There are different views on mortgage, loans, interest. Some will say that interest is okay if you're in a kuffar land, others will disagree. However, MOST scholars will agree that paying and accepting interest/usury/riba is haraam. There are different schools of thoughts and not everyone interprets the Qur'an literally. I have even heard that according to the Hanafi school of thought, if a muslim lives in a non-Islamic country, then he/she can charge interest to non-muslims as long as the money benefits muslims. I may be wrong, but this is what I have heard.
Good for those who were able to buy homes without taking a mortage or loan of any kind. They perhaps took the route with more blessings. For those who had to buy things by taking a loan, it is their issue and their "sin"- they know why they had to and Allah will judge them. It could be to pay medical bills, pay for kids, starting a business, etc. (the list is long for possible reasons). I personally, have HUGE student loans. Is it my sin? Maybe. I've been taking these loans for education to make something of myself... yes, the means to do so may be sinful. But I'd rather have huge loans and pay interest than make my elderly parents pay for it so that they can stress and have no retirement savings. While I'd love to support my parents in old age, it will take me a long time to make money... I'm being realistic, so I'm taking the loans upon myself.
As far as mortgage being a sign of a man- perhaps it has to do with credit score? Some think a high credit score is something to brag about or is "manly"- because one can assume that the guy is being responsible and paying his bills. I don't know why uncles would openly talk about that.
^ sure, many people can't take the road of leading interest free life in the US...No denying that...but you shouldn't sit there and try to justify something like that that's So clearly in Quran and hadithes. It's really hard to make loop holes out of this matter. No one's gonna judge..it's a matter between u and Allah for sure..but plz don't go arnd saying that it's OKAY...to make yourself feel better. Just ask for forgiveness... A*llah swt is the most forgiving. *
Same with buying unnecessarly big houses, and cars on interest...you have a wkness, everyone does..there's no reason to just pat your heart and go "All is well, no it's not a sin". Just ask for forgiveness. and feel bad abt, maybe inshallah Allah will give you strength to avoid these things one day.
You know, The bible talks abt interest in the same light.... [Exodus 22:25] "If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury." [Leviticus 25:36] Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee." [Leviticus 25:37] Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase." [Deuteronomy 23:19] Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury: " [Deuteronomy 23:20] Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it."
WHen we make light of matters like these we're no different then any other religion then....All the Quran will be at the end of the day a book of rules and regulations which no one follows because "it can interpreted so many different ways" (what's there to interepret especially when we have hadithes to help us out? ), with no one really following it just has the bible has....
THe bible says dont eat pork... and they say "well it's left for our intrepretation", The bible says "don't make graven images" and they say..."well it's left for our intretpretation" and so on. That's what happen when you make excuses for yourself, instead of just asking for for forgiveness.
Also, lets remember the age old adage..when you strive for something for Allah like an interest free life, Allah will open doors for you, and make that easy for you. For the people with strong Iman that is true for them...
And lets remember the hadith, "There was not a Prophet whom Allah sent berfore me, but he had disciples and companions from among his people. They follow his way (Sunnah) and obey his orders. After that, later generations come. They would claim to do what they do not do. They would do what they were not ordered to do. Whoever struggles against them with his hand, is a believer. Whoever struggles against them with his tongue, is a believer. Whoever rejects them with his heart, is a believer. There is no Iman left after this, even the weight of a mustard seed." [Muslim]
On the authority of Abu Saeed Al-Khurdari, who said: I heard the messenger of Allah say:
"Whosoever of you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart; and that is the weakest of faith."
related by Muslim.
Iman requires rejecting sin. The rejection can be practiced by using physical strength, with the tongue or at least in the heart (those with WEAKEST of faith).
I said that MOST scholars agree that interest/usury/riba is HARAAM. I wasn’t justifying my student loans so that it wouldn’t be a sin, nor did I say it was “OKAY.” If I said it’s “OKAY” I would say something bogus, that interest is halal I said that student loans is a sinful means to finish my education, however, I know why I am pursuing that route of sin. If my education may give my parents debt, I’d rather happily take that debt upon myself. If my education will stress and hurt my parents’ health, once again, I’d happily take it upon myself, even if it means that I’m hurting my own afterlife. I’d much rather hurt my own afterlife than lose my parents early or have them commit a sin. I hope and pray that my intentions will reduce my sin. This does not mean that it’s OKAY, because I’m still acknowledging that it’s a sin- big or small. If my faith is weak when it comes to riba, then so be it. I’m happy that I’m stronger in other areas like being very honest and not hurting others, Alhamdulillah, and I hope inshAllah it will become stronger in areas which I am weak in. And I ALWAYS ask for forgiveness for all of my sins in every prayer.
Brother, you speak like fatwa shopping is a bad thing, but do you forget that they are nonbinding? She has every right to seek out a fatwa from a source that she feels comfortable with.
As for Surah Baqarah, can you please identify *exactly where *the paying of interest (usury/riba) is considered haram? I am not talking about taking of interest (usury/riba). I am not here to create a dispute but to request the source which states that giving money in interest is haram.
and if you if you want a million dollar house, you can save $500K each year, and live off 200K and in two years youll have a million dollars!Math cant be more simple. Simple addition.
You're calculations are way too simple.
I am not going to talk numbers but I can tell you that when I was looking to buy my condo, the location/price/timing was perfect but I didn't have the cashflow (first yr Banker) to put down a decent downpayment, so I had to take a mortgage. I was able to pay off my place in 2 years thanks to the bonuses, but I can tell you that it's not so easy for many people who have families/significant others.
You are just starting out in your career, so it's easy to throw out numbers and how much you will save, but when it comes to reality, that's a different matter. After a few years, I was able to purchase few investment properties using straight cash, but I wouldn't consider that to be a normal experience for most people. So I wouldn't condemn those who are looking to buy a house to provide shelter for their loved ones.
I am not going to talk numbers but I can tell you that when I was looking to buy my condo, the location/price/timing was perfect but I didn't have the cashflow (first yr Banker) to put down a decent downpayment, so I had to take a mortgage. I was able to pay off my place in 2 years thanks to the bonuses, but I can tell you that it's not so easy for many people who have families/significant others.
You are just starting out in your career, so it's easy to throw out numbers and how much you will save, but when it comes to reality, that's a different matter. After a few years, I was able to purchase few investment properties using straight cash, bu*t I wouldn't consider that to be a normal experience for most people. So I wouldn't condemn those who are looking to buy a house to provide shelter for their loved ones.*
I fully agree...and Im not condemning...many ppl have their majoboori's and it's really between them and ALlah...but there's also no reason to deny what's in Quran and hadithes...which how this discussion first began-when PCG challenged me to find an ayah in Quran to that said it's okay to be loanee of interest based loan, just not a loaner.....And a hypothetical vascular surgeon earning 700K was presented and PCG felt that it was okay for him to take out a mortgage, and blah blah, and that was in response to that discussion.
They provide many ayahs, and hadithes that forbids not only the loaner, and loanee, but even the ones that oversee this process. Straight from the Quran and hadithes.
I fully agree...and Im not condemning...many ppl have their majoboori's and it's really between them and ALlah...but there's also no reason what's in Quran and hadithes...which how this discussion first began-when PCG challenged me to find an ayah in Quran to that said it's okay to be loanee of interest based loan, just not a loaner.....And a hypothetical vascular surgeon earning 700K was presented and PCG felt that it was okay for him to take out a mortgage, and blah blah, and that was in response to that discussion.
No worries, sister. Your heart is in the right place.
I believe in Islam because it is the most perfect way of life on earth. Just to give you an example of what I am talking about: After I paid off my mortgage, a sense of relief lifted my spirits and made me feel a lot more secure in life. Even though I am doing well, Alhamdolilah, you never know when you might be without a job or fall in hard times. Right now I am comforted by the fact that my place is my own. So the Islamic theory behind buying what you can afford is definitely sound.
No worries, sister. Your heart is in the right place.
I believe in Islam because it is the most perfect way of life on earth. Just to give you an example of what I am talking about: **After I paid off my mortgage, a sense of relief lifted my spirits and made me feel a lot more secure in life. **Even though I am doing well, Alhamdolilah, you never know when you might be without a job or fall in hard times. Right now I am comforted by the fact that my place is my own. So the Islamic theory behind buying what you can afford is definitely sound.
:) ! Mashallah!!! I hear many ppl say that after their done paying off their loans! Good for you!
I mean "you" colloquialy. No necessariy you. No explanation needed...like I said...It's b/t you and Allah.
When you use a "^" below my post and use "you"- duh, I'm going to think you're referring to me and accusing me of justifying interest as not sinful. I only wanted to point out possible reasons why people take out loans, even if it is a sin. I don't think everyone enjoys taking about a loan and paying interest.
:k: Exactly. And say that vascular surgeon or any type of doctor or professional for that matter makes money, they’re not going to get their entire year’s salary on the first day of their job. They still have to save up money, pay for a car, deal with student loans, food, clothing, take care of a spouse, children, parents, siblings, etc. Pay for say a child’s private school education (maybe an Islamic school). The point is, things add up and it is very difficult. While not taking out a mortgage or loan is ideal, it’s not always possible or realistic.
Since when did OWNING property become a fundamental right? SHELTER yes, but you do not need to BUY a house to have shelter. Millions of people around the world live perfectly happy, normal lives while renting their apartment/house. They dont walk around with broken down lives in abject misery simply because their “fundamental right” to own property has not been fulfilled!
The verses in the Quran that warn against dealings in Riba are SO strong and severe, I dont know how anyone can pretend to take them lightly
O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains [due to you] of interest, if you should be believers. And if you do not, then be informed of a war [against you] from Allah and His Messenger. [2:278-279]
Can you even imagine being in a war against your fellow man in this world? None of us would want that for ourselves or our family. Can we then even begin to imagine being in WAR with Allah and His Messenger???
Saving to buy a house riba-free is not always easy. But I firmly believe without a shadow of doubt, that if you are sincere in loving and obeying Allah, and you sacrifice something for His sake, He will never let it go unrewarded and if you leave something haraam for Him, He will always replace it with something better!
those times were different and may be a complete ban on interest was required. Nowadays we have laws controlling interest rates in most parts, so it shouldn't be an issue.
Ofcourse the credit card companies took full advantage of loopholes and these were fixed last month I think
I thought I would add a link to this article. It shows the growing recogition by banks and FIs in the west that are willing to cater to Muslim clients by introducing product offerings that are compliant with Sharia law requirements. While there is an interest to have such options available, it seems that there’s been limited success thus far. Who knows what the future holds.
I said that student loans is a sinful means to finish my education, however, I know why I am pursuing that route of sin. If my education may give my parents debt, I’d rather happily take that debt upon myself. If my education will stress and hurt my parents’ health, once again, I’d happily take it upon myself, even if it means that I’m hurting my own afterlife. I’d much rather hurt my own afterlife than lose my parents early or have them commit a sin. I hope and pray that my intentions will reduce my sin. This does not mean that it’s OKAY, because I’m still acknowledging that it’s a sin- big or small. If my faith is weak when it comes to riba, then so be it. I’m happy that I’m stronger in other areas like being very honest and not hurting others, Alhamdulillah, and I hope inshAllah it will become stronger in areas which I am weak in. And I ALWAYS ask for forgiveness for all of my sins in every prayer.
