Re: MQMs new challenge
When I asked guy, why did you do that. He said ‘Bhai, zinda bhi to rehna hai’ :sid:
Re: MQMs new challenge
If anyone thinks that MQM hold on Karachi could go than please read carefully, else be assured that chances are remote. :)
To break hold of MQM, a party that wants to compete has to give first to Karachi and at ground level before expecting to get supports and votes. Rukha rukha vote mangnay say kabhie vote nahi milay ga, except from few who either wear glasses of ethnicity that blur their sight, or are young from well-to-do families who do not have much problem in life and want change for the sake of fashion, or are self-centred religious minded (do not care about others but look at everything according to their own sectarian religious thinking).
Think why MQM gets 100s of thousand votes from most Karachi constituencies, why MQM leadership do not worry of losing their votes, and why in one request millions gather to hear Altaf Hussain so obediently and well-mannered that can amaze and admire competitors and friends alike.
Well, here is tip. MQM (their leaders from top to lowest level workers) is helping day to day life of most people in the areas they control since their inception in 1980s, regardless of who people vote and regardless of MQM is in government or not. MQM helps people from party funds, regardless of whatever way they collected the fund (one may call that fund bhatta, other may call that fund chanda or donation).
You could find MQM providing food, clothing and all sorts of help to poor (also some lower-middle class), and at places even open shops selling cheaply during Ramadhan (well-off also get benefit from such MQM activities … but not as much as poor and lower middle class).
MQM gives helping hand in most problems of poor, even if that is personal. You will always find them listening and doing something if they can. Their office bearers are accessible and show much friendly attitude to their voters (rich or poor) compared to office bearers of most other parties.
They occasionally take up cleaning roads campaign and also try to do something about clearing garbage from areas, especially if they are shown concern, where even their top leadership get involved. Their party workers even try to protect people if they get threatened physically by mafias.
MQM also get involved practically and extensively in helping officials to provide service and facilitate people. One example can be seen on roads of Karachi during traffic jams. For instance, MQM has started a group of volunteers who helps control traffic if they see that traffic warden is under stress due to traffic jams (if you will visit Karachi, you may find civilians helping traffic warden in controlling traffic … you may not know who they are, but they are MQM organised workers).
Many poor in Karachi, especially MQM workers, have MQM card. Using that card they get free or cheap food items, cheap clothing, free medical treatments and free medicine (all from MQM party fund). One of my relative referring to someone who has MQM card told me that these people not only get free treatment but preferential treatment in MQM controlled hospitals, much better treatment then patients who do not have card and have to pay for their treatments.
MQM lowest level party worker has chance to rise to the level of top leadership, and regardless, if anything happens to MQM workers, party look after the family.
There are many medical doctors helping MQM in providing medical treatments free, doctors who work in Karachi and abroad (many in USA). Some doctors from abroad (especially USA but from other places too) come to Karachi every year to give free medical treatment (even operations if required) to poor in Karachi. I know of one heart surgeon from USA, who comes to Karachi ‘more or less’ every year to do heart surgery of poor who are on MQM list (he brings his own stent and that he uses in operations if required, free … though each stent cost over several thousand dollars).
Well, it is not just MQM, but in Karachi Jamait-e-Islami also do lot of social work though not at such massive scale and level that MQM does. JI helps selective few who they think are JI sympathisers (or known to JI). Another thing is that, unlike MQM, JI top leadership would not get down to floor level to help people. Worse is that, JI exploit many to work for them, but their membership is selective, and very few could become member, thus only selective few could rise to high position in JI (this was the situation when I was at University in Pakistan, and I believe situation is same today).
One can say that JI helps but selectively compared to MQM that helps poor and needy across the borad, extensively, and at all level.
There are many social works MQM does for poor throughout Karachi (actually everywhere they have presence, including Hyderabad and other part of Sindh) at extensive scale, something that is difficult to mention, and though most getting benefits are poor and lower middle class, rich also benefit from their work.
So, to oust MQM, PTI top leadership, members, supporters, workers (actually, they have to increase their workers many fold for the job), all have to stoop down to ground level, get their hands dirty with muck on roads and gutters, and then start helping poor of Karachi from their own party fund (or empty their own pocket), competing with MQM at all levels in such a way that poor and middle class of Karachi starts recognising PTI as part of them (just like MQM voters recognise MQM as their part), start feeling PTI as their party and they themselves beneficiaries as well as equals (even poor voter should start looking at himself equal to top leadership in party), seeing PTI top leadership, members, and workers amongst them as those who live with them as they live, and die with them as they die, then only PTI can expect some support from people of Karachi at ground level, else, as I can see, with time, MQM influence is increasing not decreasing, and that increase is not just in Urdu speaking people, but throughout Sindh, in all areas.
Anyhow, if PTI starts serving people of Karachi at all level with their own fund, providing same or similar facilities all over Karachi, and people of Karachi would find PTI leadership amongst them as equal just like most Karachiets find MQM top leadership as equal amongst them, then it would be nice change in Karachi, as people would benefit a lot by getting served extensively by two parties, sorting their day to day problems, competing with each other. Else, whatever little votes PTI got would erode as quickly as it came.
Saleem bhai this is all well and good and should be done by not just one party, ALL parties. As they are supposed to serve the public and not to build their assets.
Now let me tell you what people of Karachi really want. They want peace, PEACE!! They want peace of mind that their sons won't end up in "boris". They want peace of mind that the small business owners won't have to give bhatta even if they have no pay to take home. They want peace to know that everytime MQM has a conflict with another party, the whole city won't shutdown.
MQM must have done all these great things. But it (MQM) has hurt Karachi in ways that seem irreparable. Imagine if there was no violence. Don't you think investors all over the world would want to invest in a big port city like Karachi? If investment comes back to Karachi, it will solve many problems anyway. When foreign companies invest, it will create more jobs, which means more youth will be able to find work, which means more families will be better off. And when more families are better off, they will be able to afford their own, food, shelter, clothing, medical treatments. And on top of that they will be paying zakats which means the remaining poors will have more funds to get help from.
So again, solution to Karachi's problems is not feeding 10-20 people, having them on special treatment list. It is to find a way so that every person, not just in Karachi but all over Pakistan has equal access to a make their life better.
Re: MQMs new challenge
MQM's philosophy is ; if you dont let us play, then not only we take our bat and ball with us, but we will kill all other players too.
Re: MQMs new challenge
Brother, I think you are living in denial. Do not think that people in Karachi wears bangles that they would get dictated by one party. Most Karachiets think before voting and can ditch a party anytime if they feel unsatisfied. No guns or threat can force anyone in Karachi. If you see 100s of thousand attending MQM gatherings then accept that it is genuine gatherings of willing participants, not forced gatherings. Same with votes, though it is possible that many MQM voters may not vote thinking that MQM would win anyhow, but if call would be made then many would turn up.
In 1972, PPP got 3 out of 7 seats. JI got 2 out of 7 and what I remember, 2 out of 7 went to JUP.
In this election PPP got 1 out of 20 seats. JI and JUP lost all supports they ever had in Karachi.
And yes, if MQM start disappointing voters then they could ditch MQM too, but unfortunately all parties in past disappointed Karachi and I believe MQM did do lot of works and still doing lot of work at lowest level.
Are you talking about the same Karachi that I am from? I have seen street guys threatening my chacha for a damn "khaal". I have heard from family members that they also forced people to give money for "bhai's" walima in London. Are you naive or just ignorant?
I even heard a personal account from an "ex-member" how he had to leave the city for a bit after he left the party because he new what will happen if he stays there. This usually happens in gangs and not in political parties.
And just as someone else said, where there is smoke there is a fire. People are not stupid. They show up for jalsas, they vote for MQM because they KNOW if they don't then what will happen to them.
Re: MQMs new challenge
You are not doing justice to the question asked.
Here: Where do you stand on the heinous statements made by Altaf Hussain, the supposed party-head of MQM?
Please answer. I'm not interested in anything else.
What can I say about statement without knowing what statement you are referring?
I did no heard his whole speech, but what he said that made lot of people upset was that addressing Pakistani establishment he said 'IF you do not want to accept Mandate of Karachi then make Karachi separate'.
If that is the statement you are referring to then, either you did not understood what he said, you heard partially, or you do not want to understand. To understand you have to see what he said. You cannot say that … since one said ‘La-i-la-ha’ (there is no God) a person is atheist, but you have to see what a person is saying, and that means you have to take the pharase ‘il-lal-lah’ (but ‘The God’) into account.
In same way, you have to take into account word ‘agar’ (or ‘IF’) in his statement.
We should understand that either a country has military rule, where citizen are all same and no one is above other (in other word all are ruled equally)
Or
Country should have democracy where voters should be treated equally and voters mandate should be acceptable.
But in democracy, if mandate of a party is not accepted than party (and their voters) are not equal to rest, rather they are ruled, and that means making them live as occupied or ‘people of colony’. In that situation, colonised people would look for their right (that is what happened in 1971 when, mujeeb-ur-Rahman mandate became unacceptable to establishment of the time resulting in break-up of Pakistan),
Anyhow, You might ask that what about mandate a party got from rigging?
Answer is simple, that is, if rigging is happening than no party can be blamed for that but ‘caretaker government, Judiciary, lower judiciary, government functionaries looking after voting process, election commission, establishment, army, rangers, police’ … who should not be partial and should conduct election all over the country sincerely and efficiently.
But if these people in position are not sincere and efficient, then blaming one party or another of rigging and then questioning their mandate would again be asking for trouble.
For instance, PMLN rigged present election in Punjab. Some might say same about PTI rigging election in KPK and most seats they won. Same one could say about PPP rigging election in interior Sindh. But if establishment and other parties start rejecting mandate of one party (for instance mandate of PMLN) calling that as rigged mandate and reject their right on that basis then that would cause problem same as rejecting mandate of any other party mentioned above.
And that is why I wrote what I wrote in my last post that do not blame any party, but blame the system that exist and then bring improvement in the system all across Pakistan, so that no rigging could happen. That is, if establishment want to see Pakistan as one country than have to bring fairness across the country. They cannot have election result due to rigging all across the country from all parties, but allege one party of rigging (I am using the word allege, because no parties accept they rig).
Re: MQMs new challenge
No need to write a philosophical thesis paper. Just answer "Do you support what he said, and stand behind it" or "You reject that philosophy, and stand with the peaceful protestors".
God Forbid you should answer a simple question with a simple answer.
If you don't want to answer straight forward, then please ignore this and do not quote me with a 7 paragraph reply of what words mean. I'm well aware of usage of vocabulary. It's quite insulting to assume otherwise.
Re: MQMs new challenge
Saleem bhai this is all well and good and should be done by not just one party, ALL parties. As they are supposed to serve the public and not to build their assets.
Now let me tell you what people of Karachi really want. They want peace, PEACE!! They want peace of mind that their sons won't end up in "boris". They want peace of mind that the small business owners won't have to give bhatta even if they have no pay to take home. They want peace to know that everytime MQM has a conflict with another party, the whole city won't shutdown.
MQM must have done all these great things. But it (MQM) has hurt Karachi in ways that seem irreparable. Imagine if there was no violence. Don't you think investors all over the world would want to invest in a big port city like Karachi? If investment comes back to Karachi, it will solve many problems anyway. When foreign companies invest, it will create more jobs, which means more youth will be able to find work, which means more families will be better off. And when more families are better off, they will be able to afford their own, food, shelter, clothing, medical treatments. And on top of that they will be paying zakats which means the remaining poors will have more funds to get help from.
So again, solution to Karachi's problems is not feeding 10-20 people, having them on special treatment list. It is to find a way so that every person, not just in Karachi but all over Pakistan has equal access to a make their life better.
You are right that people of Karachi wants peace. Here also, all parties claim they are Angels and problem lies with other party (for most, MQM is culprit). What about MQM, does they say they are responsible of violence and Bhatta? ... NO ... they blame other parties and say that law should be applied equally on all.
So, why blame one party or another, why not the system and propaganda?
If system would change to make election fool-proof and accept mandates of all, and make sure that no one try to colonise others than only we could live in peace, else one can talk and keep blaming, but peace would not come.
Logically, it seems MQM could not be responsible of violence and Bhatta in Karachi, as by violence and Bhatta, the party that would lose most is MQM.
Re: MQMs new challenge
I heard MQM boycotted the re polling in NA250 on sunday
Burgers ne apna kaam dikha he diya akhir
Re: MQMs new challenge
Are you talking about the same Karachi that I am from? I have seen street guys threatening my chacha for a damn "khaal". I have heard from family members that they also forced people to give money for "bhai's" walima in London. Are you naive or just ignorant?
I even heard a personal account from an "ex-member" how he had to leave the city for a bit after he left the party because he new what will happen if he stays there. This usually happens in gangs and not in political parties.
And just as someone else said, where there is smoke there is a fire. People are not stupid. They show up for jalsas, they vote for MQM because they KNOW if they don't then what will happen to them.
Yes I am talking about same Karachi where I was born and lived many years, and have 1000s of family member living there (many in PTI too, one of them at quite high level), and I believe what you wrote is completely BS (but then I would say that according to my experience, not yours).
Anyhow, Amir Liquat Hussain left party still live in Karachi, so your statement is ridiculous.
Today on TV 'Mani (known TV artist)' said in a program (anchor was Iqrar-ul-Hassan) that he went to Nazimabad (MQM stronghold) to cast vote, and he openly gave vote to PTI where all MQM workers in and out of polling station appreciated him.
My brother who lives in F B area, gives vote and 'Khal' to JI, and he never had any problem.
So, yea I am talking about same Karachi.
Re: MQMs new challenge
I know of people who have had to pay bhatta to MQM for building social projects like schools, and sell their house privately to make sure MQM sector commanders don't find it out as they come for their share even in transactions like these. I am sure no one would want to live in fear in their own city.
You can't buy a house with out paying bhatta to the sector incharge.
Re: MQMs new challenge
I know of people who have had to pay bhatta to MQM for building social projects like schools, and sell their house privately to make sure MQM sector commanders don't find it out as they come for their share even in transactions like these. I am sure no one would want to live in fear in their own city.
lol :@:
EyEsOnSkY, apnay bachoon ki qasam kha kar kaho esa nahi hota Karachi main? (babar ghouri style)
Re: MQMs new challenge
If anyone thinks that MQM hold on Karachi could go than please read carefully, else be assured that chances are remote. :)
To break hold of MQM, a party that wants to compete has to give first to Karachi and at ground level before expecting to get supports and votes. Rukha rukha vote mangnay say kabhie vote nahi milay ga, except from few who either wear glasses of ethnicity that blur their sight, or are young from well-to-do families who do not have much problem in life and want change for the sake of fashion, or are self-centred religious minded (do not care about others but look at everything according to their own sectarian religious thinking).
Think why MQM gets 100s of thousand votes from most Karachi constituencies, why MQM leadership do not worry of losing their votes, and why in one request millions gather to hear Altaf Hussain so obediently and well-mannered that can amaze and admire competitors and friends alike.
Well, here is tip. MQM (their leaders from top to lowest level workers) is helping day to day life of most people in the areas they control since their inception in 1980s, regardless of who people vote and regardless of MQM is in government or not. MQM helps people from party funds, regardless of whatever way they collected the fund (one may call that fund bhatta, other may call that fund chanda or donation).
You could find MQM providing food, clothing and all sorts of help to poor (also some lower-middle class), and at places even open shops selling cheaply during Ramadhan (well-off also get benefit from such MQM activities … but not as much as poor and lower middle class).
MQM gives helping hand in most problems of poor, even if that is personal. You will always find them listening and doing something if they can. Their office bearers are accessible and show much friendly attitude to their voters (rich or poor) compared to office bearers of most other parties.
They occasionally take up cleaning roads campaign and also try to do something about clearing garbage from areas, especially if they are shown concern, where even their top leadership get involved. Their party workers even try to protect people if they get threatened physically by mafias.
MQM also get involved practically and extensively in helping officials to provide service and facilitate people. One example can be seen on roads of Karachi during traffic jams. For instance, MQM has started a group of volunteers who helps control traffic if they see that traffic warden is under stress due to traffic jams (if you will visit Karachi, you may find civilians helping traffic warden in controlling traffic … you may not know who they are, but they are MQM organised workers).
Many poor in Karachi, especially MQM workers, have MQM card. Using that card they get free or cheap food items, cheap clothing, free medical treatments and free medicine (all from MQM party fund). One of my relative referring to someone who has MQM card told me that these people not only get free treatment but preferential treatment in MQM controlled hospitals, much better treatment then patients who do not have card and have to pay for their treatments.
MQM lowest level party worker has chance to rise to the level of top leadership, and regardless, if anything happens to MQM workers, party look after the family.
There are many medical doctors helping MQM in providing medical treatments free, doctors who work in Karachi and abroad (many in USA). Some doctors from abroad (especially USA but from other places too) come to Karachi every year to give free medical treatment (even operations if required) to poor in Karachi. I know of one heart surgeon from USA, who comes to Karachi ‘more or less’ every year to do heart surgery of poor who are on MQM list (he brings his own stent and that he uses in operations if required, free … though each stent cost over several thousand dollars).
Well, it is not just MQM, but in Karachi Jamait-e-Islami also do lot of social work though not at such massive scale and level that MQM does. JI helps selective few who they think are JI sympathisers (or known to JI). Another thing is that, unlike MQM, JI top leadership would not get down to floor level to help people. Worse is that, JI exploit many to work for them, but their membership is selective, and very few could become member, thus only selective few could rise to high position in JI (this was the situation when I was at University in Pakistan, and I believe situation is same today).
One can say that JI helps but selectively compared to MQM that helps poor and needy across the borad, extensively, and at all level.
There are many social works MQM does for poor throughout Karachi (actually everywhere they have presence, including Hyderabad and other part of Sindh) at extensive scale, something that is difficult to mention, and though most getting benefits are poor and lower middle class, rich also benefit from their work.
So, to oust MQM, PTI top leadership, members, supporters, workers (actually, they have to increase their workers many fold for the job), all have to stoop down to ground level, get their hands dirty with muck on roads and gutters, and then start helping poor of Karachi from their own party fund (or empty their own pocket), competing with MQM at all levels in such a way that poor and middle class of Karachi starts recognising PTI as part of them (just like MQM voters recognise MQM as their part), start feeling PTI as their party and they themselves beneficiaries as well as equals (even poor voter should start looking at himself equal to top leadership in party), seeing PTI top leadership, members, and workers amongst them as those who live with them as they live, and die with them as they die, then only PTI can expect some support from people of Karachi at ground level, else, as I can see, with time, MQM influence is increasing not decreasing, and that increase is not just in Urdu speaking people, but throughout Sindh, in all areas.
Anyhow, if PTI starts serving people of Karachi at all level with their own fund, providing same or similar facilities all over Karachi, and people of Karachi would find PTI leadership amongst them as equal just like most Karachiets find MQM top leadership as equal amongst them, then it would be nice change in Karachi, as people would benefit a lot by getting served extensively by two parties, sorting their day to day problems, competing with each other. Else, whatever little votes PTI got would erode as quickly as it came.
after what venom MQM's quaid has been spewing during his oral diarrhea, and after countless times they have been busted, some people still have guts (or lack of?) to support MQM! amazing. ALLAH hum sab kay hal par reham farmaye
Re: MQMs new challenge
The problem is that more provinces would mean division of senate seats too, and hence the proportion of provinces now forming punjab would have more representation.
Suppose hazara and seraiki provinces are formed, the 100 seats of senate would be divided into 6 provinces hence the representation of all provinces would go down to 16 %, and punjab + seraiki + hazara areas would be represented by around 50 % of senate.
so why its a problem by the way? isn't it fair? its still in favor of sindh/KP/balochistan, if we decide senate representation based on population, they some of them will get even lower numbers
Re: MQMs new challenge
so why its a problem by the way? isn't it fair? its still in favor of sindh/KP/balochistan, if we decide senate representation based on population, they some of them will get even lower numbers
Senate is never based on population, hence its upper house of parliament (or congress) designation. Who knows how a future bhawalpur province caucuse with in the senate? I would also divide balochistan into an upper quetta province and a kalat province. A third province could be based around gawadar, though I want big cities like karachi and gawadar (will get there if properly developed with links) to be semi-independent in policy like it is with big cities in the west. The provincial and federal govt have to be developing smaller towns to city standards instead of flooding the few big cities with quota people etc and also taxing / looting them mercilessly.
But for all of this to happen, a bottom up civilized society revolution will need to happen. Imran never mentions it explicitly but he is wrong just to focus on trickle down politics as for that to happen, a bottom up politics has to happen. There never has been nor will be any messiahs in Pakistan.
Re: MQMs new challenge
Does that mean imran would publicly apologize to “brown sahibs” like he did for supporting musharraf referendum? 
Re: MQMs new challenge
no, as someone said in another thread, out people have short memories, that story is 10 years old
Re: MQMs new challenge
Brown sahib story is 10 years old? 
Re: MQMs new challenge
after what venom MQM's quaid has been spewing during his oral diarrhea, and after countless times they have been busted, some people still have guts (or lack of?) to support MQM! amazing. ALLAH hum sab kay hal par reham farmaye
Are you trying to intimidate me and stop me writing the truth (or truth as I see it)?
Ask any unbiased independent observer and it would become obvious even from writings on ‘forums and media’ who are washat-gards, as it is obvious that ‘wahshat-gards’ are those who do not even lose their ‘wahsat-gardi’ on ‘forums and media’, and thus one can see them on various ‘forums and media’ threating, terrorising, intimidating, abusing, accusing, cajoling, blaming, shouting, and demeaning those they do not like or parties they do not like.
Well, tell me one thing. If MQM is mafia and Karachi is badly managed lawless society where people get persecuted by MQM, then why every year 100s of thousand migrate to Karachi and very few settled karachiets leave Karachi?
Why well managed and prosperous Punjab and KPK not attracting people from settled Karachiets, rather these provinces losing their settled people to Karachi? Why with all problems Karachi is still seen by people of Punjab and KPK as place of opportunity and peace (not by exploiting class of Punjab and KPK, but ordinary people)?
Is it not true that people move from junky, run-down and badly managed volatile areas to better managed, prosperous, and peaceful areas? Or is it that people who move to Karachi from Punjab and KPK are mental that they move from well managed peaceful area to badly managed volatile area?
So, does it not make sense that all wrong news about Karachi is actually propaganda and far from realities on ground. Is it not logical to say that Punjab and KPK is badly managed, volatile and lawless society compared to Karachi and that is the reason people migrate to Karachi looking for opportunity and peaceful life?
Re: MQMs new challenge
EyEsOnSkY, apnay bachoon ki qasam kha kar kaho esa nahi hota Karachi main? (babar ghouri style)
Look MQM is not a party of angels and all his bank votes either, acha bura har society mein hota hai so it's not mean ke you lebel all bad happening towards a particular party. Myself and persons around me never happen to pay forcefully! Dil mein ata hai donate karo nahi tou na karo. I'm not living there more but still when ever I visit Karachi I do meet my old friends one of them is sector inchsrge of area and his brother still have that small PAN shop where we used to sit and he himself still working in same govt.office oh yeah he got Honda 70 before it was 50(^_^) I'm from Punjab and they know I'm economically stable bade mohbat se pesh ate hain apne gharon mein bulate hain. We discuss on poltics and never heard that someone somehow get abused by using power or force.
Re: MQMs new challenge
how is this post from Aceones anything closer to “intimidation”?