Re: Morals without God
^ I would assume it would, as such individuals may not have any strict guidelines (if at all any) to abide by. If they feel okay and good about it, perhaps it's a good moral at least in their eyes.
Re: Morals without God
Ahmadjee…The concept of Sawab is indeed a very selfish one and rightly so…
On Judgment Day when the earth is rolled up and the mountains turn to cotton balls, mothers will abort and none will recognize the other…Father not son and child not mother…
The act of Sawab is done for the pleasure of Allah :swt:...
I remember in one of my philosophy class, my Jewish teacher and me got into an argument about altruism...
So why would you help others? If it makes you feel good, isn’t that selfish? Too make a name for yourself? To feel good at the expense of others?
That is why, Allah :swt: has placed the reward of altruistic act (serving others) as so high on the list of things to do...Huqooq of neighbours, society, parents, kids...So that altruism becomes second nature for a Muslim...
But Muslims are departing from Islam hence that second nature has been replaced by worldly desires...
So, if you are altruistic, one is not only a good Muslim but liked in the eyes of Allah :swt:...
And in Islam, even a smile is altruism and charity...
Since all must die and face Allah :swt:, why not face Him after having helped His creatures? He likes that...He likes that a lot...
So, that is why it is said, that when a charity is done with the right hand, the left should not know about it...
Hence you can be Robin Hood and still earn the pleasure of Allah :swt:...
Re: Morals without God
a person can never have good morals without believing in ALLAH....look these western people,their religion has become weak..they have almost no believe on GOD and thts y they do many sins,destroying all the morals,on the name of civilization and blah...
Re: Morals without God
I strongly disagree.
The instinct and ability to recognise good and bad are put in human nature by Allah. Man on his own does not know it. Refer to the Book of Genesis and creation of Adam in Bible and creation of man in
Quran in Chapter 1 (Al-Baqarah).
[Yusufali 2:31] And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: “Tell me the names of these if ye are right.”
[Yusufali 2:32] They said: “Glory to Thee, of knowledge We have none, save what Thou Hast taught us: In truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom.”
[Yusufali 2:33] He said: “O Adam! Tell them their names.” When he had told them, Allah said: “Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of heaven and earth, and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?”
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Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Genesis: Chapter2, verse 7:
Bible, Revised Standard Edition
Re: Morals without God
They do.
They never tell how many they have killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palastaine etc etc. If lets say 3,000 people died in WTC Attacks, this illegitmate war on Afghanistan and Iraq has killed countless people. What about sanctions on Iraq where 500,000 kids died of Hunger. This recent war in Iraq has killed 150,000 poeple according to one rough estimate. What about Afghanistan, what about Those atomic bomb blast on Japan, what about those WWI and WWII, what about the cold wars, what about the Palastine. If you’d read the statistics of how many have been killed by those you support, you’d start spitting on them. What they have been doing in the Middle East, they never tell their own faults, just tell the faults of the other party and project themselves as innocent.
Compare the two societies from all angles, not just one angle shown in the media.
They give life to the people which is worsre than death a life devoid of morals, ethics, human caring, sympathy and so on.
Re: Morals without God
you need belief in God first to make the above argument valid. a person who doesnt believe in God wouldnt think much of it.
Re: Morals without God
^ That is why I have quoted both Quran and Bible to show that every human is linked to Allah and in what manner.
Re: Morals without God
but why would an atheist care about what the bible or quran says?
Re: Morals without God
^ Yeh bhi theek hai,
BTW, such questions of "morals without religion" are only raised by these people..... yeah I agree to you.
Re: Morals without God
hai hai !!!! are you calling ahmadjee an atheist???????? ;)
Re: Morals without God
Alright ahmadjee! you have officially been labeled 
Re: Morals without God
^ Noop, don't mis-interpret this. I have not directed this comment on him. He might have had asked it for the sake of discussion that does not necessarily make him an "Atheist"
Rather this is a fashion these days of adopting this notion of Morals but no religion. I have just commented on this notion, not on Ahmadjee.
Re: Morals without God
Lajjo, your rambling, which is much appreciated doesn't answer the core question, why one needs God to have morals. You go at tangents.
Lahore 981, You and I can believe that the sense of empathy and sympathy are given to us by God but that is a belief. It doesn't prove that a belief in God is necessary to feel empathetic towards someone.
Re: Morals without God
Appreciate your appreciation Ahmadjee...
But I think Mr. Mills answers your question in detail...
If it is your state of nature to be an artist or a writer, you will strive to be that...If it is your nature to be a rapist and plunderer, you will strive to be that...Everyone has different morals...Religion is a guiding force to veer that nature to something nobler...Both for the artist and the rapist and lays down the laws for all and sundry to be judged upon those laws of morality...
The laws of God equalize morality on every level...Weak, strong, rich, poor, white black e.t.c....
While you may have good morals that dictate your life but you may be weak...I may not have morals but be strong...Who will protect you from me?
Hence the need for a universal law of morality which will unite other weak ones like you to confront my immorality which seeks to murder, steal and rob from you...
There...No more ramblings...I desist in peace...
Re: Morals without God
So, in a nutshell Lajjo, your argument is that to justify the injustices of our lives we are compelled to believe in God. And as far as morality is concerned, you argue that we are born with some values without our consent and on random and thus to equalize this chaos of innate values, a belief in a moral God who is Just in the most absolute sense is required and therefore, He alone can dictate what is moral and what isn't. Right?
Re: Morals without God
^^
Ahmadjee, if you are an atheist and you see a man hungry, it would be your conscience that would tell you to feed that man...Not God...
But not all are born with a good conscience...Some would pass by that man without giving him a second glance...
God dictates that you feed the hungry...So, God in this case is actually making sure that the conscienceless person is forced to at least look at that hungry man...
But, morality can not be dictated, hence it would depend upon whether the guy feeds the hungry man or not...
Re: Morals without God
So who gives us the values we are born with?
And doesn't your claim that some of us are born with bad/incomplete moral code goes against that very common belief that every child is born a Muslim?
Last but not least, your argument seem to suggest that a person can be moral without belief in God, because he was born with it.
Re: Morals without God
**017.009 Verily this Qur’an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;
042.017 It is Allah Who has sent down the Book in Truth, and the Balance (by which to weigh conduct). And what will make thee realise that perhaps the Hour is close at hand?
042.052 And thus have We, by Our Command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and what was Faith; but We have made the (Qur’an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will; and verily thou dost guide (men) to the Straight Way,-**
Ahmadjee…There is a verse which I am not familiar with (and searching) which states that even if Allah :swt: had not sent down any book, he has placed in our hearts something which eventually would have guided us to good…(Take this with a huge helping of salt as this was narrated to me by someone, and as yet is still unsubstantiated by me but working on it…)
Every child is indeed a Muslim…But what moral laws will you apply on a baby? Wetting his diapers?
Yes…I do suggest that a man can be moral without belief in God…I have a couple of atheists in my family and they are good people…But I don’t think it has anything to do with morals…It is their nature…
And you know nature differs from person to person…
Re: Morals without God
It’s the Tafseer of word **Ool-ul-Albaab **.. ref. Surah Aal-e-Imran ayah 190-195