Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
shafiq khan bhai i think i touched a nerve aakhir altaf hussain ko bura kaha naaa…i am imagining tht ur face wud be red hot when u wud see all replies and would generally cry while replying…lol
i know why u say so many bad things abt pakistan …its because u think that u r one of those who have a mentality of being a mohajir first not a pakistani…u RAW agent u (kiddingmate bura nahin manaao)..thats why u say noone gives a **** abt me saying that i think about pakistan not abt punjabis, mohajirs, pathans, baluchis because ppl will only give a **** if u say that u r mohajir…and cry that pakistan did this to us that to us…
i dont wanna get in ur worthless fight…i hate to educate a 52 yr old raw agent …
and remember mr raw agent i had put a post in reply of Mr Tariq’s topic…ab is se aap ki sulag gayi to main kya karo…
ciao done with u keep crying and bickering now…u know u r very good at it u cud make a living out of it
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
Dear Tariq,
Your second point. Iam not going to niether have I in anyway implied defense of Mqm’s heinous crimes in Karachi. Such brazen acts of wanton violence are reprehensible which need to be oppoosed by civil society. You are targetting Altaf for his ghoonda ghardi, by all means go ahead. Just remember the following:
How did this start?
When did this start happening?
Who started this?
Karachittes/Hyderbadis or Mohajirs had migrated from India to settle in Pakistan as equal citizens, but what happened under successive governments is clear evidence of the prejudices a common mohajir had to encounter for admission in professional colleges or getting governemntal jobs (Quota). On top of that, they were treated with contempt by other ethnic groups, while the national political parties played spectator role and actually encouraged Punjabi and Pakhtoon’s to settle in Karachi and then dominate the local residents. APMSO came into existence in 1978/79, we already had flourishing Pakhtoon Student Federation, Punjabi Students Federation, Sindhi Students Federation and BSF. While Jamaat, PSF and NSF were pakistan wide student parties, but wud support candidates in hostel elections based on ethnicity. When West Pak refused to acknowledge its East pakistani rights as equal citizens the result was contempt and a desire to take back what was rightfully theirs. Mqm like many other nationalist parties of this world was also the creation of such disparities and ethnic prejudices. Had, Pakis been all pakis, why then have ethnic divisions in educations, jobs, sports and religion.
Things started to happen when our so-called Jihad in Afghanistan was at its peak stages. US$, Saudi Riyal was flowing into the coffers of our Jihadi outfits and their supporters who then went on to widen their wealth base by going into smuggling of drugs and guns. Though the initial direction was supposed to be Afghanista, as we all know now ‘blowback’ is a ugly reality. What we (Pak leaders) had planned for others, came and bit us in our big fat asses…KKK+drug culture came and hit Pakistan in a big way. Since Karachi was the biggest city with plenty of Afghan refugees and ISI operatives trying to weave ugly nets, guns, drugs and corrupt gangster were rampant with no accountability or sense of repercussion. Our Jihad in Afghnistan had its price tag and that was the peace and tranquility of Karachi. Altaf Hussain is guilty because he chose alligning with these sinsiter gangs rather than confronting them. To be honest, how many politicians in Pakistan do you know who stood up and said this is wrong and fought for its peace and did not participate in this mayhem?
Fighting between Mohajirs-Sindhis started off during Bhuttos time and saw its worst form durring the Mohajir-Pathan riots of the eighties. tellme Tariq, how the hell did the common ppl of Pakistan which included pathans, mohajirs, sindhis get armed to their teeth? Answer of who started it lies in the riddle and you know the answer…
Post 9/11, jihad is no more kosher word to be used and bandied around, thus networks of guns and drugs have to be dismantled, all linkages must be eliminated and political leadership as always must play according to the new rules. Thus these new alliances…what can you do, everything in this country is a farce, choreographed to the last, minutest details.
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
I agree with you, guys u r talking about have done a reasonably good job of keeping their names clean from such an image. Altaf Hussain has no defense and niether deserves any sypmathy for his state of affairs.
Only thing I wud say here is that there is also a lot of Govt propaganda which has compounded this ugly image. Jinnahpur is crap, proven fact that it was just another ISI tactic to malign Mqm and discredit their leadership and provide motive for the carnage that took place in Karachi and Hyderabad.
By focusing on Mqm’s screwups public has been desensitized towards the sufferings of common Mqm workers who had nothing to gain or lose in this battle of political turfs. Hidden are all those extra-judicial murders carried out by the agencies. Censured are the atrocities committed by the centre against its own people. Condoned were the rangers movement into civil life, and their constant harrassment and violation of basic human rights was easily covered up. It also hid the then political govts agenda of trying to capitalize on their opponents bad times and try to get political advantages. Classic East Pakistan formula, just compare the two, no difference at all…
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
Fatguru- u claim to want a sensible debate but all you spew out is filth.
There is no use talking to people like you,people who think they are so right they try to shout down everyone who ‘dares’ have a different opinion.
You are exactly the type of person who brings this board down. Shame because there are many good people here who will debate without resorting to filth like you have.
Have a nice life
P.S. Try living in Karachi before you proclaim yourself an expert on it
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
[quote=“fartguru”]
FG,
I know and understand your point,…I do agree with you,..too,..There were so many characters involved in this E Pakistan debacle…Here I agree 100% with you.
I am not fan of military leadership. or Chaudhary’s,…Pirs,..or other Lullo’s etc.
I know what happened in E Pakistan,..How Army screwed up and who was behind all this. I pray to God all those who are even remotley connected to this Fall,…must burn in hell…
Having said that,…My point is,..Indian Factor,…India played effective role in this Fiasco…while **MUKTI BHAANI **went along with them at any cost. Which lead to more blood shed and problems.
Always cooler heads succeed…Now we look back and see how we screwed up then,…Its easy to judge now…I am all for all the communities representations,..whether its Mohjars,Pushtuns,Baluchis,..Sindhis,..Punjabis,..etc
We must not resort to an extreme positions and violance etc,..in order to achieve our identity,…Specially,..when there is a Indian factor behind the scene too.
East Pakistan was very difficult to defend given the geographical location of that country,…But In Pakistan,…If any community,..no matter how big or small,..if thinks they create that kind problem,..and win,..then they must wake up,…Pakistan has every right to defend and crush extermists,..as India did back in 1984,..during Golden Temple situation,..where Sikhs used the same very tactics,..Now no body knows what was that issue any more.
Tell me something:
Why Altaf Hussain Left Pakistan,…while no body forced him,…?
Why he piled up Heavy weaponry in Karachi,…for what,…?
Where that weaponry came from,…Do you know,..any guess ?
I don’t think Pakistan Army supplied it to him,…so that they can have joint exercises,…what you think ?
Its hard to confess ,…for those who are tirelessly trying to prove or becoming Mr. Nice guy,…That **WEAPONS CAME FROM INDIA **…
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
Simpson,
Well, first of all, do not abuse the Paak relationshp of brotherhood and don’t call me Bhai. I cannot be a brother of a joker and bahroopia who writes on this forum in camouflaged.
Secondly, you cannot shut me up by adverse and negative remarks, I don’t give RIDE to monkeys.
Thirdly, this forum is not owned by you or any other member so he could tell me rule of business and in the manifesto, there is no rule which says, one cannot post response to some individual’s post.
We MQM don’t believe in bickering but believe in kicking people out …that’s what we did during operation clean up for the occupant Pakistan military.
So far Altaf Hussain is concerned, he does not even know that people like you EVEN exist in this world. He is KING OF KINGS.
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
Are we talking about teh same Indians who created and supported Awami League? Are these the same guys who supported Ghaffar Khan (NAP)? Are these the same guys who support and payroll Sindhu Desh? Are these the same guys we find behind everything that goes wrong in Pakistan i.e. Baluchistan crises? God, these guys have had it so dam good for so long, sure keep a lot of establishment ppls very busy…TOTAL CRAP About time we gave up on this propaganda churning from both sides of the border which only feeds a frenzy and keeps the masses totally ill-informed, UNLESS you belong to RSS or Jamaat, both two sides of the same coin…fundamentalist/extremists whose only way of survival is to keep the masses hating others…
Rafiq DOGAR? its like Bush using his Iraqi spy Ahmed Challabi as a key witness.
Its common knowledge Jamaat was financed by the US in the fifties, sixties, seventies. War against communism was the excuse and they were all very happy to recieve funds and support from uncle sam, what hypocrisy…
By the way, check how all the Zakat money was squandered to build these terror networks…where did all this khaal (sacrificial animal skin) money go to…where did all those US$ and Saudi Riyals go to…Those living in glass houses should not throw stones…
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
BAO BIHARI,
If Rafiq Dogar knows and you footpathia know that Altaf Hussain is on the payroll of India..how come Musharraf does not know this truth?
So you are telling me Musharraf is also anti-Pakistani and anti-state as he is hugging MQM as the second largest coalition in the government. Wao, so we have Sindh governor Indian agent, dozens of Sindh ministers Indian agents and the commander-in-Chief and President of Pakistan Indian conspirators. What left than?
I like the knowledge and intelligence of those who are telling Altaf Hussain and MQM as traitors and Indian Agents but I am surprised how come over one million soldiers and hundreds of generals do not know this truth.
You guys should be running the affairs of the country instead of sitting in your camouflaged holes here on this forum!
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
Born in Karachi, raised in Karachi still resident of Karachi, no blue, red or brown passport, but totally green…seen the worst of Bhutto, PNA, Jamaat, Zia, PSF, IJT, Mqm, taxi, minivan walla, bus walla, you name it, I have experienced it…but still love my people, city and country…does that mean one cannot express his sentiments honestly? I think not.
You have all the right to believe in whatever fantasy story you wish, but dont you dare judge anyone, if you do then be ready to be judged. If you do not have the capacity to debate or counter arguments, then thats your failing dont blame others.
And I wish you a very happy life with a prayer that it gets really real…
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
All Those On This Forum Who Believe That Mqm & Mr. Altaf Hussain Are Anti-pakistan And Indian Agents......it Establishes Two Things:
You Guys Are More Smarter And Intelligent Than 150 Million Of Pakistan, Specially, President Musharraf.
Be Patriot, Straightforward, Honest And Brave And Write Letter To President Musharraf And Tell Him The Truth Because He Is Such An Idiot, That He Does Not Know The Fact And Has Given Mqm The Entire Sindh Province And Almost Half Of Pakistan To Share The Power And Being Patriot Boycott Sindh Offices For Any Work In Protest And Do Not Come Out Of Your Homes In Karachi And Other Parts Of Urban Sindh To Show Your Patriotism.
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
Mr. Shafiq,
As you,..said yourself in so many posts,...you been 20-Grade officer,..right,..? If its true.....Then tell me,..Why Pakistani federal Govt trust a muhjar like you to have 20-grade post,..then you mentioned your other family members are 20 grade officers too,...can you just explain here why,..Federal Govt trust them too,..? What is the big FUSS here,..?
[quote]
We MQM don't believe in bickering but believe in kicking people out .......that's what we did during operation clean up for the occupant Pakistan military.
[/quote]
Can you explain in details how,..that ** imginative and hypothetical ** kicking happened....and who were the families who lost their kids incited by those who didn't care about their welfare except their own and ran out of country.
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
Well Tariq Sahib, let’s have a brief but serious discussion.
You strat from beginning to end…
arn’t we, as Pakistanis very weak, small and reduce ourselves to such a level that even we feel shame of ourselves in our hearts. Instead of facing opposition and compete, we try to run away finding small excuses of cheap natiure and use weapons of personal attacks, calling names and swearing.
Think for a moment, you and me never met in life and would never meet in future too. If I stop posting and replying messages on this forum, it is like we don’t exist for each other. I hope, by doing that neither you nor me would lose a single grit of our life as this is just hobby we are doing here, chatting, gossiping and wasting our time. These forums should be for the purpose of teaching, learning, information, education and creative. But we all are so stupid that we have no respect for our valuable time.
No one can harm, damage or exert loss to any one practically because no one knows who who is.
LETS COME TO THE TOPIC:
Is that not Pakistan’s history that we always called other side traitors, anti-state, Indian agent etcetera. It was a time when for Jamat-e-Islami every body called American agents and America sends them money. Every single leader in Pakistan Maulana Maudoodi, Altaf Hussain, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Wali Khan, Badshah Khan, G.M.Syed, Bugti and many many others even today have been labled as foreign agent. Why Pakistani military and security forces could not go to Dera Bugti? Because they have more guns than Pakistani forces being sent. I know, at the end of the day, Pakistani forces would have overpowered but after many thousand casualties? Either dies, that is a loss of human life, a Pakistani.
Regarding MQM as terrorists, killers, armed etc, tell me which party or leader in Pakistan sits in the mosque and when walks on the street, he has Qur’an shareef in his hand? Every single party, it’s parent groups, student wing has a militant group and you see their demonstration everyday. This world is too small but awareness has gone to every corner of the world. The American intelligence can tell you about President Musharraf’s lawn in Islamabad that what make name football his grandson is playing. When a plane flies over the mountain, it can censor the human heat under the mountain caves. Don’t you think, all those who are running the country don’t know what is truth. Don’t they understand who is Indian agent, traitor and anti-state. If we all blame each other, that includes the entire population. If you call me traitor and I do the same who is the judge to decide?
The bottom line is everybody knows who is who. I was watching President Musharraf’s interview once about Sindh governor where the reporter asked if Mr. Ibad can be Sindh governor why Asif Zardari cannot be released (it was last year). The president reponded, we have a nationwide data and every single citizen of Pakistan out of 150 million who has any any any kind of case, active, past, bigger or smaller has a record in that data system. Can you believe it that when I checked with the chief Security, I was told, Ibad did not have even his name in that data. This is ISI chief telling to the general.
Regarding me being as grade-20 officer or my brothers or hundreds and thousands others (mohajirs) in Karachi and all over Pakistan, every body knows who is who. You are talking grade 20 here…do you know the Incharge general of Pakistan’s nuclear capabilities is also Urdu speaking Mohajir General. Mushrraf is deadbeat Mohajir and we have thousands and thousands top military and civil officers from this community. One calls Mohajir ghaddar, one calls Sindhis ghaddar, one calls Pathans ghaddar, one calls Balochi ghaddar and all call Punjab as rulers and occupants so who else left?
Let me tell you, I did not come to Canada to make money or educate my children because in Pakistan all these facilities and thath baath in Pakistan too. I was senior government Officer, my wife was working for UN, my children were studying in St. Micael in Karachi and I was living in Boat Basin Karachi, the most posh area of Pakistan. I still have a large agricultural agricultural farm in the interior Sindh…but I took premature retirement because in mid 90s, you would not know, if you are going out, you would come back in one piece. Even today, life in Pakistan is not safe. If MQM, PUNJABI PATHAN, SINDHI EXYZEE are not there than you might get killed while praying Jumma Namaaz in the Mosque or could be blown out with the Market on the street.
Life is not a rehearsal, it’s a one time shot. I am not afrain being dying but dying without no reason is useless and if you could use your intelligence, knowledge and resources why not to take the advantage.
Have you ever realized God only created one human and one land. Why God did not mention in Quran about Pakistan, Bangladesh, SriLanka, Japan, America, Sindhi Punjabi, Mohajir or Pathan, Shia, Sunni, Agha Khani etc?
It is you and me who drew frontiers and gave names to frontiers and humans.
I am seriously thinking to boycott this forum as people here are too small, infiltrative, narrow minded and it is really a “gossiping” place. What can you expect where people write in camouflage. It’s just waste of time.
What we do here is totally against the basic object of our creation as humans, forget being Muslims and Pakistani. First we got to be real human than we are anything else.
You people may enjoy this place, I am out of here.
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
Mr. Shafiq,
Thanx for the detailed response…I may not agree 100% with you,…But mostly I agree about past and present political/religious black sheeps,..
Every ethnic group no matter how small or big,…must have legitimate representation and voice over national/regional/local issues,…I am gonna support that and will support it all the time,…** Don’t take me wrong here **.
As I said,…The manner during the heated discussion over any topic leads to unpleasent things,.. and gives bad impression about our positon on that particular topic.
I like your articles,..but sometime,..you get carried away,..unintentionally or,..Thats where we start on topic and off topic discussions. No one is perfect here,…we learn from eachother and discuss it with the knowledge we have.
We had some un-pleasent discussions,..too bad…But we must ask eachother questions proactively and answer back,…to the best of our knowledge.
Here on GupShup forums,… Most of the partcipants are either High school / College Students…as compare to those who are working in their own field of speciality and with more experience about pakistani politics. I travel to Pakistan twice a year and everytime I go,..learn new things,..reading all the related books anywhere from **Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission Report **to current affairs…
I may not have practical knowldge as you had during your stay in Pakistan …But When I see posts,..on one hand discussing something,…and on other contradicting it.That’s where the real discussion starts.
Now about your point where :
I agree 100% with you,..I have raised this issue with the GS admin and Mods too,…for long time now,…We have people with two IDs,..here,.who want to play good with one and bad with other,..
I have sent so many PMs already,..Let them figure it out,..and ban anyone who violate their rules.
PS: Everyday, I don’t get up every morning thinking that I am gonna argue with this or that,..But on discussion forums it happens,..everywhere…Giving up is not an option here,…Stay on your course and change the perception of people here,…Therefore,…rethink your position and,…if any of my remarks makes sense then,…do the right thing.
Re: MQM : Is it for pakistam or aganist Pakistan ?
Iam just an ordinary guy…better you check with the Jamaat and MMA ppl, they wud be able to give u a better answer knowing their historic, deep, deep, monetary and political relationship with FBI/CIA/NSA/RSS/MOSSAD/MI5/…
