I was listening to guy on Pal talk the other day who claimed that names of many * rawis * in hadith chains in shia hadith books like asool e kafi is muawiya-
Stemming from this question- i have another question that i have quoted many references during my previous debates with shia guppies here that why many of shia imams named thier children after Khulfah e Rashideen like Hadrat abu bakr:razi: , hadrat usman:razi: and Hadrat Umer:razi: .
Now my questions are
1-Is this claim true
2-If yes were these guys shia
3-If yes why shias do not name their sons muawiyah/ usman/abu bakr/umer
Am i clear enough—
The thread is just for informational purposes and i request any sane 12er friend to answer these queries-This will help me understand many things
I've never read Usool e kafi so I cant comment on the earlier question.
The second is much easier. We Muslims name our children after Islamic figures we respect and love, however, at that time names like Abu Bakr or Usman or Ali or Muhammad werent Islamic names, they were cultural names reflecting the style of names popular in Arabia, and not really Islamic names yet. Arguing that the names of his children were infact tied to that personality and not arabic traditions of that time is not based on any evidence.
Regarding the name Muawiyah I can only say that it is probably because of siffin and the Fitnah(actually I never heard of someone named muawiya in pakistan shia or sunni)
Even after few hundred years these names were cultural arabic names then all of sudden arab shias and others stopped naming after them. they were no more a cultural name,
I think what he is saying is that the Imams of Shia named their children after the first three Pious caliphs but this practice was not continued by shias later…
again, your mistake lies in suggesting that those names were names taken after the sahaba. that is the case now, but at that time, there were many Usmans and Alis and Muhammads, and none of them had any nisbat with the other.
a few hundred years is nothing, I know a couple of Tariqs who are shias (because of the popularity of the name of Tariq in Pakistan) but Tariq is not a respected figure according to the shia version of history.
imams naming their kids after sahaba does not show that they were happy with the sahabas. maybe the thought of not naming after one dislike never crossed their mind who knows?
and shias not naming kids after usman, abu bakr is a personal choice not a shia law. i have met atleast two shias named umer…
shweetdreams it isnt so much a question of the thought not crossing their minds, the most probable explanation for me is that these names were common in pre-Islamic arabia, and while all Usmans now might trace their name's origin to the Usman that was the sahabi that certainly doesnt mean that everyone naming their children after a common arabic name at that time was tying its nisbat to the sahabi Usman.
well to be honest, i haven't come across sunnis with the name Abu Bakr, muawiyah, yazid etc. Umar and Usman, i have. Shias tend to name thier kids after the Imams, Prophets etc. There is no written rule in usool kafi that you can't name them as such. Why they dont, is a matter of personal choice and preference.
ravage I really hope that you don’t believe what you wrote above.
Do you really think that Hz. Ali (ra) will name his sons Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman even if they were just ‘Arabic names’? He surely would have avoided these names lest future generations misread that he was honouring these blessed personalities by naming his children after them!
You must be aware that Hz. Hassan (ra) and Hz. Hussein (ra) used the same names for their own sons too! It seems that Hz. Ali’s (ra) family loved these names]
Imam Jaffar (ra) was direct descendent of Hz. Abu Bakr (ra)!
You don’t believe me?!! Just check the following, and the link is provided [It is a shia site].
The sun of the existence of Imam Sadiq (A.S.) arose from the lap of his mother Ome-Farwah on the 17th of Rabiul Awal, 83rd year Hijrah, in the city of Madina. His father Imam Mohammad Baqir (A.S.) was much happy and pleased by the birth of his son. His mother was the grand daughter of Mohammad Ibn-e-Abu Bakr, who was one of the friends of Ali (A.S.). Imam Ali (A.S.) repeatedly said about him that, “Mohammad is my spiritual and moral son.” Asma Bint-e-Amais was the mother of Mohammad Bin Abu Bakr, and she was considered to be a pious woman. She was continuously in the service of Hazrat Zahra (S.A.) and took pride in it.
