Re: MQM, Ahmedis and Israel
AJ, if you go across my previous posts Ive always defended the ahmedis, when it comes to the persecution in Pakistan, but taali do haath sey bajti hai. As a result of this persecution, (call it revenge) theres a big lobby of Ahmedis sitting outside of Pakistan and working AGAINST the interests of Pakistan. I personally know of some people, but lets leave personal anecdotes aside.
Well, one should think. One should use some Aqal. The book was published in Nov, 2006. Author of the book, Syed Jamaluddin writes declares in his book that General Musharraf is a Terrorist-in-Uniform. Further, when Musharraf came to power in 1999 and NS was kicked, this person (with his pay master, NS) was kicked out of Pakistan.
Now think. Jamaluddin wrote his book in 2006 (Divide Pakistan to eliminate Terrorism). In 2006, MQM was supporting Musharraf. PPP was negotiating with Musharraf and was not against Musharraf. JUP and ANP were also not vocally against Musharraf. The only political party that was most vocal against Musharraf was PMLN. The person who was most against Musharraf was Nawaz and his cronies, Imran Khan and Qazi. So, if Jamaluddin writes in 2006 that Musharraf is a Terrorist-in-Uniform, it is obvious that he is working for one of the above three. I do not think that he is working with Qazi or Imran, as if that was the case, he would not have got thrown out of Pakistan in 1999 (when Musharraf took over). So, it is obvious that he is crony of Nawaz Shareef, working on his some sort of secret agenda. From:
Product Description
About the Author
**Amazon.com: ht**tp://www.amazon.com/Divide-Pakistan-Eliminate-Syed-Jamaluddin/dp/0595417663](DIVIDE PAKISTAN: TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM: Syed, Jamaluddin: 9780595417667: Amazon.com: Books)
Product Details:
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Editorial Reviews:
Product Description
DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM is Syed Jamaluddin’s vision to address issues related to combatting terrorism emanating from Pakistan which have dramatically transformed the entire region into a systematically controlled network having vicious effects to the global peace.
This book gives an indepth analysis about the role of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and Tablighi Jamat which are involved in producing future terrorists. The book provides specific information about the actual tactics of ISI and Tablighi Jamat and their strategy to disrupt the international peace in the name of Islamization of the world through holy war and martyrdom.
The book is an effort to provide an inside story of Pakistan and stories of its military dictators and religious cults who are busy day and night to commit corruption in the name of war-on-terror. The writer declares General Musharraf as a Terrorist-in-Uniform.
About the Author
Syed Jamaluddin is an active writer on issues concerning Pakistan’s involvement in various terrorist activities in the South Asian region. He was forced to leave Pakistan after the military coup of General Musharraf in 1999. He liaised with political and religious parties of Pakistan as well as Government Agencies.
Soooo, you have no idea about if there is a book out there which claims 600 Ahmadis is Israeli army, or even if there is, if it is any credible or not?
Still, I am confused as to what you would like to discuss specifically. That MQM is full of Ahmadis? Or that Israel = MQM = Ahmadis? I am not sure that is being alleged here.
AJ, if you go across my previous posts Ive always defended the ahmedis, when it comes to the persecution in Pakistan, but taali do haath sey bajti hai. As a result of this persecution, (call it revenge) theres a big lobby of Ahmedis sitting outside of Pakistan and working AGAINST the interests of Pakistan. I personally know of some people, but lets leave personal anecdotes aside.
Ravage, just answer this:
If you want to break Pakistan, who would you use as your allies? We all know there are such plans, and as part of the plans, they are not just using anti-pakistani forces, but disgruntled ones (who at some point of their lives were persecuted by the Pak Govt). Even Zain Hamid touched that subject, but he didnt dare take names (even the media cant dare do that to the MQM).
Soooo, you have no idea about if there is a book out there which claims 600 Ahmadis is Israeli army, or even if there is, if it is any credible or not?
Still, I am confused as to what you would like to discuss specifically. That MQM is full of Ahmadis? Or that Israel = MQM = Ahmadis? I am not sure that is being alleged here.
I dont know about the ISraeli army, for that you need to ask the author himself, but I do know some ex-pak army ahmedis who are now working for some really 'influential' and strategic positions here and are full of venom for pakistan. They were discharged in the zia regime because they refused to admit they were non-muslims as required by law. If you want, I can send you more details, but thats all personal anecdotes, whether you choose to believe them or not is your choice.
^ it is a stretch to go from someone having venom against Pakistan to them plotting to destroy Pakistan in collaboration with jews and Altaf.
Ravage, just answer this:
If you want to break Pakistan, who would you use as your allies? We all know there are such plans, and as part of the plans, they are not just using anti-pakistani forces, but disgruntled ones (who at some point of their lives were persecuted by the Pak Govt). Even Zain Hamid touched that subject, but he didnt dare take names (even the media cant dare do that to the MQM).
yar, I can be sympathetic to any ideas you present about anti pakistan forces, if you present to me something that isnt ridiculous on the face. i've indulged many a conspiracy theory in my day, and probably still nurture some in my spare time.
my whole criticism on this thread is not to prove that there is no grand mqm-ahmadi-jew conspiracy, but that this article is astoundingly idiotic, even if written by an 'award winning' author.
personally, i do not think MQM are significant enough a force outside Karachi to break up Pakistan. furthermore they have shown sufficient ideological flexibility to discount the idea that they are interested in anything beyond being in power. They have swapped more partners than
So no, I dont see a consistent jew hand behind Altaf's current secularist stance, or his perennially racist surrogates (you speak as if this is the first time someone from MQM said something a pathan might not like). And no, the Ahmadi community, in Pakistan OR abroad, does not have anything close to respectable clout (apologies to Ahmadjee) when it comes to the ability to destroy Pakistan.
This specific article may have given some people orgasms at seeing so many groups they hate in one unifying web-page, but come on, have some standards.
Re: MQM, Ahmedis and Israel
on the contrary, I think they are, and they can create a jinnahpur if this global plot to split Pakistan succeeds, God forbid... If they succeed, who else do you think they'd want to rule/govern this new little country in the south?
Spock think: Amongst all political parties, who would write in 2006 that:
General Musharraf is a Terrorist-in-Uniform
Would it be a person from:
MQM ... Supporter of Altaf?
PPP ... Supporter of BB?
JI ... Supporter of Qazi?
JUP... Supporter of Fazlur-Rahman?
TI ... Supporter of Imran?
ANP ... Supporter of Aswan-yar Wali?
PMLQ ... Supporter of Shujahat Hussain?
PMLF ... Supporter of Pir Pagara?
or
PMLN ... Supporter of Nawaz?
To me, most logical answer is PMLN. Do you agree or disagree? :)
Re: MQM, Ahmedis and Israel
on the contrary, I think they are, and they can create a jinnahpur if this global plot to split Pakistan succeeds, God forbid... If they succeed, who else do you think they'd want to rule/govern this new little country in the south?
wake me up when MQM asks for Jinnahpur again. They're part of the establishment, and have been for ages.
Admit it. This is a ridiculous article from a poor source, calculated to get the juices flowing for the wingnuts.
Re: MQM, Ahmedis and Israel
Does 1998 ring a bell? It hasnt even been 10 years. The idea of Jinnahpur will come back as soon as they are kicked out of power, like they were in 1989, 1993, 1998. Atleast you are admitting Jinnahpur is an MQM plot, saleem bhai here with his colorful crayon posts is trying very hard to pin it to Nawaz Sharif 
I dont know about Jinnahpur specifically, but I can buy that it was an MQM idea at one point.
If you are saying that they will push for it when they are out of power, you are atleast admitting that it is a political tool, which is employed by them when out of power. Hardly the thing the jewish-ahmadi nexus would want from their allies.
Do you think the jewish-ahmadi lobby is waiting for MQM to lose an election in order to launch their grand plan? What happens to the lobby’s plans while MQM are in power, which has been for most of the past few decades?
I dont know about Jinnahpur specifically, but I can buy that it was an MQM idea at one point.
If you are saying that they will push for it when they are out of power, you are atleast admitting that it is a political tool, which is employed by them when out of power. Hardly the thing the jewish-ahmadi nexus would want from their allies.
Do you think the jewish-ahmadi lobby is waiting for MQM to lose an election in order to launch their grand plan?
MQM doesnt need to loose an election ravage, technically on their own they loose every time since they only win from one city when you consider the province. If there is chaos in the country, by foreign elements, and anarchy spreads, they'll be the first ones to seal Karachi's borders and declare it as their own country.
MQM doesnt need to loose an election ravage, technically on their own they loose every time since they only win from one city when you consider the province.
You said 'kicked out of power', I assume by that you mean not get votes necessary to guarantee their role in power. I dont really care to parse whether they win or lose, fact is that they are in power as a result of their election showing (and have been out of power because of their results at other occasions)
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If there is chaos in the country, by foreign elements, and anarchy spreads, they'll be the first ones to seal Karachi and declare it as their own country.
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We'll see how good your crystal ball is when that happens God forbid . In the meanwhile, I am talking about this specific article, and what proofs you've brought to bear out your grand alliance, which is really, really thin. Nor can you seemingly defend this garbage, which atleast shows some indication of the ability to critically examine things.
You said 'kicked out of power', I assume by that you mean not get votes necessary to guarantee their role in power.
I dont really care to parse whether they win or lose, fact is that they are in power as a result of their election showing (and have been out of power because of their results at other occasions)
Nope, you assumed wrong. They were kicked out of power in 1989, 1992, 1998 AFTER the power sharing deals went through. On their own, they cant form a Govt in sindh, I hope you realize that. This is one of the reasons why they dont want Karachi as part of Sindh. City Govt rings a bell? It was tailored for their needs.
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We'll see how good your crystal ball is when that happens. In the meanwhile, I am talking about this specific article, and what proofs you've brought to bear out your grand alliance, which is really, really thin.
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Yep, we'll see.