More questions about Islam

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[quote]
Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
I actually am a Muslim but I cannot believe Allah mian would permit the killing of people, even if they have sinned.
[/quote]

One of the qualititative names of Allah is Qahaar (i.e. qehr Dalnay wala) and another name is Ghafaar (i.e. maghfirat denay wala). It is upto Allah to decide whether he wants to forgive or he wants to punish the individual. Allah can forgive most of the sins but the rights of the people cannot be forgiven and he would defnitely be asked about those responsibilities like rights of the parents, rights of wife, rights of kids, rights of neighbours and so on.

[quote]
Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
Are you saying, then, that killing people is a humane act? That they should be punished because they committed a crime?

There would be no other way to spread the message that "killing" really hurts and a BIG crime.

Actually, in Islamic teachings, its upto victim's family to decide if the murderer should be killed or demand money as punishment.

To kill a murderer because the murderer killed would be to justify the murderer's actions, because the murderer killed too. What makes the killer of the murderer different from the murderer? Simply the fact that the murderer killed first.

How would you feel if someone murders member of your family and roams around freely? Second 'murderer' will not be considered as murderer if that is acheived through 'court of law'.

This is revenge, this is irrational.
Revenge would be when victim's family/friend/relative rise and kill the murderer.

If you follow Islam, 'qisas n diyat' law, 'killing for killing' may be avoided actually.

.......

......
If Allah asks me to kill a criminal (but being a girl, I wouldn't get divine messages, of course, you forgot that)

No, I didn't forget that. When I asked you that question, I assumed that you beleive in Quran as 'Divine Revelation'. In Quran Allah asked for adulterers to be killed.

I will not because that is wrong.

Yes, of course you have a choice of not following Allah's commands, but its upto you to ignore Allah and indirectly ask for HIS anger.

*Do you understand the value of human life?
*

Do you understand more than Allah? Do you know human psychology more than the one who actually designed us?

Our body, our mind, our spirit, are all that we have in this world.

No. There is something called 'beleif', 'faith' which you can acquire and is more valuable than a BAD body, mind or spirit.

** Material possessions come and go, but the body, or a form of it anyway, is there with us as long as we live. It is inconcievable to imagine a life after this one. This, term papers, fights, our love life, are all that seem to matter, how can we deny somebody this, even if they did sin?
How can we justify the death of someone else, even if he is a cold-hearted person? It's wrong to kill, I would never do it, even if I had the power to do it, like if my husband ever cheated on me.**

Can you imagine your family slaughtered? How would you behave? May be you have a stone-heart and you'd say 'its okay, they all had to die one day'..... but majority of human-being does not have stone-heart, they have emotions, they have dependency, they have feelings, they have 'love' for each other etc. Many families have only one bread winner, how would they feel if their bread winner is killed? To them, that would be the end of the world.

I am not trying to alter an existing religion. But killing is wrong and no one can convince me otherwise. Humans should not have the right to take another's life, only Allah should, and when Allah does so, He does it because he sees fit.

How can YOU say about Allah? When Allah ordered us to give worldly part of punishment to criminals of society, why do you want to avoid being punished? why do you want to save criminals of society? why do you want to spread chaos in society?

My mother died when I was a kid, I know what death is like, don't tell me its justified in any circumstance, ok, because it isn't.

Everybody is bound to die in this world. We are talking about 'killing'. How would have you felt if she was murdered now right in front of you?

As for something wrong in the marriage, I meant that either partner may not have been happy. There may have been abuse, hurt, lack of intimacy and tenderness, whatever, the husband may have been an alcoholic, the wife may have been insane.

I'm not following you here, I don't know what you are talking about.
[/quote]


We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[quote]
Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
**

If Allah asks me to kill a criminal (but being a girl, I wouldn't get divine messages, of course, you forgot that), I will not because that is wrong.
**
first of all, hazrat maryam AS got the message of allah sent by his angels..Allah only talked to moses AS,...so yes girls can get divine messages...secondly..yes every one commits sins and sins are actually disobeying messages and commands of allah, so every one some times fails to follow his commands..but there are two categories of that..one is that you feel sorry for not following his command and try to follow it..other just dont care about the commands...u seem to be in the latter category..and this is a kufr to boast about not following allah's commands.....and unless you repent during life, it probably will never be forgiven because it is a form of shirk because you show arrogance towards allah
** Do you understand the value of human life? Our body, our mind, our spirit, are all that we have in this world. Material possessions come and go, but the body, or a form of it anyway, is there with us as long as we live. It is inconcievable to imagine a life after this one.
**
ok, now you are doubting the existance of the life after death?? i am sorry to say buddy, but this believe is an ESSENTIAL believe in islam..kinda feel sorry for u...NOT...u will go where allah wants you to go..it can be heaven it can be hell (i think you can notice that i am not the kind of person who constantly gives out fatwa of hell or heaven to every one..because i know only allah knows your destiny and no one regardless of his/her prayers or worships can ever say that so and so will go to hell or heaven, so i am not the un educated mullah who knows nothing about islam but thinks he knows all of it)....its upto him...non of my business..nor do i care...

[/quote]

Thanks for reminding

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

… I forgot to mention Hazrat Maryam AH…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frown.gif


We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?

  1. “Beating” ones wife
    The translation about this word is without thy nyance that exists in tha arabic language. It is meant that you physically hold her, stop her, hit her lightly, leaving no marks or causing pain at all. This is a symbolic act in its right meaning. However, one should understand the duty man has towards the family and the woman being their economic support, providing them with pshyical and psycological comfort. If he neglects his duties towards his wife, the wife may ask for Seperation or even a divorce. This last resort of touching her physically in a rebuking manner is in other words not something that can be done just like that. Women have a high status in Islam. If you really are keen towards learning about Islam you will find that out soon.
    I would recommend you to surf sites on the internet for more comprehensive answers: www.islam.org www.themodernreligion.com www.islam-qa.com www.understanding-islam.com

  2. Starving? Reference please.

Sarah:
If God has legitimezed executions of murderers for instance, then who are you to say anything else? How come you beleive that God is wrong when He says so? Are you smarter than God? The creater himself? Are you more intelligent and reflective than Allah and his infinite wisdom? As a muslim you whould without a doubt accepts His words immediately, and then strive to understand them for the sake of knowledge.

[quote]
Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
**Are you saying, then, that killing people is a humane act? That they should be punished because they committed a crime? To kill a murderer because the murderer killed would be to justify the murderer's actions, because the murderer killed too. What makes the killer of the murderer different from the murderer? Simply the fact that the murderer killed first. This is revenge, this is irrational.

As for who defines what humane is and is not, I simply know this that we all have our own versions but probably highest on the list is that we should not kill, thus that is why kill the murderer, because he violated this basic human right, to live.

If Allah asks me to kill a criminal (but being a girl, I wouldn't get divine messages, of course, you forgot that), I will not because that is wrong. Do you understand the value of human life? Our body, our mind, our spirit, are all that we have in this world. Material possessions come and go, but the body, or a form of it anyway, is there with us as long as we live. It is inconcievable to imagine a life after this one. This, term papers, fights, our love life, are all that seem to matter, how can we deny somebody this, even if they did sin? How can we justify the death of someone else, even if he is a cold-hearted person? It's wrong to kill, I would never do it, even if I had the power to do it, like if my husband ever cheated on me.

I am not trying to alter an existing religion. But killing is wrong and no one can convince me otherwise. Humans should not have the right to take another's life, only Allah should, and when Allah does so, He does it because he sees fit.

My mother died when I was a kid, I know what death is like, don't tell me its justified in any circumstance, ok, because it isn't.

As for something wrong in the marriage, I meant that either partner may not have been happy. There may have been abuse, hurt, lack of intimacy and tenderness, whatever, the husband may have been an alcoholic, the wife may have been insane.**
[/quote]

So in what your saying, GOD shouldnt give you life and then take it away, in your philosophy even that sould be deemed incorrect.


Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'

.

.

.

murderers should be used for biological, pharmaceutical and other assorted scientific experimentation

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

I believe the discussion wandered away from the topic.

ThePriest has asked certain questions that are always the focal point of people who are unaware of the religion. As one of the brothers pointed out the treatment is mentioned in ayah 4:34 and is meant for women who are disloyal and have ill-conduct.

Now is it unfair to (in that order) admonish, refuse to share the bed and (as a last resort) beat them with a miswak? The ayah does not say anything about starving them. And the beating is said to be lightly, but in a hadeeth it is mentioned with a miswak. For those who do not know what a miswak is, it is the twig used to clean the teeth.

As for Sarah
The Islamic Law is complete in the Qur'an and Sunnah. Anybody who does not agree with even a single ayah, is out of the folds of Islam. So you have to be very careful in expressing your feelings. We are not discussing the fashion or the weather. We are discussing the revealed religion which is authored by none other than your Creator.

[quote]
Originally posted by FactFinder:
I believe the discussion wandered away from the topic.
........

[/quote]

That is always the case here... may be thats one of the purposes of a forum, or may be we don't know how we should use the forum.

welcome to the GUPSHUP


We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

Thank you all for your input. I am grateful.
I understands that there are different interpretations of the quran and as with all interpretations things can become subject to the authors opinion than actual fact of what is written. I have found 3 differnet interpretations of the quran so far. they vary from line to line. so if someon can recomend a certain one that is the closest to the truth than please do

may be thats one of the purposes of a forum, or may be we don't know how we should use the forum.

I know, people tend to go on a tangent. But when a person seeking knowledge asks a straightforward question, we should give him/her a direct response. When we start going into trivialities, we defeat the purpose of da'awa. In this xase for instance, the divergence was provided by SS. She posted something totally irrelevant and everybody forgot the original question and started replying to her.

Thanks for the welcome note.

I understands that there are different interpretations of the quran and as with all interpretations things can become subject to the authors opinion than actual fact of what is written. I have found 3 differnet interpretations of the quran so far. they vary from line to line. so if someon can recomend a certain one that is the closest to the truth than please do**
[/QUOTE]


There is only one Qur’an, which is in Arabic. Every Muslim will confirm this fact.

The translations are different as they are based on the translators comprehension and then choice of words. They cannot be considered as interpretations per se.

The most widely read simple translation in English is the one by Abdullah Yousuf Ali. The flow of sentences and the index are excelent.

There are some available on the web. www.islamicity.com is the one I use. You can search by topic or by ayah, if you know the reference.

[This message has been edited by FactFinder (edited November 08, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by FactFinder (edited November 08, 2001).]

Quran 9:5
"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

is above verses really appear in quran
or intrepreted wrongly.
is idolator literally means idol-worshipper
or other meaning to it.

[quote]
and (as a last resort) beat them with a miswak?
[/quote]

As pointed out in another thread, 'idhrib' in this ayat means 'depart' and not 'beat'. But the male dominant society of 'scholars' will love to treat it as 'beat' cuz then it will be their divine right to subjugate women.

Any reasonable person with or without a religion would have serious reservations about following a faith that commands men to 'beat up' their wives.


These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?(45:6)

[quote]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
**
Any reasonable person with or without a religion would have serious reservations about following a faith that commands men to 'beat up' their wives.

**
[/quote]

I agree

rvikz,

Yes this appears and proceeds the following:

quote not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for God loveth the righteous.(9:4)
[/quote]

The ayat has a context in Islamic History. Therefore the mention of some specific incidents that transpired back then.

The Arabic word used is "Mushrikeen" which is for 'idol-worshippers'. Yusufali transtaltes it as "Pagans".

Qur'an mentions Christians, Jews and Sabeans as "Nasara", "Yahood" and "Sabayeen".


These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?(45:6)

FactFinder If there is only one true Quran and it is in Arabic then I guess that I wasnt meant to get the full message that Allah intended? Did God say something somewhere in history that excluded one people or another? Is he the God of all people or of just people who can read Arabic?