Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial System

Society Business and Career
41

Buffet is many good things but not an economist or a banker. I am sure he never claimed to be one.

Most of the Islamic Banking scholars agree that the current Islamic Banking products and services offered by different banks are not 100% Islamic/Halal. Their contention is that even though they do not completely qualify for the strict Islamic interpretations, they still are a steps towards a better system they want to achieve.

I find this stance a bit hypocritical but its better than having nothing at all. Please do not challenge someone's capabilities just because he has a beard.

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Kaka B,

Thank you for an honest analysis. The following comments are not directed against you, instead they are meant to point out issues with the concept of Islamic banking.

Everyone knows that these so called Islamic products are simply the same old banking products that are nicely wrapped in a green raishmee cloth, and peddled by the Mullahs who get bribes in the form of halwa daigs from the banks.

In other words, these so-called Islamic bank products are seriously fraud-infested aka mis-labeled products.

How? How on earth they will make them 100% halal. By pulling more wool on the eyes of those who are summun bukmun to begin with?

So glad that you do! And that's the whole point of criticizing this gang of the so-called "Islamic-banking gurus". They are hypocrites and shamans.

They are no different that quacks in Pakistan who pretend to be medical doctors and then deceive public by prescribing highly potent medicine that in turn kills people instead of saving them.

It is you who say "Do not challenge him because he has a beard".
It is you who say "Do not challenge him because he is an Islamist banker"

For us, his beard doesn't matter, nor does his religion (he could be Christian, Jew, Hindu, agnostic etc and still doesn't matter).

What matters is that he is selling snake oil in the name of Islam.

got it?

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

Islam is not a religion. if you dont know what religion means GOOGLE

Islam is a Deen and Deen is an arabic word meaning “the way of life”.
so when you study the way of life as taught by the quran, sunnat and hadith, you learn about all the aspects of life. Including the financial system.

and if someone still wondering what deen is, this video might help

what is the meaning of the arabic word (deen) - English

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

The arrogance in this thread speaks volumes of today's so-called educated elite.

Martin Luther King said it best: "Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."

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If he is selling the same thing as old banking products (and i agree with this statement), it cannot be snake oil, can it?

BTW, Pakistan does need to sell those mil-labeled products to attract capital from Middle-East which is currently going to these 'islamic-products' set up by major banks in the west. This is my personal opinion.

But again, if you DO read the article, it is not selling those products. Just suggesting a few ways to improve CURRENT system and some of those suggestions have come from other well respected economists as well.

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Yes you are correct. That people getting mis-labeled products are getting something real and not just dirt and bricks filled bags marked as money.

However the term "snake oil" was used to highight the mis-labeing, dis-honesty.

Hope that clarifies it.

Capital will come to Pakistan when the "capitalists" (aka people who control the capital, or have money) will feel safe in Pak.

If we shoot every gora or a rich foreigner in Karachi or Lahore, then they will continue skipping a stop here, and instead head out to more fun places such as Mumbai, Bangaloru, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Dubai, Singapore, or Seol.

thus the issue is not that we should have mis-labeled Islamist products in Pak,

Instead as a society, if we have respect and honesty towards other people.

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

hmmmm how many gorras have been killed in pakistan ? hmmm just wondering

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I think poshy got it wrong, I believe he meant if we let the gora controlled drones which kill thousands of poor Pakistani citizens, then we have no chance of prosperity.

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Instead of asking these silly questions, why don't you ponder as to why Pakistan is not the travel destination for US/EU businessmen (until some of them are forced by their governments and then Pak government provides armed escort).

Instead of bickering, just think bhai. Just think!

50

tu yaara.. aap explain kar do.. what mufti is saying on Libor rate? or he just says we will just get to it when the true Islamic Monarachey will establish around the world.. until that.. enjoy the islamic checking accounts. .yeh righh.. ehh ?

51

So, you DO know something! Libor rate!!!! and hence you can question a person's expertise in economics/banking!

52

no no no, i want to know how many goras have been killed in pakistan so i can understand how risky it is for gora business men to come here and invest. This is a very valid question.

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

^ Goras come to Pakistan to kill, not to get killed.

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Kaka Bhai,

Well if you don't accept businessman goras, and instead create instability in the world, then the other category of goras with boots aka faujis will come.

Choice is yours.

Just ask the warlrods of that gad awful place called Islamist Jannat of Awghanistan.

And lafanter bahi,

don't be chidish. We in Pak have been burning down KFCs, and embassies, and consulates for a long long time now.

And if you keep on being childish, then there won't be a difference between you and CM bhai.

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

The warlords in Afghanistan are still happy cuz they are still thriving while guantanamo bay is full of afghan farmers.

Back to the topic. If international investors can invest in telecom and banking in Pakistan, why not deposit a few dinars in (so called) Islamic products we can/should offer?

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Re: Mufti Taqi Usmani: Key Islamic Principles for Reforming the Global Financial Syst

^ which part you didn't get.. ?

the foundation of Islamic checking/savings .. is based on Interest, inter-bank lending (again interest) .. libor/fbr (again interest) .. the international transcations (again interest) .. clearing houses (interest) swift (interest) ...

so what's the difference by depositing in so-called islamic bank or ordinary bank?

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Islamic products are pennies on the dollar when it comes to the net investment flow in the world.

By overemphasizing Islam, we in fact are making Pakistan equivalent to the despots of Middle East.

And the result is obvious.

We are close to 200 million people that is roughly 75% of the US population.
Compared to France and Germany we are double if not more.
And we have the same market size as that of Japan but much much more resources.

And yet, thanks to our myopic tendencies in the financial sector, and industrial sector, we are under 1% of the economic activity compared to the leading countries.

The fault squarely lies with us the educated elite who willingly refuse to rid the shackles of old-dilapidated thinking stuck somewhere between 1 hijiri and 100 hijri.

A man is known by the company he keeps, and we are familiar with this adage.

Here is a slight twist on that.

A man is rich by the vision he keeps

----(and the vision of the type of people he surrounds himself with).

Sad isn't it? that we have to compete on the world stage where the race is on with formula 1, and yet

We refuse to rid ourselves from the use of camels and donkeys.

58

Your arguments are plain stupid now.

I just proposed that Pakistani banks should develop and offer 'so called' Islamic products to the middle east rich, which is what Citibank and Standard Chartered and many other western banks are doing, and get a little share of the 'Islamic Products'. Malaysia did that successfully. You are opposing that just because it has 'Islamic' in its name.

As far as investment is concerned, I did tell you that they don't care much about the (non-existent) 'tribal mindset' you beat all the time about. They are much more smarter and invest in sectors they think would grow in Pakistan. Western and middle eastern investors did invest heavily in telecom and financial sector here. Even KFC and McDonald's, as you mentioned, keep on expanding their business in Pakistan even after a few incidents of torching.

You need to keep to what is being discussed instead of copy-pasting the same stuff in every thread.

P.S. We have a lot of faults and mostly because we stopped doing what is so great about Islam and what our elders taught us during the years you mentioned. The nations in the West did take up those great principles (equality, justice, hard-word, education and respect) and hence the development.

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In the current global environment, you cannot be a 100% true Muslim, but you do strive to be better (if you want to).

Same is the case with Islamic Finance and Banking. We cannot have a 100% fully Shariah compliant products but we can always strive to get there.

I agree with you that current products are not 100% Islamic. Not even 50%, maybe 10%. Two things come out of it:

  1. Isn't something better than nothing?
  2. Should we just stop trying to improve?

Praying once a week is still better than never praying, in my opinion. And one should not just stop striving to be better because he/she cannot be perfect.

P.S. In my personal opinion, based on limited knowledge of Islam and Finance, 'interest' as we have today is not equivalent to 'ribah' and there is nothing wrong with having paper money.

60

Thank you, put the bold red words into the brains of Islamic banks too .. they are not 100% shariah compliant...