Sorry, was following the whole debate in General, and chose not to comment, despite some ripe morsels there.
And, fair being fair, if a leading Islamic cleric who had been responsible for bringing together religions, and who had been a force for good (Sistani comes to mind here) happened to die, I would say a prayer for his soul, and would slap any Christian on the side of the head who plucked some isolated verse out of the bible to justify his ignorance.
There was a thread sometime ago on paths up the mountain to God. My particular church has an exchange program with our local temple, where their rabbi gives us one sermon a year, and our pastor speaks with them. If there were a mosque in town, we would probably do the same. We should all be preaching a little tolerance.
true, we should. i remember asking Sistani once that it wasnt fair if some are born Muslims and others not and only Muslims would get into heaven while non Muslims wouldnt, whether it was fair to start a race with some blindfolded. I asked him if all non Muslims would go to hell. He said that it is not our place to decide who does and doesnt go to Hell, all we should remember is that Allah is Just.
just a useful thought to bear in mind while there is so much hell mongering going around.
All the people here that are advocating the praying for a mushrik's forgiveness, need only consider one thing: You're disobeying a direct order from Allah (swt).
fine, then just offer your condolences to non muslims and move on. if you must correct someone about it, do so privately.
just as you expect shias to have courtesy towards sahabas you revere (which I believe is possible while maintaining they were in the wrong), and expect Christians to respect the Prophet, publicly disrespecting a Christian religious figure (which you are doing when you say he is going to Hell etc) is also wrong, especially at a time when those who love him would be hurting. speak to those people you disagree with in private, and console those who are aggrieved.
You are picking ammo from websites, I am discussing what posters here are posting. I am not here to defend other people’s views, and by no means imply that all Christians are enlightened (as I am not even a mainstream Christian.)
BTW, which Muslims do I like to hate? I am only responding to the posts here that I don’t agree with or am trying to understand and questioning if they are mainstream Islamic opinion. I’m not going to type “I agree” with all the posters I agree with.
i dint say anything about condolences or grieving....
religiously, Islamically, a person is not allowed to pray for the forgiveness of non-muslims....
this has been my standpoint from the start of the thread and this is what i hold on to....
Quran says so, and I shall not move a micrometer away from what Quran says....
and if someone thinks that its one sect, then be informed that the SECT of Islam which i belong to is more commonly known as MAINSTREAM ISLAM and is a good 80-85% of the people who call themselves muslims....
P.S. tantawi is not seen as a religious authority by majority of the muslims....
i dont know whoever gave him the title of "the highest authority ni sunni islam"....
no such title exists in Islam, and even IF it did, tantawi wud not deserve it cuz his non-sense statements have often been faced with ridicule from the muslims world....
Semi, tell you what..I am going to pray to Allah that he blesses the Pope’s soul. If any muslim has an issue with that..they can go and try to cancel my prayer.
Dear Allah, as all people are your people, and the Pope has been one of the most righteous of your creation on this earth, spreading the good word and also bringing people of different faiths, who look at you in different forms, together…please bless his departed soul and create more people like him on this earth who create not divisions among your creation…but bring people together.
Holy Moly... I didn't come here for what... 15 hours and the thread's gone bizzerk.
In any case, armughal and the rest, my original point of contention still remains unresolved... I can't see why someone would not be able to say
"May God reward the pope for the good he has done" - this was the statement I made in the General forum which brought about this whole discussion.
Forgiveness or no forgiveness is in God's own hand - all I'm doing is giving credit where its due !!??
Secondly, there was an issue raised about me even praying with a very general and neutral nuance... such as Jesus (PBUH) prayed for his followers who had gone astray:
*“If you punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them, You are the Wise” (Al-Ma’idah: 118) *
Whats wrong with saying a prayer like that for a non-Muslim? ??
The intolerant right wingers seem to be smoking something strange because either the message is not sinking into their thick skulls or they are just being antagonistic for no reason.
The pope was good in charity and promoting peace how many times this message needs to be posted i dont know what you want us to start crying or something the guy is dead nothing else allah(swt) will deal with him now end of.
This should clear any doubts regarding the "good deeds" of non-believers ...
8. The Cave :
Say: "Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-
"Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?"
They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight.
for the last one, I asked you a question earlier, never got any answer..
as for
“May God reward the pope for the good he has done” - this was the statement I made in the General forum which brought about this whole discussion
Forgiveness or no forgiveness is in God’s own hand - all I’m doing is giving credit where its due !!??<<<
giving credit where it’s due? where is it due when Quran categorically tells us not in one place but more than 4 (as I recall) places that credit is no more due as all the deeds bear no fruit.
Frankly speaking, I don't feel much for the Pope and his death... except that he was an old man, who died in his bed. Alright. So, you won't see me at his memorial services or offering prayers and so on for the Pope.
However, I am still not sure I understand the thought process of those who go out of their way to insult or post redicule about a dead man. I would imagine common courtesy should be the basic criteria that makes us human beings.
The whole point was making a dua for a person who was not a muslim whether it is allowed or not. Quran and ahaadeeth speak in this matter then why should not we discuss the issue?
Ofcourse, you can chose NOT to make dua for someone you don't want to make dua for, thats fine, and I am not talking about what you are saying. I am talking of those who are deliberately going out of their way to malign a dead man.
but the fact remains that the dua which isn’t allowed is that of forgiveness, but nowhere does it say not to pray in a neutral way and ask for reward when its due.
As far as whether efforts bear fruits or not, I am no one to decide that - let my God decide that… I for one commend this man who stood up for mankind including Muslims even when our own people (read, the Arab world) were too coward to oppose the States. That in my opinion makes this guy deserve every bit of recognition and tribute.
Yes, this thread has lived its useful life - we’re not gonna get anywhere other than a deadlock. Mods can close it if they deem fit.
so the Quranic references bear no understanding? God has decided in the Book already and informed us about it too. It’s only if we can understand it rather than going to say I can’t understand only God knows.
