering the shariah principle. further as a deposit holder we need to build a bit of risk apetitie and capacity to bear a loss as well.

97

Islamic banking is a dead horse.

Banking is banking there is nothing Christian, Jewish, or Muslim about it.

Fresh water supply system is another type of system, there is nothing Christian or Muslim about it.

What you are talking here is the ditto copy of the Medieval Christians who used to say that banking is evil and non-Christian and thus the task was given to Jewish minority to take up that trade.

This is not too different from an example where Hindu businessmen in India want to profit from the trade of leather, but most of the Muslims are employed to do the cleaning of cowhides and processing them.

It is time we quit using the medieval Christian thinking about declaring certain aspects of our lives illegal based on some made up religious edict by Muftis who themselves profit from it.

Using religion to make worldly and political gains is strictly forbidden in Islam.
And yet we as educated elite allow this dohoka bazi of Islamic banking system.

you say banking should be profit loss.

Oh bhai are you living in 700 AD?

these days we have different investments products based on the risk.

At the top of the risk are the hedge funds

And the bottom of the risk are the savings accounts.

Banks are used to store the running finances that you need on frequent basis. If you add loss in it, no body will leave money in the banks and instead use their mattress, or in case of desert nomads, use the goat skin to stow away their cash.

Thus following your advice, Pakistanis will end up living in the cave age.

And the outcome of your suggestions would be not too different from TTP goons who also want to push our relatively progressive nation back into stone age.

It is time we quit putting religion into banks and money and cash.

This will allow our maulanas to concentrate on spiritual guidance and forget about rolling in the cash and credit cards.

Thank you.

98

Abay, ye sab gibberish likhni zuroori hai? Just write it straight up that RIBA is a modern thing we should live to deal with it. Just say it!

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

^ riba is not a modern thing, just like prostitution is the oldest business in the world whether you like or not.. so just say it, that fat molana is lying and making fool out of muslims.

p.s i have a savings account in meezan bank.. together in citi/chase & boa - no difference telling ya .. !

100

Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

^ what i mean was this "modern system" burqa boasts about, the basis of it is RIBA. so burqa just say it man riba is ok in modern times...