Re: Muawiyya-why not
Ok my bad..
Re: Muawiyya-why not
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Wasn't there eventually peace between Muawiyah and Ali.
Didn't Caliph Ali actually ended up fighting the kharijites (who were against his peace deal with Muawiyah)?
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For Sunni Muslims at least, it is not allowed to discuss or dwell in the above issue as far as the Hanafi Madhab is concerned. See Tarikh e Khulafa by Syedina Jalal ud-Din Suyuti raziAllahu anhu a book available everywhere in Pakistan.
Re: Muawiyya-why not
dwelling in the past to create controversy and disunity amongst muslims and malign the blessed companions is indeed unacceptable but I never heard that discussing historical facts as mentioned above is forbidden.
Re: Muawiyya-why not
We need to know our history as the West is in full swing trying to distort it and present Islam as some dogmatic, heathen religion!
Re: Muawiyya-why not
Precisely any one should visit answering islam.org or .com to see how even the most authentic events are distorted and quotes taken out of context to present the Fitnah as a pure power struggle with no religious connection.
Islam is blessed with the fact that apart from the Quran even our Hadith traditions are by and large authentic even the narrators are historical figures and ahadith can be verified from different sources which other religion has a better way of documentation?yet muslims are called ignorant today why?,it is upto the muslims to surf through them and reach their own conclusions various scholars have in the past discussed islamic history in great detail they have come to different conclusions naturely but these works are frequently overlooked as they will create disunity amongst the muslims,that is a weak argument IMHO objectively reading the authentic sources and coming to your own conclusion is much better.Islamic history is not a article of faith if our opinions differ on this these should be political rather than religious differences.
Re: Muawiyya-why not
BHaiyon tay behno
The thread was NOT about who was on the right path among the two great sahbah 
any way any one wanting to get a detailed authentic account of * Mushjiraat e sahbah * should read Moulana Taqi usmanis book on the issue-* Hadrat Muaviyah aur tareekhi haqiiq * ( i think this is the name )
2- I have noted that most of our posters in this thread are not adding with sahbah- This should not be done- atleast it should be evident from our posts that we are discussing some pious personlity who were given this title by ALLAH in quran -
The pupose of the thread was to show that shiaz not using the names of sahbah karam are at fault- OUr pious buzurgs - who shiaz claims to be thier imam - have used these names to show how much they loved these personlaities- The purpose is fulfiled alhumdolilah-nothing more to discuss at the moment-
Mamooli-
Yes these narrators were different personlities with the same name-
Captain 1-
Very good point-
Re: Muawiyya-why not
Re: Muawiyya-why not
Yun khushi khushi thread close howa-
Happy ending
Re: Muawiyya-why not
its seems like u saw what you WANTED to see in this thread. many posts have answered saying that naming a person after usman or umer in that era did not necessarily indicate love or hate…it was just a common name. and the reason for shias not naming their kids after the sahabas is only a personal choice (out of respect for imams ) its a CULTURAL thing not a LAW. no shia believes they will go to hell for naming their son umer.
as far as the imam’s love for particular sahabas is concerned…i hardly think naming child umer usman is of much value in determining love…There are various sources and accounts that indicate their dislike towards some sahabas.
again NO ONE is asking YOU to respect a certain PERSON. as long as both groups respect the last prophet and GOD the same way…why is dislike towards a couple of sahabas such a cause of worry for you? neither abu bakr nor hussain’s names are mentioned in the quran.
Re: Muawiyya-why not
It amuses me that you are having a good time for having such an assumption.
again
Re: Muawiyya-why not
^ oh, that was for Bao bihari who declared his victory :)
Re: Muawiyya-why not
A lots of new things I learned in this thread. Thanks both Shias and Sunnis for sharing the info.
As I see it after reading the details, the ahle-bait after all that what the first three Khalifa did with them (as per Shia books written after all of their 12 Imams) and later on Karbala’s incident must have made these Sahaba biggest enemies of them. So when they repeatedly used names Mohammed, Ali, Hussain and Hussain in sons and grandson’s names, why they needed to use Umer and Usman in the family???
Why no German or other European has named their kidz Hitler after WWII? NONE I believe, specially the Germans who were against Nazism. And I believe Hitler was used before Adolf in Germany.
The biggest example in Islam is Yazid. As Captain1 said, no Muslim in his right mind will name his kid Yazid as he is seen as the biggest culprit of division of Ummah and caused grief and pain to the family of Prophet :saw: And keep this in mind, Yazid was a very famous cultural name of that time, but still its popularity as new born’s name dropped like a stone. WHY???
On the same token why ahle-bait will name their shehzaaday after Umer, Usman or AbuBakar specially when they are direct enemies and biggest evil (as per your books) and they have plenty of other names to choose from.
My conclusion is that these ahle-bait were innocent and has said or done nothing as Shia books claims. Most of them were highest scholars of their times and hundreds and thousands of Sunnis have got their teachings from them. They lived open and clear lives (unlike Shias claims of Taqqiyyah and leading the underground Rafidi movement) and they served Islam and loved humanity. They named after Khulfae Rasheedin since they had no qualms for these people and Sunnis in general.
Re: Muawiyya-why not
you guys are assuming that these children were named after these personalities. Im sure there were plenty of people named as such, because these were pretty much common names of the time. Hence the reason, the names are not forbidden for shias either. Why people chose not to, is due to the political nature of the sunni/shia rift and mass oppression of shias which caused nothing but resentment.
Still, bottome line is, its a personal choice. So what some body wishes to name their kids is not really anyones elses business. There are bigger things out there, to worry about, then picking out petty issues, like names?
Re: Muawiyya-why not
Ma Mooli, read the points placed in front of you to think about. Ready the examples of Yazid and Hitler and comment. If the naming kidz not a big issue, then why Shias don't have names Umer, Usman or AbuBakr today? If its political tension as you described then I must say this tension was created way after those Imams (who are our Imams as well and are highly respectfull) and the taqqiyyah allegations on those innocent souls is fabricated.
Re: Muawiyya-why not
smooth_guy,
Mashallah excellent posts your really hit the nail on the head.But may I add that the names of the first three Pious caliphs(R.A) should not be associated with Muawiyah.There is absolutely no comparison between their rule and the decadent reign of Muawiyah.
Re: Muawiyya-why not
Das Reich-
Please read Moulana Taqi usmanis book on hadrat Muaviyah before saying some thing- We are not here to judge what was done some thousand year ago and specialy when facts and Lies are mixed together-
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oh, that was for Bao bihari who declared his victory
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Zero1- If you say so==== One more reason to smile :)
Smooth Guy-
Yaar very good post-Jazakallah
Re: Muawiyya-why not
smooth guy: Do you know the son of Bibi Umme Salma was also called Umar? He fought along side Imam Ali and was appointed by him as the gov of bahrain. Also, Imam Ali stated his child Uthman was named after Uthman bin Nat'eoon, and there were plenty of prominent and famous Abu Bakrs around. Hence theres no evidence to suggest the children were named after these very personalities. Although it may seem like it to us, the names were all too common to assume that just one person defined it all by themselves.
Re: Muawiyya-why not
**Sis Ma Mooli ** 
– It is not matter of assumption that Hz. Ali, Hz. Hassan and Hz. Hussein [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them] named their children after these noble personalities [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them].
The reason for Hz. Ali, Hz. Hassan and Hz. Hussein [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them] to name their children after the first three Khaleefs [May Allah (swt) be pleased with] is very specific.
According to Shia beliefs:
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Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) stole Hz. Ali (ra)'s right to Khilafaat.
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Hz. Umar (ra) struck Lady Fatimah al Zuhrah (ra) breaking her ribs - she aborted the child she was carrying – [Mohsin - I believe -] and the injuries sustained led to her premature death.
Just keeping the above two incidences in mind - no sane person is going to name his children with the names of such persons however common their names be.
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Do you think Hz. Ali (ra) will use the names of those “who stole his God-given right to be the first Khaleef” & and struck his beloved wife causing her to abort (his)/her unborn child and injuries sustained leading to her own premature death?
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For the same reasons, do you seriously think that Hz. Hassan and Hz. Hussein (raa) use the same names for their own children?
According to Shias about four Sahabah (raa) of Rasool Allah (saw) did not renegade from Islam after the demise of the Prophet (saw) and they are Hz. Salman, Hz. Blilal, Hz. Miqdad and Hz. Abu Dharr [raa].
Isn’t it strange that Hz. Ali, Hz. Hassan and Hz. Hussein [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them] opted for the names of first three noble khaleefs (raa) than for those who the Shia consider to be the most loyal for cause of Ahlul Bayt according to Shia narrations.
There is something amiss here. If you were to read about the names of shia hadith narrators, you will be surprised to find Shia names likes Yazid, Muawiyah too.
It is only after the Safavids took power in Iran [before that Iran was 80% Sunni country] did Shias disassociate themselves from these names. I have also read that many companions of ‘Shia’ Imams had names like Muawiyah and Yazid.
And this in not a petty issue. Maybe for last 600 -700 years Shias have consciously avoided the names; whereas Hz. Ali, Hz. Hassan and Hz. Hussein [raa] had no qualms about using those names.
Isn’t it better to follow the example and deeds of Hz. Ali, Hz. Hassan and Hz. Hussein [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them] than to the commands of later day Shias scholars?
Choice is yours.