Re: Mr. Jinnah’s presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
lol I did, that still does not state muslims were a majority in the sub-continent lol, now im convinced you have NO clue what you are saying…
btw Fareed is also wrong (which is always the case) with the numbers… The Muslims represented 23% of the population in British India…
Perhaps Haleem sahib thinks Jinnah had no clue what he was saying when he referred to Muslims are a minority lol:
“The Hindus and the Muslims belong to two different religions, philosophies, social customs and literature… To yoke together two such nations under a single state, one as a numerical minority and the other as a majority, must lead to growing discontent and final destruction of any fabric that may be so built up for the government of such a state.”
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
Iconoclase,
"What about the whole of population including other minorities"
Why are you concerned about other minortities? They are peanuts as compared to Hindus and Muslims. If India would have not been divided the population of Muslims would have been around 48% of Hindu population. If minortrities (Christians, Sikhs etc) are added to Muslims, they would surpass Hindus.
I have calculated this %age from official sites of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
Spock,
"btw Fareed is also wrong (which is always the case) with the numbers... The Muslims represented 23% of the population in British India..."
First of all I am not Fareed but Farid. I think it is otherway round. If you need my calculation I can post here. As I already said I got the population figures from the Government Websites of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh which I assume is current not your old British India..... Man wake up this is 2007.
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
I am really appalled by how some of us are dissing Jinnah here focussing on his secular views (who cares? That's a matter between him and Allah) instead of appreciating his enormous achievement i.e. the creation of a separate state. Whether Pakistan was founded for theological reasons or not is completely immaterial and irrelevant here. Shame on all of you. Let's leave his poor soul in peace and be grateful to what he has given us all. I always thought if there was one person in Pakistan that we all sincerely revered and adored it was Jinnah. How wrong was I?
I have always been more impressed by people who follow practical Islam and I am seldom impressed by people who merely follow the tenets of Islam (as in praying, fasting etc.) and think that's the only reason for their existence in this world. Besides some of these seemingly very religious people are some of the most unreliable, dishonest, selfish, corrupt and insincere people that I know (always looking for short cuts in life, evading taxes as best they can, claiming illegal benefits from the state, blaming all their ills on the West while at the same time being quite happy to reap the benefits of Western education and seek asylum in Western countries, what kind of hypocrisy is that? etc.). What's the use of all this praying and fasting if it does not make you a better human being?
To quote another example. Imran Khan may not have been very religious in his earlier life (that's his personal life) but look what he's done and is still doing - setting up cancer hospitals in Lahore and Karachi, a University in Mianwali etc. Edhi is another practical muslim. We need more and more practical muslims like these guys to improve the image of our religion in the eyes of the world and to remove poverty and backwardness from our societies.
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
Jinnah was atleast a million times better than these extremist nuts who cry foul at every opportunity or always try and play the victim card while doing nothing practical for their fellow muslims except shouting muslim brotherhood slogans (naara baazi) and politicising Islam all the time or bombing/blowing themselves up killing several innocent people in their wake. What's more they try and justify these evil acts.
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
Farid (sorry about the sp mistake), the numbers that I was talking about was the population of India at the time of partition. Muslims constituted 20-30% according to 3 different sources.
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
lol I did, that still does not state muslims were a majority in the sub-continent lol, now im convinced you have NO clue what you are saying...
"
they were nearly there........spoock.
now also deny this fact that muslims ever ruled the sub-continent.
Jinnah was atleast a million times better than these extremist...
Mr.golden...kindly tell me who is going to hell and for how long? Also who else is being punished in their graves?
nuts who cry foul at every opportunity or always try and play the victim card while doing nothing practical for their fellow muslims except shouting muslim brotherhood slogans (naara baazi) and politicising Islam all the time or bombing/blowing themselves up killing several innocent people in their wake. What's more they try and justify these evil acts.
The scholars I named in one of my post.....please provide any proof that those scholars are encouraging people for blowing them up...................I know you will not be able to provide any proof but you can find plenty of stuff that proves secular views of Jinnah and Aga Khan(one of the biggest personality behind the creation of Pakistan) being a Free Mason.
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
Mr.golden...kindly tell me who is going to hell and for how long? Also who else is being punished in their graves?
Who knows? What Jinnah did was a great service to mankind......Huqooq al ibaad and Allah as I understand Islam is more impressed by huqooq al ibaad than huqood Allah. Ofcourse that does n't mean that one should stop praying and fasting. Jinnah became very religious in his last years. So let Allah decide on the day of judgement. He even abandoned his daughter because she would not convert to Islam.
The scholars I named in one of my post.....please provide any proof that those scholars are encouraging people for blowing them up...................I know you will not be able to provide any proof but you can find plenty of stuff that proves secular views of Jinnah and Aga Khan (one of the biggest personality behind the creation of Pakistan) being a Free Mason
I was not referring to your scholars but to self-styled imams and sheikhs, religious nuts like Sheikh Omar Bakri and Moqtada Al Sadr who glorify criminal acts like suicide bombings, hijackings, beheadings etc.
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
Who knows? What Jinnah did was a great service to mankind. Huqooq al ibaad and Allah as I understand Islam is more impressed by huqooq al ibaad than huqood Allah. Ofcourse that does n't mean that one should stop praying and fasting. Jinnah became very religious in his last years. So let Allah decide on the day of judgement. He even abandoned his daughter because she would not convert to Islam.
good for him then. also after listening to Dr Asrar Ahmad i realized that Jinnah was a muslim. May Allah forgive us all.
I was not referring to your scholars but to self-styled imams and sheikhs, religious nuts like Sheikh Omar Bakri and Moqtada Al Sadr who glorify criminal acts like suicide bombings, hijackings, beheadings etc.
you know what.....i'm also against these type of people.
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
it may be all well to have an idealistic view of a religious state and all but the reality of the situation is that places like pakistan are full of illiterate and undeducated religious extremists who have no idea how to run a country. It is all very well to listen to western educated lecturers giving their views but intelligent religious people like this are very rare.
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
And i fully support the idea of secularism.....
Fine incorporate islamic beliefs into the laws of the country, have a religious council which upholds the basic moral tenets and beliefs and give the country an islamic identity..but what do religious scholars know about running an economy, developing the country, about administration, town planning and organisation. nothing !!
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
it may be all well to have an idealistic view of a religious state and all but *the reality of the situation is that places like pakistan are full of illiterate and uneducated religious extremists who have no idea how to run a country. It is all very well to listen to western educated lecturers giving their views but intelligent religious people like this are very rare. *
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
Spock,
"Farid (sorry about the sp mistake), the numbers that I was talking about was the population of India at the time of partition. Muslims constituted 20-30% according to 3 different sources."
This is 2007, population of Muslims have doubled in all these years. Nehru knew that Muslims would multiply soon and it would be a pain in @$$ for Hindu PM to rule India smoothly. He connived with Lord Mountbaton, perhaps Quaid was also part of this conspiracy divided the Muslims and made them weak.
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
Originally Posted by hareem01:
So you are a secular?
yes. you can have an a secular state with an islamic identity. the most succesful islamic majority nations right now are those which have learnt how to do this eg. malaysia turkey dubai etc.
Re: Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan
Spock,
"Farid (sorry about the sp mistake), the numbers that I was talking about was the population of India at the time of partition. Muslims constituted 20-30% according to 3 different sources."
This is 2007, population of Muslims have doubled in all these years. Nehru knew that Muslims would multiply soon and it would be a pain in @$$ for Hindu PM to rule India smoothly. He connived with Lord Mountbaton, perhaps Quaid was also part of this conspiracy divided the Muslims and made them weak.
FARID
I didn't want to come to this thread. But here i should i guess. All i would say is, telling jinnah, nehru and mountbatten joining hands in a conspiracy is something really stupid. stop looking at conspiracies everywhere.