Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst
^ Congratulations!!! You finally find a sentence you can read!
Now if you have anything more to talk about the article in question, get on with it.
P.S. If you read post #41, you wouldn't have needed to make any more effort anyways.
In the current global environment, you cannot be a 100% true Muslim, but you do strive to be better (if you want to). ..
Yet another factually incorrect statement Kaka Bhai.
You were doing so well, and then suddenly this turn for the worst. Why?
Why are you attaching percentages to the believers?
Who are you? Sitting on the right hand of Allah mian to tell us what is the percentage of our beliefs?
Pathetic!
Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst
^ Bhai, aap ko ungraizi ka masla hai. Main kuch nahee ker sakta iss baray main.
You made a point but the manner you presented was little bit inappropriate. Anyways answer to your question. Most people are not aware about certain things regarding scholar or Alim. To become alim one has to go trough certain courses which includes extensive math, finance and other subject. To become Mufti one has to write thesis just like in PHD. After one become mulana or mufti they gain experience by doing extensive research and gaining actual work experience in thier respective filed. For example, Business graduate would choose to gain experience in finance, management, human resources, accounting or etc. In similar way Scholar choose their respective fields finance, sociology, justice or etc in the light of Quran and Hadith. Mufti Taqi Usmani specialized in Islamic Finances and well known for his work. He is the only one scholar in the world at this giving point who has presented alternative module against interest based economy and banking system. I hope this small and brief explanation answer your question that why do we go to scholar other then prayers.
If you had a heart condition, you won't go to a Maulana to seek advice about the exact procedure to be done on your heart. ----- You will only ask the Maulana for a prayer, that the SURGEON does a good job and you recover well.
If you were designing an aircraft, you won't go to the Maulana to seek advice about the number of engines, or the wing span of the aircraft. ----- You will only ask the Maulana for a prayer that your aircraft desinger does a good job and the aircraft flies well.
If you were designing a MODERN financial system, you won't go to a Maulana to seek advice on the nature of derivatives and banking rules etc. ---- You should only ask the Maulana for a prayer that your bank does well.
However if the Maulan starts badgering you about specific steps of your heart surgery, or forcing a certain wing span on your aircraft, or specific rules in your banking system, then you have to say (politely!).
--- Maulana sahib, I'll send a daig of halwa, so keep quiet please.
You made a point but the manner you presented was little bit inappropriate..........
If I was making a comment on mufti sahib's religious contributions, you could say that the he should not be challenged.
However
.......Mufti Taqi Usmani specialized in Islamic Finances and well known for his work. He is the only one scholar in the world ....
Islamic Finances is a dhoka bazi in the name of our beautiful religion.
Just like "Modern day - Islamic medicine", or "Modern-day Islamic engineering" are dhoka baaz aka deceptive terms
When you are replacing a heart valve, there is nothing Islamic or unIslamic about it. Sure one can ask a Maulana to say a prayer, but that's it.
When you are building a new bridge on Jehlum, or a new dam on Sindh, you do not go look for Islamic-engineer, you go to the West and find the top engineers who KNOW how to build a dam, or a Western trained Pakistani who knows how to build a bridge.
surely one can say that a bridge design by a Western trained engineer, collapsed. But that doesn't mean that EVERY fing bridge built by the Western trained engineers have collapsed,
While our Madrassah trained enigneers have built the bridges that are better than golden gate etc.
That is if you can ever find an engineer who got his degree from Deobund, or Nadwa, or banoria town.
When Dubai wanted to build the tallest structure, they didn't go looking for a Mufti to design their tower, Did they?
Similarly when you want to build or repair your financial systems, you do not look for a Mufti either. You go for someone who is TRAINED in the West about banking and finance.
In fact if ever a Mufti comes by your house and tell you that he can replace your Islamic-heart valve, build an Islamic-bridge for you, or a construct an Islamic-dam, or design an Islamic-1000-story building.
Just tell him!
Mufti sahib, I respect you. Please go back to your Madrassha, and tomorrow Inshallah I'll send a daig of Halwa.
Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst
poshy tera koi haal nahi. when you stop disrespecting our scholars, come back maybe we can have a sensible discussion.
....when you stop disrespecting our scholars, ..
Our scholars, Are you starting a new religion here?
or an Jamat-e-Usmania firqa?
Islamic Finances is a dhoka bazi in the name of our beautiful religion. .
I am arguing with BP in this thread but honest to goodness, I have to agree with him here. if a so called islamic bank is backed up by a regular bank then all the loans of islamic bank are nothing but a regular interest based mortgage wrapped in a islamic wrapper.
Our scholars, Are you starting a new religion here?
or an Jamat-e-Usmania firqa?
uh yeah, our scholars, you are included unless you don't want to be.
I am arguing with BP in this thread but honest to goodness, I have to agree with him here. if a so called islamic bank is backed up by a regular bank then all the loans of islamic bank are nothing but a regular interest based mortgage wrapped in a islamic wrapper.
If my salary comes from a regular interest based system, is it haram?
Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst
If your work is halal and honest then you earned your salary fair and square
Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst
So, TLK, should we stop all the research, experimentation and efforts going into Islamic Banking and Finance since we cannot have a truly Shariah compliant system within the current construct of global finance?
...... should we stop all the research, experimentation and efforts going into Islamic Banking and Finance since we cannot have a truly Shariah compliant system within the current construct of global finance?
You can do all the research in the world that you want.
Just remember one thing.
Do not sell dhoka baaz schemes in the name of Islam.
It is different to "research".
HOWEVER It is
un-ethical and immoral to sell something based on incomplete, nay shoddy research.
Let me give you an example.
You can do all the research on the health- benefits of camel / cow urine.
But
Do not
Sell the camel piss in a bottle and say this is good product, even when your research has been shoddy.
Got it?
So, TLK, should we stop all the research, experimentation and efforts going into Islamic Banking and Finance s*ince we cannot have a truly Shariah compliant system within the current construct of global finance?*
We can have one but that needs to be independent of the conventional banking system. All the rich shiekhs and oil producing Muslim countries can put their resources together and put together an Islamic banking foundation. I know its not going to be easy but can be done. Point is, you cannot label a pig as bakra and make it halal.
We can have one but that needs to be independent of the conventional banking system. All the rich shiekhs and oil producing Muslim countries can put their resources together and put together an Islamic banking foundation. I know its not going to be easy but can be done. Point is, you cannot label a pig as bakra and make it halal.
I am confused now. I can label my salary coming from (and possibly earned through) contemporary financial system as halal but not another product just because it interfaces with the same system?
If I invest, say, 20% stake in a business which is also partially financed by loans from conventional banks and agree to share the profits and losses of the business, I'd consider the returns from the business as halal. Maybe I lack much knowledge of Shariah and/or finance, but to me the bakra and pig analogy is a bit too harsh.
I cannot see as sever a violation of Islamic principles in the Halal Products sold by the banks so as to compare them to 'pig' or consider them not-Halal.
As far as repackaging same (interest based) product as Halal argument is concerned, can we compare it to zabeeha and non-zabeeha meat, where meat of the same bakra becomes halal having gone through a process?
I am confused now. ..
Yes you are. You are clearly comparing apples to oranges.
Hope this helps!
** Your salary is a one time per pay-period flow of money from YOUR BOSS to you.
** Mufti's PIG in bakra skin is "INVESTMENT instrument" from the BANK to you.
** Your BOSS gives you money because you worked X number of hours for him.
** Mufti's PIG bank gives you money because you put your investment money with the BANK, and MUFTI labels it as BAKRA.
How would you feel if you worked 40 hours in a week, and your boss gave you money labeled as "GIFT from BOSS".
Heck no! you earned that money and your BOSS should not mis-label it as GIFT.
Thus as long the product is clearly labeled as to the what it is, then you should be OK.
....Maybe I lack much knowledge of Shariah ..
Who cares if you lack Shariah knowledge.
The problem is that you meray bhai!
Severely lack the knowledge about banking system
And more seriously
refuse to use common sense, because your so-called Islamism is being challenged.
I am confused now. I can label my salary coming from (and possibly earned through) contemporary financial system as halal but not another product just because it interfaces with the same system?
Sood (interest) is sood no matter how you name it. On the other hand, if I am working for General Motors as an engineer, and they pay me the salary from the interest they earned through their financial division, GMAC ... then really my salaray is halal. I really dont see why you are confused here.
wallah .. .deir aye durust aye.. .. :k: ..
Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst
I would have more faith in his comments and arguments if he had gone to a business school at least and attained some know how of how the current business models work. Only then can he identify real flaws and suggest solutions to them. You know, combine his knowledge of deen and duniya. His qualifications are simply religious in nature, and he should stick to that, and make his religious/ethical recommendations on current economic models - sure.
But to give specific advice about what to change economically. Sure, maybe he's super smart and a visionary. And maybe his ideas are worth listening to. But he can't give specific recommendations. Maybe someone in the business field can translate them to reality though.
Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst
^^ Trust me he knows more than we imagine about modern business models. It’s just he’s a religious scholar, somehow we have it in our minds that these scholars should stick to the masjid. Not saying you but in general (as seen on this forum).
Mufti Taqi Usmani’s profile: Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani