Can negative influences in terms of friends, the general people around have such a profound impact on someone? Does parents’ ‘tarbyat’ have no role at all once someone isnt under their supervision or are on their own?
I ask this coz I am quite upset by someone I know during my middle and high school who was a regular nice girl with very decent and moderately religious parents. I had never seen her inappropriately dressed up or saying anything outrageous. And now after like almost 10 years - we meet on facebook again ! and she has just completely transformed … wears the skimpiest clothes ever, apparently lives with her gora boyfriend and openly talks of the relationship, the living together part, drinking, partying without any regret and no strings attached.
So why do people change?! Is morality just lack of opportunity or immorality is just extreme vulnerability ?
If you had lived alone and MashaAllah kept yourself on the right path ..how did you manage to protect yourself in moderation and not go overboard on either way - in terms of our cultural as well as religious values !
so, finally, SHAITAAN has taken over her! :( sad!!!
isii liye, buzurgoN kaa kahnaa hai k burii soHbat se bach ke rahnaa chaahiye...vo Khud bhii Doobte haiN aur duusroN ko bhii le Doobte haiN...soHbat kaa asar yaqeenan hotaa hai :(
ive lived alone for 5 years away from parents going home most weekends though and i think due to my fear of god and up most respect for my parents especially my dad i have stayed reasonably ok.
My friends at uni are a mixed bunch, some very religious and some who are like the girl you have described, and i dont feel pressurised by anyone to do anything or behave a certain way.
she's just one bad example ..am sure a lot of ppl have moved out lived on their own for a long time yet are practising Muslims and equally connected to their country and culture !
some people say that parents' influence and raising their children is the strongest factor and it never goes astray ...
while others say that some peole despite having such a religious atmosphere in their homes once if given opportunity go overboard..
like for instance i have heard of (very few) decent well educated people from pakistan who would come here on a short visit and be a total drunk junkie ..just because 'phir wapis ja ker kahan mauka milna hai'
so log sirf ache hain kyun k un k sar pe danda hai ? doesn't conscience exist at all ? :)
No, it isn't just lack of opportunity. There are plenty of people who would stick to what they consider right regardless of plenty of opportunities. I am sorry this woman's actions make you question your belief in people's sense of morality.
Human beings are the only creation of Allah who's behavior can change overnight or over a period of time for no apparent reason.
Morality , religion , upbringing , peer pressure , culture , society , social circle can play a part to some extent in some cases too.
No, it isn't just lack of opportunity. There are plenty of people who would stick to what they consider right regardless of plenty of opportunities. I am sorry this woman's actions make you question your belief in people's sense of morality.
Yes in my earlier posts too I said there are both kinds of ppl. My qs is how can one protect themselves in front of negative influences. Just want to hear experiences. If nothing they can motivate us to be better ppl IA. No harm in that i guess.:)
This is a philosophy thread to me so here is the morality angle ... true morality is the choice one undertakes to conform to his/her principles when there is no fear of consequence ... So it may be that when you saw this girl in her youth that she was merely afraid of being ridiculed, caught, told off by parents, disowned, etc ... If ever in such a person those fears go away then there is nothing to stop them doing what they want ... Now often doing what a person wants can depend on environment and depend on how prone they are to the shaitanic whispers ... it can often be a gradual process so if it has been a before and after situation for you it may not have been so sudden for her - she may have gradually moved in to that way of being. Gradual drift is not detectable to the person and is easier to justify, but it often results from being in the wrong company for a long time.
Rule number 1 of staying on the right line is to disassociate with bad company and associate with good company ... because even when you fault then your company will correct it ... however in the reverse situation when you fault the company will encourage it by praise or copy it and worse still if you do good they will shun it.
However just as a person can go off the rails with the Mercy of Allah (SWT) they can come back on ... if she was religious then the seeds are sowed it may take a bit of time for her to realise ... but it may not surface at all ... As long as you use this as a sign to reflect then you can make her life a lesson for you to learn yourself and that is ultimately the benefit you can take from this situation ... If you feel up to it ... then you can try to bring her back using subtle wisdom.
I have a friend to does investigations on retail fraud and he mentioned the 80 20 20 rule of theft which I think can also be applied to morality....the rule being that 20 % of people will steal (compromise morals) no matter what, 20 % will never ever steal, and 80% will compromise their morals and stea if the opportunity presemted it self and if they knew they would never get caught.
I observed the same thing happening with a few people. However, it seemed like there were always factors other than 'lack of morality' which lead these individuals into doing things they never ever did before. (I am not saying these are in any valid reasons to go astray..but reasons I am assuming may be behind a person changing and adapting a haram lifestyle). These people were well aware of their morals and even used to say it a few times that this is bad (wtever they are doing but still indulged in it)
Poor family dynamics (even if they lived away from family but witnessed their family break apart in a negative way)
-extremely stressful situations like being cheated on by a loved one or bad break up (I know someone who started drinking a lot after his gf cheated on him and lied about it..really good guy otherwise, i mean very helpful, very kind towards others etc.)
-not being able to establish a career and constant pressure/expectations from family (instead of encouragement and hope)
I personally did some stupid stuff myself after going through a life threatening operation (like 6 months post op..lol) - eg. I smoked occasionally when I knew very well how bad that was for my health and also started to hang out outside a lot (watching movies, arcades etc. instead of praying on time etc.) just bc I felt really bad and it was really hard to accept that my life had completely changed.
Basically my point is that there are definitely other factors that lead people to change completely other than just lack of morality. Some people use haram ways to cope and distract themselves from their stressful situations...(I am not in anyway justifying their acts..lol, I am merely stating what I have observed and have been told)
I have a friend to does investigations on retail fraud and he mentioned the 80 20 20 rule of theft which I think can also be applied to morality....the rule being that 20 % of people will steal (compromise morals) no matter what, 20 % will never ever steal, and 80% will compromise their morals and stea if the opportunity presemted it self and if they knew they would never get caught.
Peace Ramsha
I like your world where things add up to 120% .... :)
I observed the same thing happening with a few people. However, it seemed like there were always factors other than 'lack of morality' which lead these individuals into doing things they never ever did before. (I am not saying these are in any valid reasons to go astray..but reasons I am assuming may be behind a person changing and adapting a haram lifestyle). These people were well aware of their morals and even used to say it a few times that this is bad (wtever they are doing but still indulged in it)
Poor family dynamics (even if they lived away from family but witnessed their family break apart in a negative way)
-extremely stressful situations like being cheated on by a loved one or bad break up (I know someone who started drinking a lot after his gf cheated on him and lied about it..really good guy otherwise, i mean very helpful, very kind towards others etc.)
-not being able to establish a career and constant pressure/expectations from family (instead of encouragement and hope)
I personally did some stupid stuff myself after going through a life threatening operation (like 6 months post op..lol) - eg. I smoked occasionally when I knew very well how bad that was for my health and also started to hang out outside a lot (watching movies, arcades etc. instead of praying on time etc.) just bc I felt really bad and it was really hard to accept that my life had completely changed.
Basically my point is that there are definitely other factors that lead people to change completely other than just lack of morality. Some people use haram ways to cope and distract themselves from their stressful situations...(I am not in anyway justifying their acts..lol, I am merely stating what I have observed and have been told)
Peace HQ
Well it can be argued what you are talking about here is "patience" - and it is a virtue to have patience ... to lose patience would be an immoral thing to do ... so it can be grouped still under the morality banner ... can't it?
true morality is the choice one undertakes to conform to his/her principles when there is no fear of consequence ...
so psyah bhai as you said someone's morality comes to light only when there is no fear of consequences and thus no danda !
So what about people ..you know just average Muslims from good families like me and other GS-ers (Alhamdullilah) who in moments of weakness do something wrong ( like it doesnt have to be a big sin - just a couple of lies, sneaking out without parents permission ) would they be considered immoral or they are generally NICE people who got caught in the wrong moment at the wrong time ?
ive lived alone for 5 years away from parents going home most weekends though and i think due to my fear of god and up most respect for my parents especially my dad i have stayed reasonably ok.
My friends at uni are a mixed bunch, some very religious and some who are like the girl you have described, and i dont feel pressurised by anyone to do anything or behave a certain way.
I guess maturity also plays a role in defining one's own set of morals and helps keeping the peer pressure at the minimal level. And hormones play a role too :p (thus the increasing crime rate, drugs, partying amongst the high school kids and teenagers : UK/London rioting being an example)
I have a friend to does investigations on retail fraud and he mentioned the 80 20 20 rule of theft which I think can also be applied to morality....the rule being that 20 % of people will steal (compromise morals) no matter what, 20 % will never ever steal, and 80% will compromise their morals and stea if the opportunity presemted it self and if they knew they would never get caught.
hehe Ramsha you probably mean the 60 20 20 rule :) but that would be a sad figure - 60 % people have no guarantee of being good if uninhibited :p
It really depends on the way children are brought up by parents. If parents force the kids to behave morally without clearly explaining to them the right and wrong and just forcing them follow what the parents say, the children can go the exact opposite way as soon as they find an opportunity.
Its like forcing your daughter to do hijab without clearly telling her the importance of hijab as advised by Islam and educating her about that. She will most probably quit hijaab as soon as she gets the opportunity because she had not been doing it with her whole heart and willingness.
The parents need to instil the knowledge of right and wrong in their children since the time they are young and then the parents can be sure that the children won't do anything morally wrong when they get the opportunity. Many of young girls and guys who stay away from parents in their teenage and young adulthood continue to behave morally because they have strong grounding. Children who are unable to protect themselves from evil when they are away from their parents don't have strong basis of their moral upbringing and they get on the wrong path as soon as they get the opportunity.
So parents shouldn't just force their children to be on the right path but educate them as to why they should do this and why they shouldn't engage in some haraam acts.